Tunica Turnout

JAM said:
I used to be you when the IPT was around, Lenny, and the IPT poured in hell of a lot more money -- SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS -- and had a much better venue than BB. :wink:

I might add that the dress code at the IPT was something that fans enjoyed seeing. Much better than the hockey shirts as far as the visual of it all. :embarrassed2:

I took the heat along with all the other IPT supporters, just like you are.

I'll talk to you next year this time and see how you feel. For your sake, I hope I have to eat crow. Nobody is a winner if BB fails. :frown:
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IPT did not build the venue they used, either rented or a deal worked out for usage, not much different then a tournament at casino with lights and tables put in. Bonus Ball uses jerseys because it is a team game, perhaps they could have went with dry fit polos with the team logos and names on the back but it was a choice they felt was right.

There is not too much heat I am taking as I have supporters and like minded people posting on here who want to see it work and care about the pro players. I just hate how people cannot accept responsibility for when their event fails or does not do as good as they expected, always easier to point the finger at someone else or maybe even blame it on the weather.

I do hope Bonus Ball works but my sake is not the concern and I would love everyone who doubted to eat crow for the sake of the pro pool players involved. The worse thing on this forum that can happen is the same old people telling me "Look it did not work just like I said, you were wrong!". One thing is for sure I am glad Bonus Ball tried something different whether it works or not because what is being done is not working so if it fails I am glad it was tried. If BB goes to the wayside like the IPT then maybe those big dogs in the industry can put their heads together and get the players together and figure out a plan to have men's pro tour that actually can support 32 or more players.
 
Fast Lenny said:
IPT did not build the venue they used, either rented or a deal worked out for usage, not much different then a tournament at casino with lights and tables put in. Bonus Ball uses jerseys because it is a team game, perhaps they could have went with dry fit polos with the team logos and names on the back but it was a choice they felt was right.

There is not too much heat I am taking as I have supporters and like minded people posting on here who want to see it work and care about the pro players. I just hate how people cannot accept responsibility for when their event fails or does not do as good as they expected, always easier to point the finger at someone else or maybe even blame it on the weather.

I do hope Bonus Ball works but my sake is not the concern and I would love everyone who doubted to eat crow for the sake of the pro pool players involved. The worse thing on this forum that can happen is the same old people telling me "Look it did not work just like I said, you were wrong!". One thing is for sure I am glad Bonus Ball tried something different whether it works or not because what is being done is not working so if it fails I am glad it was tried. If BB goes to the wayside like the IPT then maybe those big dogs in the industry can put their heads together and get the players together and figure out a plan to have men's pro tour that actually can support 32 or more players.
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I wish you could read some of my posts from the IPT era. They mirror yours about BB.

What is different this time about BB is some of the BB supporters (not you) are bad-mouthing promoters, the very promoters who supported them in the past with free entry, rooms, and other perks. If BB fails, they will feel the heat more than you or I did with the IPT. :eek:

Look, I'm all for the pro players making ends meet. I think you and I are both in agreement on this point. :)

The BB administrative body doesn't seem to know who's on first, who's on second, and how to proceed in the pool industry. Their track record to date is not good. Of course, the Dancing Monkeys will cheer for BB as long as BB is paying them to dance.

And about the teams, I've been meaning to say this for a long time. To have Dennis Hatch playing for Atlanta and Earl Strickland playing for New York is odd. I know Earl living in NYC currently, but still, he's a Southern boy. Dennis has been living in Buffalo, NY for a long time. And then to see Jose Parica pop up playing for Miami, FL. LOL

I like you, Lenny, but I feel bad for you, number one, living in Vegas -- YUCK! -- and, number two, associating yourself with a controversial organization. If BB survives, I will be very happy for you and the pro players, but the way they're going about their business is not kosher in my book.
 
JAM said:
Because the inexperienced BB staffmember who adjusted the BB schedule at the last minute did indeed accommodate Ultimate. He did not accommodate Southern Classic. Come on, Lenny, we've been down this road before. :grin-square:
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We should stick with facts instead of misinformation since we have been down this road before. Can you prove that Bonus Ball was what caused that event to fail? Can you provide a list of Bonus Ball players that paid and backed out? Why with the huge purse at the Ultimate 10 Ball did they have such a poor turnout?, we obviously cannot blame Bonus Ball since they had 22 players in it playing so we will not talk about why that event did not fill up and was not a success but I am sure it is the same reason why BigFoot and other events at Tunica did not do so well.

I believe the real reason is it is very expensive and not a good venue from speaking to the players and spectators along with it being in its second year. People will choose DCC over Tunica if they are doing one major event a year so to think all those at DCC will also attend Tunica is naive.

I am positive more non Bonus Ball players backed out then actual Bonus Ball players, it happens and they are pool players who make last minute decisions often deciding to play or not according to what is going on in life. We can keep spreading rumors and speculate or just stick with the facts, since Jay said it was Bonus Ball that caused it then maybe he can provide some proof of it because they only person I really heard that was paid and refunded was Darren Appleton.
 
Fast Lenny said:
We should stick with facts instead of misinformation since we have been down this road before. Can you prove that Bonus Ball was what caused that event to fail? Can you provide a list of Bonus Ball players that paid and backed out? Why with the huge purse at the Ultimate 10 Ball did they have such a poor turnout?, we obviously cannot blame Bonus Ball since they had 22 players in it playing so we will not talk about why that event did not fill up and was not a success but I am sure it is the same reason why BigFoot and other events at Tunica did not do so well.

I believe the real reason is it is very expensive and not a good venue from speaking to the players and spectators along with it being in its second year. People will choose DCC over Tunica if they are doing one major event a year so to think all those at DCC will also attend Tunica is naive.

I am positive more non Bonus Ball players backed out then actual Bonus Ball players, it happens and they are pool players who make last minute decisions often deciding to play or not according to what is going on in life. We can keep spreading rumors and speculate or just stick with the facts, since Jay said it was Bonus Ball that caused it then maybe he can provide some proof of it because they only person I really heard that was paid and refunded was Darren Appleton.
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Lenny, it was not just Darren.

I don't want to engage in a back-and-forth with you on the speculations of why SC experienced a low turnout, but Bonus Ball has caused some turbulence in an already-fractured American pool industry. If you can't see this, then that's because you're cruising on the BB Titanic at the moment and can't feel the waves kicking.

I will pick you up in a lifeboat and welcome you back home after the storm. :p
 
JAM said:
If you can't see this, then that's because you're cruising on the BB Titanic at the moment and can't feel the waves kicking.

I will pick you up in a lifeboat and welcome you back home after the storm. :p
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That's a good one JAM.
 
JAM said:
I wish you could read some of my posts from the IPT era. They mirror yours about BB.

What is different this time about BB is some of the BB supporters (not you) are bad-mouthing promoters, the very promoters who supported them in the past with free entry, rooms, and other perks. If BB fails, they will feel the heat more than you or I did with the IPT. :eek:

Look, I'm all for the pro players making ends meet. I think you and I are both in agreement on this point. :)

The BB administrative body doesn't seem to know who's on first, who's on second, and how to proceed in the pool industry. Their track record to date is not good. Of course, the Dancing Monkeys will cheer for BB as long as BB is paying them to dance.

And about the teams, I've been meaning to say this for a long time. To have Dennis Hatch playing for Atlanta and Earl Strickland playing for New York is odd. I know Earl living in NYC currently, but still, he's a Southern boy. Dennis has been living in Buffalo, NY for a long time. And then to see Jose Parica pop up playing for Miami, FL. LOL

I like you, Lenny, but I feel bad for you, number one, living in Vegas -- YUCK! -- and, number two, associating yourself with a controversial organization. If BB survives, I will be very happy for you and the pro players, but the way they're going about their business is not kosher in my book.
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I am one of those people that feel the IPT was not some evil entity and still do to this day, Kevin Trudeau aside they did payout a ton of money to the players, more than any other promoter has or ever will in such a short period of time. When I have spoke to players about the IPT they had high hopes for it but it did not work, they still did not feel ripped off because they got paid. I cannot speak for those who played in qualifiers because that was another mess with it.

Living in Las Vegas is as yucky as you want to make it, haha, it is just another city to me and I am not overwhelmed by all the flashing lights and noisy machines. I actually like Vegas for the best food selection in the world, always a show or something to do at any given hour besides gambling. Many places are as good or as bad as you make it, you are who you are wherever you go. Please do not blame Bonus Ball if it fails and one day down the road I go off the deep end because I was going off the deep end long before Bonus Ball was even spoken about much like pool itself. :grin:
 
JAM said:
Lenny, it was not just Darren.

I don't want to engage in a back-and-forth with you on the speculations of why SC experienced a low turnout, but Bonus Ball has caused some turbulence in an already-fractured American pool industry. If you can't see this, then that's because you're cruising on the BB Titanic at the moment and can't feel the waves kicking.

I will pick you up in a lifeboat and welcome you back home after the storm. :p
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It is not hard to prove things when we can just show the names of who played and did not or who backed out and also past and current numbers, we cannot show all the players personal reasons for not attending though. Events that are new are unproven just like Bonus Ball is, who knows if they will work and thrive but people are trying something which is what really matters. I appreciate those promoters like Badi who put a bunch of money up an I am sorry it did not fill up but I am sure he is not blaming Bonus Ball because by the numbers it does not make sense.

All the numbers for Tunica in all events were low including the UTBC with the biggest prize pool at the venue that 22 players of BB played in so obviously something different needs to be done with Tunica. I do not believe 4 DCC style events a year can work and be supported, instead of having one big event a year the attendance will be spread out over 4 smaller ones but perhaps it could grow if the locations were better. I would just stick with DCC and improve on it and keep growing that, listen to players and spectators a little bit but Greg Sullivan is a businessman and will look at the numbers and see if financially the new venture like Tunica is making sense.
 
When is someone going to pony up the list of those that backed out? BB, IPT, DCC, TCC or whatever, the fact is that people are blaming BB, but nobody is listing the who or why. Back and forth is doing nothing, post up a list and get it out there.
 
Fast Lenny said:
It is not hard to prove things when we can just show the names of who played and did not or who backed out and also past and current numbers, we cannot show all the players personal reasons for not attending though. Events that are new are unproven just like Bonus Ball is, who knows if they will work and thrive but people are trying something which is what really matters. I appreciate those promoters like Badi who put a bunch of money up an I am sorry it did not fill up but I am sure he is not blaming Bonus Ball because by the numbers it does not make sense.

All the numbers for Tunica in all events were low including the UTBC with the biggest prize pool at the venue that 22 players of BB played in so obviously something different needs to be done with Tunica. I do not believe 4 DCC style events a year can work and be supported, instead of having one big event a year the attendance will be spread out over 4 smaller ones but perhaps it could grow if the locations were better. I would just stick with DCC and improve on it and keep growing that, listen to players and spectators a little bit but Greg Sullivan is a businessman and will look at the numbers and see if financially the new venture like Tunica is making sense.
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We will never really know the real reasons, because too many people have too much of a vested interest in their own agendas. If you or anyone else thinks this is just about the Bonus Ball management vs Greg, mark and Jay, they are being naive.

Lets not forget how the ABP tried to manipulate the industry since its inception. Many if not most if them are involved in Bonus Ball. Many of those folks have been known to try to further their own agendas, and they do have influence with one another.

That is all pure speculation, based on recent history. Having said that, if anyone doesn't believe that some players aren't lobbying for this or for that, and that other players don't go along with it, well that is silly.

As I said, we will never know all the moving parts as to why these things happen. Way too many hands in this.
 
justadub said:
We will never really know the real reasons, because too many people have too much of a vested interest in their own agendas. If you or anyone else thinks this is just about the Bonus Ball management vs Greg, mark and Jay, they are being naive.

Lets not forget how the ABP tried to manipulate the industry since its inception. Many if not most if them are involved in Bonus Ball. Many of those folks have been known to try to further their own agendas, and they do have influence with one another.

That is all pure speculation, based on recent history. Having said that, if anyone doesn't believe that some players aren't lobbying for this or for that, and that other players don't go along with it, well that is silly.

As I said, we will never know all the moving parts as to why these things happen. Way too many hands in this.
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Good observation and well-made points.

Roger
 
justadub said:
As I said, we will never know all the moving parts as to why these things happen. Way too many hands in this.
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Tap, Tap, Tap.

It's intriguing for us to try and speculate what the big picture is, but to an extent, it's just mental masturbation.

Railbirds who draw big picture conclusions are IMO fooling themselves. Try building a jigsaw puzzle with 75% of the pieces missing.
 
If you have facts, print them, if you don't then enough is enough of the
sky is falling.
Really some of you have just made this so
PERSONAL.
Either show facts or move on.
 
JAM said:
Well, pool grapevine says that they had to cut the 32-man field of the Bigfoot Challenge to a 16-man field. This was the event that they wanted to grow, making a 4-city tour down the road with Bigfoot Challenge as the headline feature event, but because of the ignorance of the non-experienced Bonus Ball staffperson who changed the schedule at the last minute, some of the players who were committed, paid their entry fee, to play, well, they withdrew at the last minute and asked for their entry fee back. That's number one how BB affected Southern Classic.

Oh, and their entry fee was immediately refunded, unlike other events which would have kept the monies until after the event had concluded. This is worthy to mention.

Number two, some of the pool players who were playing in the banks, one-pocket, and rotation tournament found out that the buy-back entry fee monies were going to be used for the Bigfoot Challenge instead of putting the buy-back entry fees back into the banks, one-pocket, and rotation tournament payouts. We heard this from more than one player, so I'm not sure if this is a Southern Classic rumor that went around or if it was indeed a result of low turnout and having enough funds to pay out all events fairly.

After all, I'm sure nobody wants to be told a la U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship that they will get their money later, after the fact, "the check's in the mail" scenario, right?

You can't please everybody at tournaments. There will always be someone who voices discontent. On a good note, everybody was paid that was supposed to be paid.

Thanks, Bonus Ball, again for the scheduling snafu that caused a fractured American pool industry to suffer the consequences of the non-experienced staff running the Bonus Ball ship.
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the buy back are never put back in, they usually just keep them. All you have to do is the MATH to figure that out.
 
spanky79 said:
the buy back are never put back in, they usually just keep them. All you have to do is the MATH to figure that out.
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Are you saying that GS pockets ALL the buy backs? Like a hundo a person times 100 players (ish) an event times three events? So like $30,000?

Whoa.
 
I'm curious, what players (BB) didn't attend this year that attended last year?

Just a small tidbit, the Canadian Championships were on this week in Toronto so John Morra, Jason Klatt and Erik Hjorleifson were also being mind controlled by another Canadian demon organization to not attend.
 
D_Lewis said:
I'm curious, what players (BB) didn't attend this year that attended last year?

Just a small tidbit, the Canadian Championships were on this week in Toronto so John Morra, Jason Klatt and Erik Hjorleifson were also being mind controlled by another Canadian demon organization to not attend.
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Canadian Fever is everywhere. It's become rampant. It was even on my lab forum this weekend. :grin:
 

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