Is on and it's the worst thing I have ever seen, what an insult to pool.
Trick Shot Magic
- Thread starter Philthepockets
- Start date
Although I think you are just starting a fake controversy what is the down side from your opinion? Me, it looks like a win all the way around. It obviously is popular or they would not put it on. Players get exposure and a chance to earn some money. The sport gets positive exposure. The players themselves are very personable and project a positive image to the sport. The public seems to love it, I think mores then watching some guy roll a shot into a hole from 6 inches away. Sponsors get to advertise products. It also does bring people to the game or maybe back to the game they played when they were in collage and so on. I was in a sport bar recently and they had it on the TV and people all over the bar were watching and really involved in watching.
Since you brought it up, please explain to me and I mean in detail, how it hurts the sport? I have played in Europe and tournaments there have side interests like trick shots, high run competitions, speed pool and so on. Real happening events compared to the tournaments so commonly held here in the US that for the most part are boring and can't draw flies. There are exceptions but for the most part a pool tournament is a bore and even players won't pay a dime to watch. In my opinion, the trick shots in no way, diminish, demean or insult the beauty and elegance of the sport. If anything they enhance it. By the way, this it all the same stuff I heard years ago about 9-ball. "It will ruin the sport".
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I agree with the OP. I used to think like Macguy until I read a post about the format by Nate -- reporting on what Florian said during his first TSM. According to them (and I have no reason to not believe them). You must select your shots out of a "shot book" with the exception of something like "2" that can be your own shots.
This, for me, is totally retarded because it prevents players like Florian from utilizing his advanced shots for each and every shot. It also gives a huge advantage to guys like Massey and Segal who basically have the shot book "mastered."
Nobody on earth cares about the mundane shots in the shot book. Nobody cares about trick shots in general unless Venom is spinning-back-kicking a ball that's flying in the air and making a ball down table. That's how I see it.
This, for me, is totally retarded because it prevents players like Florian from utilizing his advanced shots for each and every shot. It also gives a huge advantage to guys like Massey and Segal who basically have the shot book "mastered."
Nobody on earth cares about the mundane shots in the shot book. Nobody cares about trick shots in general unless Venom is spinning-back-kicking a ball that's flying in the air and making a ball down table. That's how I see it.
They turned it on at the pool hall, I saw them tapping a ball through chalk obstacles and said "That is stupidest f-ing thing I have ever seen on a pool table" and most of the pool players agreed.
What would the golf equivalent be? No televised US Open or Masters, instead you can only watch guys bounce the ball on their wedges like Tiger Woods did on his commercial?
What would the golf equivalent be? No televised US Open or Masters, instead you can only watch guys bounce the ball on their wedges like Tiger Woods did on his commercial?
I can see both sides of this debate. Not being a fan of trick shots but being a huge fan of Florian means to me that there are two divisions of this type of pool. There are not many in the world that can hang with Florian so by letting him compete against the old schoolers might kill this type of competition for good.
There are millions of people on the planet who are familiar with pool but are not purists of the sport so they watch and enjoy it and this works for the promoters.
Do I think it is bad for the game.....no! Will I sit down and watch a match of trick shots instead of a live stream of ten ball......no. To each his own.
There are millions of people on the planet who are familiar with pool but are not purists of the sport so they watch and enjoy it and this works for the promoters.
Do I think it is bad for the game.....no! Will I sit down and watch a match of trick shots instead of a live stream of ten ball......no. To each his own.
Trick shots are good in very small dozes, to everyone. I don't think it gives pool the credit to the public. Much the same as a slam dunk contest at the NBA all-star game. While its a popular event, if that was all basketball was, it would get old quickly. Basketball fans love seeing a great play, but that doesn't always mean a dunk or a great shot. A great assist, steal or block are just as powerful. Just the same, I'm more impressed with someone controlling the cueball perfectly than a setup trickshot.
I don't necessarily think "trick shot magic" is good for pool or do I think it really hurts it. It's hard to hurt pool anymore.
I'm not trying to knock any of the trick shot artists... but unless they're like Florian---nobody cares. I know that sounds harsh, but shooting the same trick shots for the last 50 years is like watching paint dry.
Nobody in that trick shot magic can hold this guy's jock strap and everyone knows it. He basically re-invented the trick shot genre. I'm saying this as someone who is a non-fan of trick shots. When Venom is shooting trick shots--- I'm paying attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_MA3RlxjxU&feature=related
It is what it is.
I bet if they held a trick shot event where you can pick your own shots for every shot---- this kid couldn't lose. He'd have a lock on every one of his shots and he'd be a slight underdog on the opponents' shots. That's huge.
Nobody in that trick shot magic can hold this guy's jock strap and everyone knows it. He basically re-invented the trick shot genre. I'm saying this as someone who is a non-fan of trick shots. When Venom is shooting trick shots--- I'm paying attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_MA3RlxjxU&feature=related
It is what it is.
I bet if they held a trick shot event where you can pick your own shots for every shot---- this kid couldn't lose. He'd have a lock on every one of his shots and he'd be a slight underdog on the opponents' shots. That's huge.
I agree. I used to be a fan of trick shots maybe about the first 3 times I saw all of the same shots. After that it was stupid, especially realizing that I could do the same shots and after about 5 minutes of practice I could do them blindfolded. Venoms shots are downright disgursting and he has totally changed the game of trick shots. In modern day, he defines the term trick shot artist. Not taking anything away from Segal or Massey, etc., but you're right they could hold this kids nut huggers.
I disagree totally. You give any decent pool player a camera and unlimited time they could hit any of Florian's shots. The point of trick shot magic and other artistic pool is to be able to hit them on demand and you are rewarded with points for hitting them on your first attempt. Artistic pool is just as much about consistency as it is creative shots. They add shots to the book every year but since they all have to shoot them giving them a chance to practice them first is the only real way to do score a competition. If Florian stays in it his shots will be added to the book. If he doesn't, oh well.
The set up shots were just plain silly imo, jump a ball and push one straight in the hole or jump a ball through a swinging triangle come on, I could do that wearing big red shoes while driving a tiny car.
Your lack of knowledge (regarding trick shots) is showing. Pull your britches up!
Entirely in my opinion (like how I always start with that?), trick shot competitions NEED to have some sort of book to pull shots from to attempt to standardize the skill aspect. If it was entirely "I'm gonna do my crazy shot I came up with and practiced for the last 6 months, now you try it" shots, nobody would ever get a point off the other persons turn. It would just be a series of "bet you've never even thought of trying this" one point rounds, because it's dang near impossible to get the shot on the first 2 tries having never even seen it before.
Having a bit of standardization to the competition makes the players use skill and also strategy by choosing the level of difficulty of the trick shot they are trying from the standard book.
If you want it to be all out, all new shots that some guy has been working on by himself in his basement ... well, imo, that's not a competition, that's a display.
Having a bit of standardization to the competition makes the players use skill and also strategy by choosing the level of difficulty of the trick shot they are trying from the standard book.
If you want it to be all out, all new shots that some guy has been working on by himself in his basement ... well, imo, that's not a competition, that's a display.
That is the entire problem with trick shot shows. Why not try your own shots and forget about the other guys. Base the scoring on difficultly, elements and imagination/creativity for bonus points.
I just watched Venom compete on TSN and do a great masse around a delta rack (while CB still moving and before it hits a rail) masse back around the delta rack to pocket a ball, hits it PERFECT. the CB was placed close to the left corner pocket (delta rack on bottom rail about 2" from same corner. He kept masse close to rack, about 6 away)
The other guy places the CB at the top of the delta rack, shoots out to side rail with right spin (cause there is no way in hell he could do the same shot) waits for the ball to almost stop dead along the bottom rail, and masse around the delta to pocket ball. He jumps around yelling, yes, yes... they give him a point for a child version of venoms shot. Venom got robbed by them allowing his opponent to totally change that shot.
To me, Venom is playing baseball and these other guys are still on T-ball. It is boring watching those old shots that requires 1 hour to set-up, a bunch of jumping and yelling, hey, yeah, yes, ta-dah... like a great shot was made,
It is embarrassing that the general public think this is pool!!! If I tell someone that I shoot pool, they talk about the clown on TV setting up and making 6 balls in one shot. I play them and run a rack or two and they say, man you're pretty good. Yeah, I've run 12 racks in a row before - their reply - you are shooting easy shots though, bet you can't make that 6 ball shot.
I just watched Venom compete on TSN and do a great masse around a delta rack (while CB still moving and before it hits a rail) masse back around the delta rack to pocket a ball, hits it PERFECT. the CB was placed close to the left corner pocket (delta rack on bottom rail about 2" from same corner. He kept masse close to rack, about 6 away)
The other guy places the CB at the top of the delta rack, shoots out to side rail with right spin (cause there is no way in hell he could do the same shot) waits for the ball to almost stop dead along the bottom rail, and masse around the delta to pocket ball. He jumps around yelling, yes, yes... they give him a point for a child version of venoms shot. Venom got robbed by them allowing his opponent to totally change that shot.
To me, Venom is playing baseball and these other guys are still on T-ball. It is boring watching those old shots that requires 1 hour to set-up, a bunch of jumping and yelling, hey, yeah, yes, ta-dah... like a great shot was made,
It is embarrassing that the general public think this is pool!!! If I tell someone that I shoot pool, they talk about the clown on TV setting up and making 6 balls in one shot. I play them and run a rack or two and they say, man you're pretty good. Yeah, I've run 12 racks in a row before - their reply - you are shooting easy shots though, bet you can't make that 6 ball shot.
Venom has potential but no HARDWARE to show it, hes innovative without doubt, but consistent hes not,as proven yet again by Segal..
Im a admirer of venoms trick shots, but still believe, he has a ways to go ,before he reaches the consistency of the likes of legends such as Massey, Rossman, let alone Segal, whose better than the 3 of them currently.
Remember Without the pioneers, venom,nor segal, would be here. They helped paved the way for Artistic Pool....
Segal has took it to the next level,and is recognized as the "Champion of Artistic pool", well Venoms best recognized for his appearances on "you tube". Now who do you think is more accomplished ?
Im a admirer of venoms trick shots, but still believe, he has a ways to go ,before he reaches the consistency of the likes of legends such as Massey, Rossman, let alone Segal, whose better than the 3 of them currently.
Remember Without the pioneers, venom,nor segal, would be here. They helped paved the way for Artistic Pool....
Segal has took it to the next level,and is recognized as the "Champion of Artistic pool", well Venoms best recognized for his appearances on "you tube". Now who do you think is more accomplished ?
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Why is it necessary that Florian be consistent at executing setup shots from an old book, when they clearly don't interest him? Sure, he competes in two of these events each year now, but they pale in comparison to creating his own new shots.
For some reason most people seem to think that a trickshot artist is measured by his ability to reproduce shots from an old book. According to that logic, the best traditional artists should be those who can duplicate other famous works of art. Oddly enough, in the real world, those people aren't called artists, they're called frauds.
(I'm in no way calling any of the players frauds, as even Florian 'borrows' ideas from other players. I'm merely voicing an observation.)
Anyway, I just feel it's a shame that the current format benefits only repetition. I for one feel the format needs to be changed to further support the creative player.
Then again, look at Semih Sayginer. He's ten times more famous than Andy Segal, and yet never really pursued formal trickshot competitions to the same extent that Andy or Mike did in their prime. I have no doubt that Florian will reach a similar status, regardless if he continues to compete professionally.
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Florian is consistent, talented AND gifted in trick shot. Others just had more experience and repetition...
Check out Florian LIVE on Semi Final at Dr. Cue Artistic Cup.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/michigankid
S.
Check out Florian LIVE on Semi Final at Dr. Cue Artistic Cup.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/michigankid
S.
Mike Massey pulled out of it a few years ago. I cant remember why he said he did. I played him some 3C yesterday, LOL that was a bad match-up, if I was betting on it, we had fun. I stopped nad he started playing around with some artistic billiard shots and other stuff. Me and Cotton were sitting there watching Mike practice, man those shots he comes with never stop amazing me, drawing that bowling ball 3 rails around the box, and all the other shots. Mike caught a gear and was making shot after shot. He is booked up through March I believe, he is amazing and the best ever IMO of trick shots. Dont worry about his 3C game either, geez the shots he knows seem endless.
He really likes Florian and wants to teach him everything he possibly can, which is awesome. Florian already is beyond amazing, with Mikes help I believe Florian will become the best trick shot artist ever, because he has invented so many new shots and then learnig the stroke shots from Mike and the old school shots-nobody will have more tricks in their bag than Florian. I believe that Florian will be able to earn a good living from trick shots. There is more $$$ in that than pro pool, if your a good entertainer like Mike,.
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I completely agree, Fatboy. Florian has a great mentor in Mike Massey, and he has great potential to be the best ever. I also agree that there's a lot of difference between performing in competition and showing edited clips on utube, but that kid is really amazing. I think TSM is good for pool, on the other hand, I think Speed Pool really sucks. jmo.
