Turning down shafts

Greatblzofire

Neil Olsen Custom Cues
Silver Member
I was wondering, I know different guys have different ideas of what the proper turning schedule should be.

If you do not mind sharing, what is your turning schedule? How much time between turns, How many turns before the shaft is down to finish size? what is your reasoning?

My guess is there are many different schedules that cuemakers endorse.

If you do not want to make your answer public but do not mind sharing with me, I would gladly take a PM on the subject.

I make two or three aggressive cuts about a month apart to get the shaft down to about 16-18mm. Then start taking small passes down to 13.25. I sand down from there.

Alternatives??? Always looking to improve!
 
I was wondering, I know different guys have different ideas of what the proper turning schedule should be.

If you do not mind sharing, what is your turning schedule? How much time between turns, How many turns before the shaft is down to finish size? what is your reasoning?

My guess is there are many different schedules that cuemakers endorse.

If you do not want to make your answer public but do not mind sharing with me, I would gladly take a PM on the subject.

I make two or three aggressive cuts about a month apart to get the shaft down to about 16-18mm. Then start taking small passes down to 13.25. I sand down from there.

Alternatives??? Always looking to improve!
When you say "aggressive cuts" I am not sure if you mean passes or times on the machine. I take them down to 16mm in three stages doing two passes each time it is on the machine. The time between stages is usually one to three months. Then they hang around for sometimes years before getting finished. This is the point that I decide the true grade of the shaft and decide where it goes. I take about 6 more small passes on them to take them down to 13mm. I usually take these last passes over a few week period when I decide to finish the shaft.
 
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When you say "aggressive cuts" I am not sure if you mean passes or times on the machine. I take them down to 16mm in three stages doing two passes each time it is on the machine. The time between stages is usually one to three months. Then they hang around for sometimes years before getting finished. This is the point that I decide the true grade of the shaft and decide where it goes. I take about 6 more small passes on them to take them down to 13mm. I usually take these last passes over a few week period when I decide to finish the shaft.

that is the same thing I do, two sometimes three passes in two or three sessions until I am at 16-18mm. It totally depends on my time and energy (and my wife's patience) as to exactly where it ends up. then I start cutting in small passes as I start a cue. I try to work the cue butt and the small passes on the shaft in conjunction with eachother so that they are ready together over about a 120 day time period.

The aggressive cut on the forearm, handle and shaft would have been made long before that and been sitting waiting for a cue to be started with it.
 
I make 6 turns on my shafts, starting with a 1" dowel.

1) .700
2) .650 (2 weeks rest between these cuts)

3) .600
4) .575
5) .550
6) .530 (1 month rest between these cuts)
I hand sand these to finished size.

I have a floor rack that they rest in, between cuts & I recently found a 30"
.530 blank that was cut in 2007. It was perfectly straight.
My shop is heated in winter & air conditioned in summer. HOPE THIS HELPS...JER
 
I go to .900 on the tip end then .800 a year later, .700 next year then .060 each year. I'm in no hurry and have plenty of shafts. I'm using my 2005 shafts this year.
 
Get dowels from the UPS man.

Run the grain on each shaft and mark where the centers need to be drilled. Discard obvious culls.

Let shafts sit in shop until I feel the need to turn them. This may be a month to a year.

1st turn: .607 to 1.00 tapered cone. Toss out the ones that don't make the grade. Then they hang for a month or until I feel like doing something with them. You can see the turning process here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3O3UuCvgHY

2nd turn: from cone to shaft taper .607 at the tip. Ones that don't cut the mustard in the weight and/or several other criteria get culled. These will sit around for another month or until I feel like screwing with them (Do you see a trend here?)

3rd turn: Put shaft between centers first. If it has moved more than I am comfortable with and I don't think it is stable it gets trashed. If it has not moved then it gets cut from .607 to .547 in two cuts (heavy first cut and then a light finish pass). Now it hangs for at least a year. The ones I have now have been there longer.

4th turn: .537 at the tip. If it won't clean up with the .010 pass then it gets tossed. This is my my ready to use size and they hang until needed.

5th turn: rings and ferrule get installed. Then they are turned to .527 at the tip. This is done when the cue is at .010 over final size. Now they can hang together for another month or so.

Final turn. From .527 to .517 in two .005 passes back to back.
 
Good wood stays straight, bad wood warps. Doesn't really matter how you cut them (within reason). Use a red marker & put an x on the end grain of every shaft dowel that moves during the cutting process. Use a green marker & put a check on the end grain of every shaft that stays straight through every cycle of cuts. It won't be long before you realize that warpers are warpers & goodies are goodies. Then you can begin experimenting with cutting cycles & again, won't take long to realize that warpers are still warpers & goodies are still goodies, regardless of how you schedule your cuts. There's simply no sense in wasting time & blades on junk wood. So find a way to sort them out as soon as you can, and toss them in the dumpster so you never see them again & won't be tempted to keep giving them second chances. Your initial yield may seem lower, but the number of warped shafts in the long run (once players are using them) will be dramatically lower.
 
I was wondering, I know different guys have different ideas of what the proper turning schedule should be.

If you do not mind sharing, what is your turning schedule? How much time between turns, How many turns before the shaft is down to finish size? what is your reasoning?

My guess is there are many different schedules that cuemakers endorse.

If you do not want to make your answer public but do not mind sharing with me, I would gladly take a PM on the subject.

I make two or three aggressive cuts about a month apart to get the shaft down to about 16-18mm. Then start taking small passes down to 13.25. I sand down from there.

Alternatives??? Always looking to improve!

Hi Neil,

This is the way we do it. My shop is in the midwest and we have seasonal changes in our environment with the 4 seasons. And we like to age our wood like Ernie from "Gina Cue" who has over 10 years of aging in his shaft stock at any time. My thinking is, do what the "Master of the Cue Universe" is doing and it can't be wrong.

Here is our schedule for seasoning and building our shafts:


I take my hand picked 5/4" Kiln Dried Planks to shop & acclimate for 1 to 2 weeks and check with moisture meter. (I have a small piece of 5/4" plank cut off in my shop which represents the moisture standard of maple at any given time in any given season. When the new stock and that standard moisture datum piece match, the plank is ready to be cut).

Bandsaw 5/4" planks to 5/4" squares at 30"

Dowel to 1"

Initial Taper established in 4 passes to .950

To .925 at some point, then weighed and marked with a pencil. (Store in the caddy until being matched for color and weight for a cue. At this point in our shop inventory, the shafts are 4 years old or older and we are shooting for ten in the next six years as I am buying only a few new freak planks at a time every month or two at this time).

The inserts are then installed into the shafts and the rings and collars are also installed and we tap the threads and install our pin turning device for concentricity. The shaft is never chucked again and the pin device is not removed until we have performed the final buffing of the finish.

During the build I take a .010 intermediate passes on the saw machine every other day then lighters cuts to final, ( see chart below).

At .845 I seal with a white waterborne sealer for a grain raise and then cut to final. This sealer makes the wood harder on the surface and gives me a better RMS finish on the final cuts at the snail slow speeds and feeds. You can hear the difference of the higher pitch of the saw on the wood and feel the difference with your hand at final. It works great!!!

All shafts are then sanded and sealed with shellac until clear coating is buffed and shafts are finished sanded and burnished, then the pin device is removed.

I know many here disagree with my method for shaft building using my centering pin device and have their own way of getting their repeatable results and that's ok. Do what works for you.

For processing shaft wood I follow the lead of David P. Kersenbroch as described in his book of 1990. Other than the fact that I take more cuts over time ( just me being annal) I am a DPK groupie. He is another "Master of the Cue Universe" in my book and if you emulate what the best in the business does and build on their path to success, with a few incremental refinements that you can learn and make for improvement, who knows where it may take you.

One Last Thought:

IMHO, the shaft of your cue is the most important feature element concerning the way your cue hits. Your taper and the density of the wood is paramount if you want a world class hit to all of your cue. I reject all shafts under 3.9 oz and I know what that shaft is going to weigh pretty much at .925. This can be achieved by hand selecting your planks and buy the heaviest one with the straightest grain.

If my shafts have some color imperfections or a mineral spot here or there, I don't care or feel funny about it at all because the "Hit" is what I am after. If a customer gives me the inquiring eye about a mark on a shaft, I put in on the scale and ask him if he wants that 4.4 oz shaft or does he want to pick out another cue with a prettier shaft pair. When it goes to the scale, they always want it.

Everybody has their own bend to the brim concerning shaft processing. This is just the way I do it.

Rick Geschrey

Shaft turning schedule procedure with feed and speeds

CFR.jpg


4 sanded shafts ready for shellac with concentricity turning pins.


IMG_3275.jpg
 
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I know many here disagree with my method for shaft building using my centering pin device and have their own way of getting their repeatable results and that's ok. Do what works for you.

I'm not sure why "many" would disagree with the shaft centering device. I've been using the same method for more years then "many" on this board have been making cues.

IMAG0248.jpg
 
I'm not sure why "many" would disagree with the shaft centering device. I've been using the same method for more years then "many" on this board have been making cues.

IMAG0248.jpg

Tap Tap Tap

Hi Murray,

Coming from you, I feel vindicated somewhat as your work and cues speak for themselves. I have had a lot of flames telling me that it should not be done that way. I had one guy call me up and tell me I was a liar and it won't work that way because he has made 2000 cues. Oh well to each their own. Since you have been doing it this way for so long you well understand the value of indexed tapering off the centerline of the X Axis dialed into your shaft threads 90 degrees off the flat face. Boring in reverse with face perpendicularity to the X as good as you chuck can produce. To me it's shaft nirvana.

I have a butt taper saw and a shaft taper saw machines with dial indicators and when I nail my final passes on both machines to .837, they match up. I guess that last liar does not have a chance.LOL

Rick G
 
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Thanks guys, these are the thoughtful replys that I was hoping for and what this section of the forum was intended to be. Share some and learn some! I wish all of the threads were this informative.

Until next time!
 
I'm not sure I would take it that far. It is just one of many ways to accomplish a task. There are still many things that have to be done right for everything to work. If the shaft moves or the hole is not threaded straight it all goes out the window. There are many to skin a cat and this is merely one of them.

Oh well to each their own. Since you have been doing it this way for so long you well understand the value of indexed tapering off the centerline of the X Axis dialed into your shaft threads 90 degrees off the flat face. Boring in reverse with face perpendicularity to the X as good as you chuck can produce. To me it's shaft nirvana.


Rick G



Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
 
climate

Get dowels from the UPS man.

Run the grain on each shaft and mark where the centers need to be drilled. Discard obvious culls.

Let shafts sit in shop until I feel the need to turn them. This may be a month to a year.

1st turn: .607 to 1.00 tapered cone. Toss out the ones that don't make the grade. Then they hang for a month or until I feel like doing something with them. You can see the turning process here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3O3UuCvgHY

2nd turn: from cone to shaft taper .607 at the tip. Ones that don't cut the mustard in the weight and/or several other criteria get culled. These will sit around for another month or until I feel like screwing with them (Do you see a trend here?)

3rd turn: Put shaft between centers first. If it has moved more than I am comfortable with and I don't think it is stable it gets trashed. If it has not moved then it gets cut from .607 to .547 in two cuts (heavy first cut and then a light finish pass). Now it hangs for at least a year. The ones I have now have been there longer.

4th turn: .537 at the tip. If it won't clean up with the .010 pass then it gets tossed. This is my my ready to use size and they hang until needed.

5th turn: rings and ferrule get installed. Then they are turned to .527 at the tip. This is done when the cue is at .010 over final size. Now they can hang together for another month or so.

Final turn. From .527 to .517 in two .005 passes back to back.
Do you think the climate / humidity in your state has a bearing on how you treat your wood? And do you think other states should do the same?
thanks, JerseyBill
 
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Hi Neil,

This is the way we do it. My shop is in the midwest and we have seasonal changes in our environment with the 4 seasons. And we like to age our wood like Ernie from "Gina Cue" who has over 10 years of aging in his shaft stock at any time. My thinking is, do what the "Master of the Cue Universe" is doing and it can't be wrong.


At .845 I seal with a white waterborne sealer for a grain raise and then cut to final. This sealer makes the wood harder on the surface and gives me a better RMS finish on the final cuts at the snail slow speeds and feeds. You can hear the difference of the higher pitch of the saw on the wood and feel the difference with your hand at final. It works great!!!


For processing shaft wood I follow the lead of David P. Kersenbroch as described in his book of 1990. Other than the fact that I take more cuts over time ( just me being annal) I am a DPK groupie. He is another "Master of the Cue Universe" in my book and if you emulate what the best in the business does and build on their path to success, with a few incremental refinements that you can learn and make for improvement, who knows where it may take you.

One Last Thought:

IMHO, the shaft of your cue is the most important feature element concerning the way your cue hits. Your taper and the density of the wood is paramount if you want a world class hit to all of your cue. I reject all shafts under 3.9 oz and I know what that shaft is going to weigh pretty much at .925. This can be achieved by hand selecting your planks and buy the heaviest one with the straightest grain.

If my shafts have some color imperfections or a mineral spot here or there, I don't care or feel funny about it at all because the "Hit" is what I am after. If a customer gives me the inquiring eye about a mark on a shaft, I put in on the scale and ask him if he wants that 4.4 oz shaft or does he want to pick out another cue with a prettier shaft pair. When it goes to the scale, they always want it.

Everybody has their own bend to the brim concerning shaft processing. This is just the way I do it.

Rick Geschrey
Do you put your shafts inside a sealed bucket like Ernie too Rick ?
I like heavy shafts but truth be told, more world titles have been won on less than 4 oz shafts.
Do you know of any world champion who has used a 4 oz plus shaft with a parabolic taper ?
Nothing's wrong with them but most pros I know like them twig shafts.
Orcullo plays with SW with a 314 shaft.
That should be a crime but it is what it is.
 
Barrels?

Joey, Rick, somebody....tell me about these barrels. This sounds cool!

Robin
 
Joey, Rick, somebody....tell me about these barrels. This sounds cool!

Robin

Robin,

They are fiber barrels with inner hole templates that allows the shafts to hang with the tip down. I saw them on Ernies video interview and my friend has some from the Omega shop.

I don't think they do any magic to the shafts but I am all ears if someone knows a secrete!

Rick
 
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