Transferring English

JamisonNeu

JamisonNeu

Mr. Masse
Silver Member
I saw a thread the other day discussing the topic of english transferring to the object ball from the cue ball.

I remembered a shot in which it probably cannot be overlooked. Follow this link and scroll down until you see shot #3 in the Trick and fancy discipline (it is near the top of the page.) This shot can be made by using the transfer of english. The ball labeled as A1 in the diagram is the ball in question.

http://www.artisticpoolplayers.com/shot_program/shot_program_current.php#DISC1

It not only transfers english, but it also nullifies the english that would be gained by the OB's being in contact. What would naturally be left becomes right by using a extreme amount of left hand spin on the cue ball and hitting the cue ball just hard enough to make the lag into the third ball. If you can make the shot with the technique I am trying to describe, you will be a believer.

English does tranfer and this shot is my evidence.

Jamison
 
im sorry, how does that shot proove that side transferres.

not that im dissagreeing, steve davis did this on bbc along the baulk line of a snooker table in slo motion, sith striped balls, you could see it clear as day.

i just fail to see how this shot proves it, a1 will hit the rail straight away and get side from that, you would have to judge it on the small distance between contact and a1 hitting the cushion.

im sure there are better shots to demonstrate this.

ill search for some on youtube

sb..
 
As I understand it:

Spin you put on the cueball transfers a little bit to an object ball. The effect is strongest just after impact and quickly dies off as the object ball starts sliding or rolling. So when you bank a ball with sidespin on the cueball, you can definitely get spin the object ball and affect the bank angle. But the OB has to be pretty close so that the the spin doesn't get a chance to die off. If the object ball is pretty far from the rail and if the ball is banked without much speed, the sidespin on the object ball will go away.

Outside of this, sidespin on an object ball is almost useless... for the most part it's a myth that you can put spin on the object ball to help it make its way into the pocket, like putting outside spin on a thin side pocket cut so that it hits the jaw of the side pocket and then spins off the jaw into the hole.

Forget also about putting spin on a third ball if you think you need to throw a shot in that looks barely possible.

One other thing, the action of an object ball rubbing against the rail adds a little running english to the OB, which may change how it comes off later rails. A perfect example of this is shown in a kinister video: set up a hanger and put the cue ball somewhere near the short rail. Cut in the hanger as thin as humanly possible with kind of medium soft speed. The cue ball will hit the side rail, get a little spin, and actually spin downhill when it hits the rail nearest you. It can even scratch in the same corner as the ball you just thin cut.
 
CreeDo said:
As I understand it:

Spin you put on the cueball transfers a little bit to an object ball. The effect is strongest just after impact and quickly dies off as the object ball starts sliding or rolling. So when you bank a ball with sidespin on the cueball, you can definitely get spin the object ball and affect the bank angle. But the OB has to be pretty close so that the the spin doesn't get a chance to die off. If the object ball is pretty far from the rail and if the ball is banked without much speed, the sidespin on the object ball will go away.

Outside of this, sidespin on an object ball is almost useless... for the most part it's a myth that you can put spin on the object ball to help it make its way into the pocket, like putting outside spin on a thin side pocket cut so that it hits the jaw of the side pocket and then spins off the jaw into the hole.

Forget also about putting spin on a third ball if you think you need to throw a shot in that looks barely possible.

One other thing, the action of an object ball rubbing against the rail adds a little running english to the OB, which may change how it comes off later rails. A perfect example of this is shown in a kinister video: set up a hanger and put the cue ball somewhere near the short rail. Cut in the hanger as thin as humanly possible with kind of medium soft speed. The cue ball will hit the side rail, get a little spin, and actually spin downhill when it hits the rail nearest you. It can even scratch in the same corner as the ball you just thin cut.
Click to expand...


I agree with what you say. But I think the part I bolded is pretty understated. How many times have you broken in 9-ball only to find an object ball spinning fast in place. That's a lot of spin. Where does it come from?
 
CreeDo:
As I understand it:

...the OB has to be pretty close [to the rail] so that the the spin doesn't get a chance to die off.

Forget also about putting spin on a third ball if you think you need to throw a shot in that looks barely possible.

... the action of an object ball rubbing against the rail adds a little running english to the OB...

Mike Page:
I agree with what you say. But I think the part I bolded is pretty understated. How many times have you broken in 9-ball only to find an object ball spinning fast in place. That's a lot of spin. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...

I disagree with two things:

1. I don't see why transferred sidespin should go away any sooner than a small amount of sidespin on the cueball, which remains significant for more than a little distance.

2. You can throw (and transfer spin to) a third ball that's frozen to the first object ball.

And I agree that rails spin the balls a lot, not a little.

pj
chgo
 
mikepage said:
I agree with what you say. But I think the part I bolded is pretty understated. How many times have you broken in 9-ball only to find an object ball spinning fast in place. That's a lot of spin. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...
When the OB is trapped against the rack you can transfer a lot more spin than the standard 2 percent. I assume that accounts for the spin that you see off a break shot occasionally.
 
Endymion said:
When the OB is trapped against the rack you can transfer a lot more spin than the standard 2 percent. I assume that accounts for the spin that you see off a break shot occasionally.
Click to expand...
On a standard shot, it can be much more than 2%. For a full hit, the number goes up to 36% in many cases, according to theory

Jim
 
Here is an easy exercise to see the effects of tranferred sidespin. Line up the cueball and an object ball perfectly perpendicular to the rail. Shoot a stop shot using extreme right english, and a medium soft stroke. It will impart enough left english to send the ob to the left of the cueball. Then do it with extreme left english for the opposite. Use a striped ball, or measles cueball as the ob to really see the effects.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ARqV3PAcV3...cU3URqX3UbPV4UAKu4UAbr3kAcU3kPVW3kOwWzb4uAAW@
 
Last edited:
desert1pocket said:
Here is an easy exercise to see the effects of tranferred sidespin. Line up the cueball and an object ball perfectly perpendicular to the rail. Shoot a stop shot using extreme right english, and a medium soft stroke. It will impart enough left english to send the ob to the left of the cueball. Then do it with extreme left english for the opposite. Use a striped ball, or measles cueball as the ob to really see the effects.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ARqV3PAcV3...cU3URqX3UbPV4UAKu4UAbr3kAcU3kPVW3kOwWzb4uAAW@
Click to expand...
And for the slam dunk proof, use two object balls frozen together (in line with the cue ball). The far OB will throw (and pick up sidespin) as it's rubbed by the near OB, but in the other direction, just as you'd expect.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
And for the slam dunk proof, use two object balls frozen together (in line with the cue ball). The far OB will throw (and pick up sidespin) as it's rubbed by the near OB, but in the other direction, just as you'd expect.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

This effect isn't really the same thing is it?
side spin on the CB is not necessary.
spin is always applied as a result of a non 0 degree collision.
-cOOp
 
side spin on the CB is not necessary.
Click to expand...

I intended to eliminate 0-degree collisions when I said to set them up "in line with the CB" (meaning all in the same straight line).

But in fact I think both effects are caused by the same thing - one ball rubbing across the other. When you shoot straight on and spin the cue ball, the rubbing is caused by the spinning. When you shoot a cut shot without spin, the rubbing is caused by the balls rubbing as they pass by one another. But it's essentially the same thing.

pj
chgo
 
desert1pocket said:
Here is an easy exercise to see the effects of tranferred sidespin. Line up the cueball and an object ball perfectly perpendicular to the rail. Shoot a stop shot using extreme right english, and a medium soft stroke. It will impart enough left english to send the ob to the left of the cueball. Then do it with extreme left english for the opposite. Use a striped ball, or measles cueball as the ob to really see the effects.
Click to expand...
You get more of an effect using about half of maximum english.

Jim
 
mikepage said:
I agree with what you say. But I think the part I bolded is pretty understated. How many times have you broken in 9-ball only to find an object ball spinning fast in place. That's a lot of spin. Where does it come from?
Click to expand...

Very good point!
 
coopdeville said:
.. spin (on the object ball) is always applied as a result of a non 0 degree collision.
-cOOp
Click to expand...
This is false. I don't know where you picked this up, but you really have to ask your source to clarify. I've posted contrary experiments and published contrary columns with examples that nearly anyone can do. Please read them and see where you went wrong.
 
CreeDo said:
... Spin you put on the cueball transfers a little bit to an object ball. The effect is strongest just after impact and quickly dies off as the object ball starts sliding or rolling. So when you bank a ball with sidespin on the cueball, you can definitely get spin the object ball and affect the bank angle. But the OB has to be pretty close so that the the spin doesn't get a chance to die off. ...
Click to expand...
Here is a standard one-pocket shot. I think it doesn't require a Wei diagram. Place an object ball one ball diameter distance from the side cushion on your side of the table and two diamonds from your pocket. Place the cue ball between that ball and your pocket. (Put it where you like in that area.) Bank the object ball one cushion off the head rail back to your pocket. This is an absolutely standard one pocket bank that even B players can do once they understand it. It requires the object ball to hold transferred side over 6 diamonds of travel up to the head rail.

This shot can be made with the cue ball set for either a left or right cut on the object ball. Obviously, one of those will require side-induced rather than contact-induced transferred side spin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top