Tribute cues....

Well here is a Model J tribute I had James White make.. if anyone thinks that this cue lowered the value of any real Palmer J, then you have issues... or just don't know the cue market.

I even called it the Ivory J... and it's one of my favorite tribute cue, ever. It came out so much better than the pics....


JV

Joe

I don't think your cue effects the market for real Js. I think if you mass produced it in lots of 10000 it would, or if you made it with the intention of passing it off as a real J that would clearly effect the market (at least for one collector anyway).

But you are right to point out that I really don't want to go all the way down the road I'm on, but if I may, lets say Paradise or Balabuska was the first to adopt "french" diamond and dot guitar inlays in their designs. If say Ernie or Tad later put that design inside some veneered windows are they innovating or copying? (Not to say either actually pioneered that design but its one I care for).

Thanks

Kevin
 
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I was dealing with Joe Porper, a good friend of mine, who had a distinctive new ring pattern I liked - I commented on how classy it looked.

A few months later I saw an old Joss with the same rings. I said "Joe, I saw your new rings on an old Joss". He looked at me flabbergasted "they copied Ernie!".

I still chuckle about that. I think Ernie and Southwest are two of the most copied current cuemakers. Frank Paradise and Balabushka and Gus Szamboti seemed to have come up with a lot of the most original classic designs.

Chris

Chris

I love that story. Ernie tells one he was at a cue show, sitting at his table, being Ernie Living Legend, and a guy comes up to him with a beautiful Tad (I won't reveal the design feature). The guy shows the cue to Ernie, Ernie looks at it and simply says "that's my design". The guy gets pissed and challenges Ernie to follow him to Tad's booth, now showing the cue to Tad and says, pointing to Ernie, that this a-hole says you copied him (which is not what Ernie said) and Tad looks up in his Tad way and says "I did".

Case closed.

Kevin
 
Chris

I love that story. Ernie tells one he was at a cue show, sitting at his table, being Ernie Living Legend, and a guy comes up to him with a beautiful Tad (I won't reveal the design feature). The guy shows the cue to Ernie, Ernie looks at it and simply says "that's my design". The guy gets pissed and challenges Ernie to follow him to Tad's booth, now showing the cue to Tad and says, pointing to Ernie, that this a-hole says you copied him (which is not what Ernie said) and Tad looks up in his Tad way and says "I did".

Case closed.

Kevin

That's classic K-Brew, thanks for sharing !!!

My take is that TAD's are Tad's, SW's are SW's......

Tribute's are Tribute's.....

As long as they are not passed off as the real thing, or mass produced, I don't have a problem with them.
 
That's classic K-Brew, thanks for sharing !!!

My take is that TAD's are Tad's, SW's are SW's......

Tribute's are Tribute's.....

As long as they are not passed off as the real thing, or mass produced, I don't have a problem with them.

Ernie likes Tad, as close as they have worked in the same field and as long as they have been in competition, both still respect each other and I think that goes a long way towards speaking to the character of both.

Now as far as those butt tributes on the pier in your avatar, I know they are tributes, just to whose butt? In my mind, all butt tributes now shaped are tribute to the Brigitte Bardot butt, not that they are shaped the same but, just that BB was the first time I realized that I liked looking at a woman's rear. Butt Tribute, man.

Kevin
 
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My take on this is that I would buy a Gina-ish Tad rather than a real Gina if it was Tad whose cues I liked ever since I've been into cues and the opposite if that's the case... In a way the original maker is secondary and the maker of my cue is first.
What many fail to recognize is: yes, the french diamond was first used by either Paradise or Balabushka but makers like Tad for example used in so many ways and at such places they are just fantastic!! I won't say they have copied, they have rather lifted that geometric shape and placed it in a very unique and different context.

I think that this entire issue is more complex than just a simple "who copied who" question, what if I have always been fond of Gus's cues but I can only spend a 0 less and so I'll get a JMW. Different materials here and there but the same old barbell and other perfectly Gus-like design elements... I don't think it is like robbing Barry... I have been waiting for such a cue for a long time and now it's here and in that cue I respect my maker's work... but beyond that it is Gus who I consider to be a genius for his barbells and shapes and style, because he truly was a genius. In this case not even an exact copy is a shame - in my opinion....


And meanwhile I don't care for Adam Balabushkas, they are not even close... think of the most basic element, the blank, they are not Spain, nor Gus, not even Davis. As soon as you begin thinking of these, you won't end up with a fake ("replica") Patek or Rolex or whatever, you'll just go and look forward and even if I have a 20" TV at home and poor furniture, I'll still have that cue (or anything else), if that's what I want.
The fact that if you are so driven to get something you'll end up a lot better than that is a different thing.

One last thought: I think that if you respect a living - not unreachable - cuemaker's work you won't get a tribute to one of his fancier cues but get one of his most basic cues... because that just brings so much closer to the real deal. [just my opinion]

I have no problems with tributes, as long as they are up to Chris's definition: a tribute is a tribute to a deceased / retired cuemaker's work and not a living one.

Here's a picture I immediately thought of when I have read what Kevin wrote above:
billschickerniegutierreztadkoharari.jpg
 
My take on this is that I would buy a Gina-ish Tad rather than a real Gina if it was Tad whose cues I liked ever since I've been into cues and the opposite if that's the case... In a way the original maker is secondary and the maker of my cue is first.
What many fail to recognize is: yes, the french diamond was first used by either Paradise or Balabushka but makers like Tad for example used in so many ways and at such places they are just fantastic!! I won't say they have copied, they have rather lifted that geometric shape and placed it in a very unique and different context.

I think that this entire issue is more complex than just a simple "who copied who" question, what if I have always been fond of Gus's cues but I can only spend a 0 less and so I'll get a JMW. Different materials here and there but the same old barbell and other perfectly Gus-like design elements... I don't think it is like robbing Barry... I have been waiting for such a cue for a long time and now it's here and in that cue I respect my maker's work... but beyond that it is Gus who I consider to be a genius for his barbells and shapes and style, because he truly was a genius. In this case not even an exact copy is a shame - in my opinion....


And meanwhile I don't care for Adam Balabushkas, they are not even close... think of the most basic element, the blank, they are not Spain, nor Gus, not even Davis. As soon as you begin thinking of these, you won't end up with a fake ("replica") Patek or Rolex or whatever, you'll just go and look forward and even if I have a 20" TV at home and poor furniture, I'll still have that cue (or anything else), if that's what I want.
The fact that if you are so driven to get something you'll end up a lot better than that is a different thing.

One last thought: I think that if you respect a living - not unreachable - cuemaker's work you won't get a tribute to one of his fancier cues but get one of his most basic cues... because that just brings so much closer to the real deal. [just my opinion]

I have no problems with tributes, as long as they are up to Chris's definition: a tribute is a tribute to a deceased / retired cuemaker's work and not a living one.

Here's a picture I immediately thought of when I have read what Kevin wrote above:
billschickerniegutierreztadkoharari.jpg

Thats a great pic and together there is probably over, or close to, 200 years of cuemaking experience in that photo.

JV
 
Thanks... This picture shows how it can be done - and that what we're talking 'bout is not what we are talking about, but WHO we are talking about!
 
Thanks... This picture shows how it can be done - and that what we're talking 'bout is not what we are talking about, but WHO we are talking about!

Well using your photo and going by the fact i have seen ALOT of cues.. I can say this...

Using that photo alone...

3 of those guys have borrowed design elements from 1 of those guys...

4 of those guys have borrowed from George or Gus, maybe all 5

3 of those guys may have bought blanks from Spain

1 of them definately bought blanks from Gus

all 5 of those guys are borrowed from today...

all 5 make very good cues....

and two of those guys can't be trusted around a bottle of alcohol... :grin:

and all 5 will be in a Hall of Fame at some point...

JV
 
Well using your photo and going by the fact i have seen ALOT of cues.. I can say this...

Using that photo alone...

3 of those guys have borrowed design elements from 1 of those guys...

4 of those guys have borrowed from George or Gus, maybe all 5

3 of those guys may have bought blanks from Spain

1 of them definately bought blanks from Gus

all 5 of those guys are borrowed from today...

all 5 make very good cues....

and two of those guys can't be trusted around a bottle of alcohol... :grin:

and all 5 will be in a Hall of Fame at some point...

JV

Joe

Great post.

Kevin
 
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