TS Pay Out?
- Thread starter Flettir
- Start date
I'm on my phone so I can't give you the link to the story, but go to www.insidepoolmag.com and click on the Dominguez article (should be on top). Payouts are at the bottom. 
1st Oscar Dominguez $8,000
2nd Zion Zvi $5,000
3rd Corey Deuel $3,600
4th Oscar Bonilla $2,600
5th Robb Saez $2,000
Shane Van Boening
7th Dave Grau $1,600
Gabe Owen
9th Joey Korsiak $1,200
Mike Davis
Karen Corr
Mhet Vergara
13th Ernesto Dominguez $850
Dennis Hatch
Shawn Putnam
Marc Vidal
17th Jeremy Sossei $550
Julie Kelly
Charlie Bryant
Yu Ram Cha
Dan Heidrich
Bob Blackmore
Ron Casanzio
Johnny Archer
TS payouts
OK - now I am confused.
I took the numbers shown and added them up. Totals up to $39,000 payout. Take out the $25,000 add and it comes up to $14,000. I think it is $150 entry x 128 players = $19,200.
So I think there is an error in the payout posted because I don't think Zuglan is taking $5,200 out of the player entry fees. I have talked to Mike a few times over the years and I think he is a pretty good guy.
So can somebody enlighten me? I don't think there is a registration fee - but if it was $25 per entry, that total s $3,200.
I would really appreciate it.
The reason I am asking is because the UPA took over $4,500 out of the Diamond World Summit held in Vegas a few months ago - without mentioning it to anyone. And there were only around 31 players.
Again, if I was to do that, I would get beat up on the board so badly - yet no one seems to notice it.
Mark Griffin
OK - now I am confused.
I took the numbers shown and added them up. Totals up to $39,000 payout. Take out the $25,000 add and it comes up to $14,000. I think it is $150 entry x 128 players = $19,200.
So I think there is an error in the payout posted because I don't think Zuglan is taking $5,200 out of the player entry fees. I have talked to Mike a few times over the years and I think he is a pretty good guy.
So can somebody enlighten me? I don't think there is a registration fee - but if it was $25 per entry, that total s $3,200.
I would really appreciate it.
The reason I am asking is because the UPA took over $4,500 out of the Diamond World Summit held in Vegas a few months ago - without mentioning it to anyone. And there were only around 31 players.
Again, if I was to do that, I would get beat up on the board so badly - yet no one seems to notice it.
Mark Griffin
Just double-checked to make sure that the numbers are correct, and the total payouts was $ 39,000
I am curious about this too... anyone knows what the entryfee was?
The entry fee for the event was $150 to any current 2008-2009 tour member and $200 to all others.
according to http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2009.php?eventnum=297
The total is $41,400 paid to top 32.
The total is $41,400 paid to top 32.
Last edited:
TS Payouts
Hellfish-
Thanks for the accurate payout figures. I thought that could be part of the problem. Inside Pool did not include the bottom tier of payouts.
That makes $2,400 difference.
So we are still looking for $2,800?? (assuming all the players were members with $150 entry).
I don't want anyone to think I am picking on Zuglan (or anyone else). I just think any deductions form the entries or other prize funds needs to be disclosed.
Again, The UPA did not in their last event - and never got 'called' on it.
Anymore input????
Mark Griffin
Hellfish-
Thanks for the accurate payout figures. I thought that could be part of the problem. Inside Pool did not include the bottom tier of payouts.
That makes $2,400 difference.
So we are still looking for $2,800?? (assuming all the players were members with $150 entry).
I don't want anyone to think I am picking on Zuglan (or anyone else). I just think any deductions form the entries or other prize funds needs to be disclosed.
Again, The UPA did not in their last event - and never got 'called' on it.
Anymore input????
Mark Griffin
I think there is something with the casino where even though it is "$25,000 added" they don't put all $25K in for some reason. I don't think Zuglan is taking much out (if anything) but there is some reason that there are a few bucks missing. I overheard something about the casino money but I don't know exactly what the deal is. Hopefully someone can clear it up.
Did anyone check the last few events to see if this happened before?
Did anyone check the last few events to see if this happened before?
It is my understanding the fees to bring the tables and set them up is deducted from the total possible prize fund. I think Mark might know how much Mr. Zuglan is paying for the use of those tables. My payback at least covered the entry fee and nearly the room. Had I stayed elsewhere, I would have made money at the tournament. The Stone is somewhat expensive for the players but I'd prefer to support them. Year after year, Mike pays more money back to the players than any other tour I'm familiar with. Whether it is at the "Stone" or from the participating room events. A real class act!
Lyn
Lyn
TS payouts
Lyn and Hellfish;
I am aware that the event has to rent Diamond tables. I could find out the amount they pay BUT that is NOT the issue.
ALL events have to rent or somehow acquire tables. I am sure there are many thousands of dollars of expenses of this event. And Mike Zuglan runs an excellent event.
I am just saying that I would like to have the pro (and amateur) events state what is being deducted from the prize fund. I am actually very suprised if there is a registration fee or such for this event.
Again, i am NOT trying to put Zuglan or the event in a funny position. But the facts are what the facts are. There are several other promoters that deduct and NEVER let the players know in advance.
Sorry but that is not how it is supposed to be done. Every one of the events we have ever done has always stated in advance what is deducted (registration - green fees or whatever).
Mark Griffin
Lyn and Hellfish;
I am aware that the event has to rent Diamond tables. I could find out the amount they pay BUT that is NOT the issue.
ALL events have to rent or somehow acquire tables. I am sure there are many thousands of dollars of expenses of this event. And Mike Zuglan runs an excellent event.
I am just saying that I would like to have the pro (and amateur) events state what is being deducted from the prize fund. I am actually very suprised if there is a registration fee or such for this event.
Again, i am NOT trying to put Zuglan or the event in a funny position. But the facts are what the facts are. There are several other promoters that deduct and NEVER let the players know in advance.
Sorry but that is not how it is supposed to be done. Every one of the events we have ever done has always stated in advance what is deducted (registration - green fees or whatever).
Mark Griffin
Mark,
He does charge a registration fee for the players. That charge is a yearly Tour fee of $40. You can play all other events for $15 per if you so choose. My guess (and its just that) is Mike has some income at the event from the $50 per player fee between regular Joss Tour players and Turning Stone event "Guests". From the players list, my guess is roughly 30% of the field (40 players) pay the $200 fee to play. The balance of the prize fund differential is the cost of the tables, lighting, setup and teardown. My guess is 16 tables at $300 each. I've been aware of the prize fund differential for years. Never had a problem with it knowing he pays for the tables. Is it your suggestion he should state that up front? Perhaps on the entry form or poster? Most "Pro" players are relatively smart. I'm sure each one has checked the money just as I have. The rest of the players are there for fun and enjoyment. It may never have crossed their minds to check the money!
Lyn
He does charge a registration fee for the players. That charge is a yearly Tour fee of $40. You can play all other events for $15 per if you so choose. My guess (and its just that) is Mike has some income at the event from the $50 per player fee between regular Joss Tour players and Turning Stone event "Guests". From the players list, my guess is roughly 30% of the field (40 players) pay the $200 fee to play. The balance of the prize fund differential is the cost of the tables, lighting, setup and teardown. My guess is 16 tables at $300 each. I've been aware of the prize fund differential for years. Never had a problem with it knowing he pays for the tables. Is it your suggestion he should state that up front? Perhaps on the entry form or poster? Most "Pro" players are relatively smart. I'm sure each one has checked the money just as I have. The rest of the players are there for fun and enjoyment. It may never have crossed their minds to check the money!
Lyn
Mark Griffin is correct. When a tourament is announce you provide all infor related to prize money. If $25,000 is added, this means that it is in addition to all the entry fees.
If there is green fees, it has to be announced, as well as any Tour fees. That way the Player knows beforehand, what is expected to be covered with the entry fee and what is going to the prize fund. Set-up fees are at the expense of the promoters and shall not come out of the prize fund.
If there is green fees, it has to be announced, as well as any Tour fees. That way the Player knows beforehand, what is expected to be covered with the entry fee and what is going to the prize fund. Set-up fees are at the expense of the promoters and shall not come out of the prize fund.
Prize funds
Lyn,
This debate has nothing to do with the TS event. It is a debate about how one should announce the added money and explain deductions.
I have NEVER seen the cost of the pool tables be included in an expense list of a major event.
In a weekly pool hall tournament, they often list a green fee. But that is not the same.
It was mentioned a few months ago about the UPA World Summit.
It was a $20,000 added event - had 31 players x $300 (after UPA dues; I believe) which should have been $29,300 or so. It ended up being around $25,000. No explanation - no advance notice. According to those who added the money, it was for Frank Alvarez fee for running the tournament. WTF??????? Check out AZ thread: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=144749 - start around post #90 or so)
Is this becoming the 'new standard' or can the players just have some basic info BEFORE the event?
Mark Griffin
Lyn,
This debate has nothing to do with the TS event. It is a debate about how one should announce the added money and explain deductions.
I have NEVER seen the cost of the pool tables be included in an expense list of a major event.
In a weekly pool hall tournament, they often list a green fee. But that is not the same.
It was mentioned a few months ago about the UPA World Summit.
It was a $20,000 added event - had 31 players x $300 (after UPA dues; I believe) which should have been $29,300 or so. It ended up being around $25,000. No explanation - no advance notice. According to those who added the money, it was for Frank Alvarez fee for running the tournament. WTF??????? Check out AZ thread: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=144749 - start around post #90 or so)
Is this becoming the 'new standard' or can the players just have some basic info BEFORE the event?
Mark Griffin
Last edited:
As this is a thread about the Turning Stone event, your comment certainly has something to do with the topic.
Where else can Mike place the cost of participation? It is his primary expence to run the event. Whether you call it a greens fee or by any other term, Ed Hagen and Diamond Billiard Products expect to be paid in full. As one of the professional ranking events, many consider the TS events to be among the best in the Country. Including you! This event has been and will continue to be FREE for spectators. Can the same be said of most any other World Class Event? Look at the $50 per day Dragon Promotions is charging for the 14.1 event. In a pool room no less. I'm not sure I've seen you at the "Stone". If you have not been there, the setup for spectators is incredible! One of the best I've ever seen. Period.
Would you be "happier" if Mike lowered the added money to $20,000 and paid for the tables out of the remaining $5000? Interesting problem.
Lyn
As I mentioned in my reply to Mark, the two of you are suggesting Mike Zuglan lower the added money to $20,000 and take the additional $5000 for tournament expences. Is that correct?
Lyn
Not replying for either, just asking a question
When a tournament is advertised as being an ADDED event and the entry fees and the added money don't add up, do you just accept it or do you ask questions?
I ask questions. The cost of the promoters running the event should be covered under green fees or registration fees. IMO, not entry fees and added money.
Just my Opinion.
When a tournament is advertised as being an ADDED event and the entry fees and the added money don't add up, do you just accept it or do you ask questions?
I ask questions. The cost of the promoters running the event should be covered under green fees or registration fees. IMO, not entry fees and added money.
Just my Opinion.
Payouts
Lyn,
You are missing the point. I am NOT suggesting the added amount be lowered. I am just asking that it be accurately disclosed.
ALL of the sub contractors of the event should expect to be paid in full. But does that mean it comes out of the added money??
How about the advertising costs - should that be deducted from the prize fund too?
You are making this WAY to confusing!
One more time - I appreciate the events tht Mike Zuglan does - they are good events. But that is not the point here. Neither is the fact that it is free to watch.
This is only about disclosure of the prize fund.
Mark Griffin
Lyn,
You are missing the point. I am NOT suggesting the added amount be lowered. I am just asking that it be accurately disclosed.
ALL of the sub contractors of the event should expect to be paid in full. But does that mean it comes out of the added money??
How about the advertising costs - should that be deducted from the prize fund too?
You are making this WAY to confusing!
One more time - I appreciate the events tht Mike Zuglan does - they are good events. But that is not the point here. Neither is the fact that it is free to watch.
This is only about disclosure of the prize fund.
Mark Griffin
That would make it more correct, atleast for me.
If someone says a tournament has $ 10 000 added, I would expect $ 10 000 ADDED to the prize fund, not only for example $ 5 000 because the advertisement, TD and poolhall is going to be paid aswell.
I am not interested in the "budget" for a tournament, but how much the total prize fund will be.