Turning Stone - rip off

[iusedtoberich]

Ya that's true still doesn't explain where that money goes when he lets another player in on the vacant spot ,, He runs a good a good show with a iron fist as he see's fit because he has no competition he can power trip as he sees fit and make no mistake about it he's a power tripper Iv heard it for yrs


1

There was plenty of competition for the Joss tour in the Philly/NY/NJ area (I don't know about further North). In the late 90's it was the Tim Scruggs tour. In the early 2000's, it was the NE Players tour (where the tournament director stole all of the year end championship event money). Then (and still current) it was the Mezz Tour run by Burgos.

The Joss tour definitly brought the superstar players. The other tours, only brought the local and some regional players.

 

[iusedtoberich]

www.PEGTtour.com

We have over $5k added an event. $12k+ added free roll at the end of each year and average about 80 contestants played in each event, about 100 average total show up for the weekend to participate in some aspect. Guys hug each other when they lose. In pool they won't even shake hands half the time. There is no b.s. In over 40 events I have done with some extremely drunk guys, knock on wood, not one fight. And the host locations make more money in one event than all the locations combined make during MZ tour a year (not counting the casino events).

Careful here, they are completely different games. 1000's of people tried to run a pool tournament. How many of them are still going? 5? Were they all idiots? Is Zuglan an idiot? I'd wager if you took all of your skills acquired from the golf tournament, and applied it to a pool tournament/tour, you'd probably shoot yourself after one season after all of the crybabies finally got to you.

How much do you make per event?
How much do you get in sponsorship?
Why did you change my rating?
Why do you make more than the player who won, for sitting at a table all the event, and simply calling out names?
Why do you advertise money added, if you charge a greens fee? Don't they cancel each other out?
Why are you withholding 1/3 of my winnings if I'm an international player?
This cheater I'm playing keeps giving me slug racks. Forfeit him.
This other cheater I'm playing keeps giving himself perfect racks, and the wing ball is wired. Forfeit him.

That's the type of crap you will deal with every event. Good luck transferring your video golf skills over to the pool player. ha ha

 

[Nuts4Tascarellas]

Banned

My buddy just got banned because of something he said on this thread. He was saying something about someone should beat Zugland's ass with an object... so, then he gets a message saying that he is banned for suggesting an act of violence on a tournament director. My question is what makes the tournament director's well being any more important than any other kind of thief??? I have seen countless posts about people that have shipped warped cues, broken cues, etc. Many members chime in and suggest paying the guy a visit - and by the way, here's his address... I have started one of those posts myself when I got a cue with no shaft. My question is - what makes the tournament director so special? Be careful what you say on here - you could be next... I wish I could get me some of that tournament director diplomatic immunity!

 

[BeiberLvr]

My buddy just got banned because of something he said on this thread. He was saying something about someone should beat Zugland's ass with an object... so, then he gets a message saying that he is banned for suggesting an act of violence on a tournament director. My question is what makes the tournament director's well being any more important than any other kind of thief??? I have seen countless posts about people that have shipped warped cues, broken cues, etc. Many members chime in and suggest paying the guy a visit - and by the way, here's his address... I have started one of those posts myself when I got a cue with no shaft. My question is - what makes the tournament director so special? Be careful what you say on here - you could be next... I wish I could get me some of that tournament director diplomatic immunity!

You do realize that an act of physical violence is much more different (and worse) than stealing. Don't you?

 

[Nuts4Tascarellas]

Response

Well - no one got beaten... and I guess that's a matter of opinion. I would rather come home with a Black eye than have someone steal 2 grand from me. The sarcastic part of me wanted to respond with - all sins are equal in God's eyes...

 

[iusedtoberich]

My buddy just got banned because of something he said on this thread. He was saying something about someone should beat Zugland's ass with an object... so, then he gets a message saying that he is banned for suggesting an act of violence on a tournament director. My question is what makes the tournament director's well being any more important than any other kind of thief??? I have seen countless posts about people that have shipped warped cues, broken cues, etc. Many members chime in and suggest paying the guy a visit - and by the way, here's his address... I have started one of those posts myself when I got a cue with no shaft. My question is - what makes the tournament director so special? Be careful what you say on here - you could be next... I wish I could get me some of that tournament director diplomatic immunity!

-First, Zuglan is not a thief.
-Second, if a member threatens specific violence, and it is reported, they should get banned.
-Third, it must get reported for a mod to see it.
-Fourth, if a legit thief does someting like ship a box of rocks in place of a cue, and the members here make threats to beat his ass and give his address, no one is going to report that to the mods. And even if they do, I doubt the mods would ban the person who threatened in that case.
-Circle back to #1, Zuglan is not a thief.

 

[pt109]

I wonder when the shoe will drop and he says, never mind, just kidding, like the curve bank thread with Bob and Dr. Dave.

In the meantime Mike Z has been slammed on the forum and in a deleted post someone threatened him with violence (putting billiard balls in a sock and slamming him in the head).

My buddy just got banned because of something he said on this thread. He was saying something about someone should beat Zugland's ass with an object... so, then he gets a message saying that he is banned for suggesting an act of violence on a tournament director. My question is what makes the tournament director's well being any more important than any other kind of thief??? I have seen countless posts about people that have shipped warped cues, broken cues, etc. Many members chime in and suggest paying the guy a visit - and by the way, here's his address... I have started one of those posts myself when I got a cue with no shaft. My question is - what makes the tournament director so special? Be careful what you say on here - you could be next... I wish I could get me some of that tournament director diplomatic immunity!

Are you kidding me?
You think you're going to muster some sympathy for a guy who suggested hitting somebody
with a sockful of billiard balls?
Maybe you should google "completely out of line"

 

[Ky Boy]

Read it ALL.

Had lots of laughs.

SMHALOT.

Some people...geez. :crying:

I see both sides.

Ultimately, has nothing to do with morals. It's an implied contract. You pay, you play.

No refunds and no transfers.

If ya don't like the policy, kick your can on down the road.

NEXT

 

[JoeyA]

Intentionally trying to hurt someone's business.

Cleary doesn't like the rules that Mike Zuglan has put into effect for Turning Stone.

Cleary whines nonstop about his "morals" being superior to most everyone in pool.

Practically everyone in the pool world thinks Mike Zuglan is one of the best tournament directors and promoters around and the event is sold out each and every year, making lots of people happy.....but.......

Cleary accuses Mike Zuglan of doing "shady business".

Cleary has never played in this event, has no interest in playing in this event, YET, he starts a thread suggesting that Turning Stone is "rip off" but when in fact, by the vast majority of the people in the pool world say it is one of the most popular, most well-run and successful tournaments of the decade.

Cleary's morals are beyond reproach, SAID NO ONE EVER, especially after this thread and his whiney rebukes from just about everyone who posts in this thread.

Cleary is simply a hater of the Turning Stone event and Mike Zuglan but has no interest in it, except to run it and Mike Zuglan down. That's disgusting.

So Cleary thinks that it is perfectly okay to make disparaging remarks and suggest that Mike Zuglan is doing "shady business" when everyone knows how everything is handled. That's a fine set of morals you got there Cleary. Lol

JoeyA

 

[Nick B]

I know many people around my speed or worse that play in this event all the time. I'm also friends with many top players from all over who ask, because I live somewhat close. Some of them don't care about the policy. Others do. Some have backed out (for very good reasons). Yes, I cannot win. My first post was very clear.. I stated two reasons I would never play. One of them was because I can't win. The same could be said for all but one person who's posted in this thread. I've played in other events I cannot win too... because it was fun though. Maybe you don't know me as well as you think?

The bar for ethics in pool is just low I guess. I expect better of myself and others. I guess that's just not the case with pool. Just saying, my Fargo rating isn't much but my ethics rating is on par with my credit.

Cleary,
Not to be a "word-nazi" but Ethics simply put is the way you conduct yourself when nobody is watching. Mike is very up front with his policy. I'm afraid you are on the wrong side of this one. When I go to McDonalds and ask for no ketchup on my burger I don't get a discount....but wait that ketchup can just go on the next burger. Maybe but life isn't like that. In short you are complaining about a good man who by all accounts runs a great event. It's kind of like a super successful restaurant that doesn't take reservations. I may never get to go...but the owner is so busy he doesn't care.

 

[playpool2]

"Forgot to take the balls back and pick up my license "

No mention of leaving without paying. You are lucky they didn't call the police.

You got off easy. Some would say you are a thief and probably shouldn't be allowed back!

 

[Johnnyt]

Cleary doesn't like the rules that Mike Zuglan has put into effect for Turning Stone.

Cleary whines nonstop about his "morals" being superior to most everyone in pool.

Practically everyone in the pool world thinks Mike Zuglan is one of the best tournament directors and promoters around and the event is sold out each and every year, making lots of people happy.....but.......

Cleary accuses Mike Zuglan of doing "shady business".

Cleary has never played in this event, has no interest in playing in this event, YET, he starts a thread suggesting that Turning Stone is "rip off" but when in fact, by the vast majority of the people in the pool world say it is one of the most popular, most well-run and successful tournaments of the decade.

Cleary's morals are beyond reproach, SAID NO ONE EVER, especially after this thread and his whiney rebukes from just about everyone who posts in this thread.

Cleary is simply a hater of the Turning Stone event and Mike Zuglan but has no interest in it, except to run it and Mike Zuglan down. That's disgusting.

So Cleary thinks that it is perfectly okay to make disparaging remarks and suggest that Mike Zuglan is doing "shady business" when everyone knows how everything is handled. That's a fine set of morals you got there Cleary. Lol

JoeyA

Probably one of his NY friends paid and can't make it=no refund. Johnnyt

 

[Get_A_Grip]

"Forgot to take the balls back and pick up my license "



No mention of leaving without paying. You are lucky they didn't call the police.



You got off easy. Some would say you are a thief and probably shouldn't be allowed back!

Heck, I've already left my cue and case in the restaurant in the pool room by mistake. Mistakes happen. By your theory I could call the police and accuse the room of theft of my cue. LOL

BTW, needing to pay was mentioned, just not in the sentence you quoted.

 

[rjb1168]

Turning stone is a great tournament that I have enjoyed watching and hope to continue to do so. If you know the rules going in then there is no problem! Case Closed!:thumbup:

 

[JAM]

As is the same for many of us on this forum, Mike Zuglan is passionate about pool, so much so that he decided that if he didn't like the way tournaments were handled that he attended when he was on the tournament trail, then, by golly, he'll create his own pool tour. And that he did.

I do understand the uproar about the no-refund policy, but after reading through this thread and stepping over the mud puddles, I understand Mike Zuglan's stance more clearly.

But I can definitely empathize with Cleary's sentiment.

The thing is, though, the Joss Tour is *not* a non-profit entity. I do know firsthand the expenses involved in running a pool tournament, e.g., advertising, phone calls, printed media, bookkeeping for taxes including the 1099s for winnings more than $600, accounts receivable/payable for entry fees, travel expenses to include gas and car wear-and-tear and time driving, hotel, meals, et cetera, et cetera. For a tour, the expenses must be monumental compared to one isolated tournament. In order to run a tour, all of this must be taken into consideration.

The Turning Stone event requires having Diamond tables and lights shipped in and set up, which I'm sure is very expensive.

With all that taken into consideration, I understand better the no-refund policy. It is okay for Cleary to not like it. There's a lot of pool rules I don't care for too. But Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour is not a non-profit organization. Of course, he is supposed to make a living, and truth be told, I don't know how he does it with all the associated expenses. He must like eating at McDonald's and sleeping in flea bag hotels when on the road because nobody is going to get rich running a pool tour.

I do not agree with some of the pool leagues' method of payouts. There's a lot of missing money there, but nobody utters a peep about that.

Everything's funny when you're earning big money, but nobody in the pool world is getting fat except the industry members who belong to the BCA organization and WPA.

The rest of us can scramble for table scraps left over, if there is any, while the existing lot of professional players in America continues to dwindle.

A photo of Turning Stone tables. Beautiful venue!

 

[mikepage]

[...] When I go to McDonalds and ask for no ketchup on my burger I don't get a discount....but wait that ketchup can just go on the next burger. [...]

Whoa... I order with no pickles. What DOES McDonalds do with MY pickles? I sure hope they don't pocket them, because with your ketchup and who knows WHAT else, that'd be pretty gross by the end of the day.

 

[MOJOE]

I think what Joey has to say here seems to be spot on. Sounds like the policy is clear as a bell.

Cleary doesn't like the rules that Mike Zuglan has put into effect for Turning Stone.

Cleary whines nonstop about his "morals" being superior to most everyone in pool.

Practically everyone in the pool world thinks Mike Zuglan is one of the best tournament directors and promoters around and the event is sold out each and every year, making lots of people happy.....but.......

Cleary accuses Mike Zuglan of doing "shady business".

Cleary has never played in this event, has no interest in playing in this event, YET, he starts a thread suggesting that Turning Stone is "rip off" but when in fact, by the vast majority of the people in the pool world say it is one of the most popular, most well-run and successful tournaments of the decade.

Cleary's morals are beyond reproach, SAID NO ONE EVER, especially after this thread and his whiney rebukes from just about everyone who posts in this thread.

Cleary is simply a hater of the Turning Stone event and Mike Zuglan but has no interest in it, except to run it and Mike Zuglan down. That's disgusting.

So Cleary thinks that it is perfectly okay to make disparaging remarks and suggest that Mike Zuglan is doing "shady business" when everyone knows how everything is handled. That's a fine set of morals you got there Cleary. Lol

JoeyA

 

[KAP1976]

18. 18 pages on a non-issue. Well done.

 

[WoodyMPW]

Who did you steak that can't make it?

 

[cleary]

Cleary, you're a little off. IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY A GONNA buy a house you will give them " earnest money " . That is a deposit, and it means you intend to buy the property. IF FOR ANY REASON YOU DO NOT BUY, then that " earnest money is gone. Don you know hownthisnworks, have you been thru this? Doesn't matter if you 3rd cuz is having a baby while your mom is being sicken up into a spaceship while your dad Is growing a third arm . Doesn't matter. You enter into a contract and you give money as required and that is it. Period. Can't see how anyone can't understand this, nor how anyone can't accept this. This is simple grown up stuff , period.

Having a hard time translating this to English but from what I understand of it, I didn't do that when I bought my house. Sorry.