Turning Stone XL

[VVP]

Now how long till the first response of "oh he is old school. he can do what he wants. he don't care, he fills it up every year, he doesn't have to accommodate". Blah blah blah.

Can look up the past dozen TS threads and they have these same comments.



A fairly irrelevant tournament.

Lol. I never made any of those comments, but they are spot on as far as it relates to MZ.

If his tournament is full and he has to drop a Fargo 200 to bring in a Fargo 800 plus, it's not going to happen. Love him or hate him, but he has his principles.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I asked him once and he said that he has no problem using the template, but they keep disappearing on him. Don't think that's a good enough reason for a large tournament that is prone to racking problems, but Mike is Mike. I would be surprised if he starts using templates.

That is one lame excuse, as I’m sure an unlimited number of new ones could be provided for the event, most likely at no or minimal cost to him.

 

[kingwang]

Lol. I never made any of those comments, but they are spot on as far as it relates to MZ.

If his tournament is full and he has to drop a Fargo 200 to bring in a Fargo 800 plus, it's not going to happen. Love him or hate him, but he has his principles.

+1, I know some world class players that wanted a spot but couldn't get in. But hey, sticking to your principles no matter what isn't the worst thing. There aren't too many guys like him left.

 

[benny-the-blade]

I would have given the OP action, but there isn’t an advanced players list anymore. Mike‘s only way to prevent a calcutta is to wait until the last minute to release a bracket. Stinks for those of us who want to bet before the event starts. Personally, I like Lee Van Corteza’s chances.

Unlike most of my posts, this one aged well.

 

[ribdoner]

who won?

 

[benny-the-blade]

who won?

Lee Van Corteza.

 

[BasementDweller]

Why should Zuglan care at all about the top players? They aren't the ones that have kept him in the game this long. He has figured out a working formula that's kept his regional tour going maybe longer than any other. Actually, catering to top pros would be a slap in the face to the all the players that have kept him going.

 

[ribdoner]

Lee Van Corteza.

THANKS!!

 

[AtLarge]

Why should Zuglan care at all about the top players? They aren't the ones that have kept him in the game this long. He has figured out a working formula that's kept his regional tour going maybe longer than any other. Actually, catering to top pros would be a slap in the face to the all the players that have kept him going.

Speaking of keeping him going ...

Zuglan's standard procedure at each Turning Stone tournament has been to announce the dates of the next one, and then start taking entries right away. He didn't do that this time, saying that he is still in negotiation with Turning Stone to have another tournament. That certainly makes me worry a bit as to the event's future.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Why should Zuglan care at all about the top players? They aren't the ones that have kept him in the game this long. He has figured out a working formula that's kept his regional tour going maybe longer than any other. Actually, catering to top pros would be a slap in the face to the all the players that have kept him going.

Maybe this is insignificant, but.... Some spectators will go to the event and stay at the hotel in order to see top players. If the field is diluted, that could stop and the hotel would want to change the deal because they are making less from rooms/food. Some of the tour regulars may really like the chance to play top players.

 

[jbart65]

+1, I know some world class players that wanted a spot but couldn't get in. But hey, sticking to your principles no matter what isn't the worst thing. There aren't too many guys like him left.

Hard disagree. Sticking to one's principles "no matter what" is sheer pig-headedness. Principles are good to have and stick too generally, but when conditions change, people sometimes should change their mind or way of doing things.

Neuhausen had his chances, but Corteza was more a bit more steady.

 

[BasementDweller]

Maybe this is insignificant, but.... Some spectators will go to the event and stay at the hotel in order to see top players. If the field is diluted, that could stop and the hotel would want to change the deal because they are making less from rooms/food. Some of the tour regulars may really like the chance to play top players.

Maybe so. I'm sure some like playing them. I'm sure others like winning money. Guess I'm just looking at it from Zuglan's point of view. The whole racking thing proves he's a quite stubborn guy but at the same time he's kept things rolling.

It's never really seemed like anyone on AZ is very close to him and could really report what makes the guy tick.

 

[jay helfert]

Maybe so. I'm sure some like playing them. I'm sure others like winning money. Guess I'm just looking at it from Zuglan's point of view. The whole racking thing proves he's a quite stubborn guy but at the same time he's kept things rolling.

It's never really seemed like anyone on AZ is very close to him and could really report what makes the guy tick.

I've known Mike a long time and he is a very principled man who I have the utmost respect for. He has worked tirelessly to keep the Joss Tour going full steam year after year, providing a full slate of tournaments for the most avid players in the Northeast.

I don't begrudge him the fact that he actually makes a living from his endeavors. In fact that makes me admire him even more.

 

[KAP1976]

Speaking of keeping him going ...

Zuglan's standard procedure at each Turning Stone tournament has been to announce the dates of the next one, and then start taking entries right away. He didn't do that this time, saying that he is still in negotiation with Turning Stone to have another tournament. That certainly makes me worry a bit as to the event's future.

Make that two of us. I know he lost the carpet in the last negotiation because they wanted more out of him.

 

[fjk]

For some reason, the Turning Stone is attracting less and less pros. 20 years ago it seems like the field was half pros. From a fan / audience perspective, it's more fun watching pros bang heads than recreational players bang heads with hobby players.

The stands were almost empty for this tournament. Mike is going to need to fill those stands and book more rooms to keep that tournament there. I hope he does, it's a great venue.

 

[kkdanamatt]

Mike Zuglan usually begins to sign up players for Turning Stone one year in advance, capping the entrants at 128.
Once Zuglan collects the entry fee, there is a no refund policy.
That's why most top touring pros, especially those from Europe and Asia, don't play.
Most of the top pros from outside North America can't commit a year in advance.
Despite those restrictions, Turning Stone fills up every year, so why would Zuglan change his policies?
Now, this year, I heard that Zuglan did not sign up players for next year.
There may be a problem with the Turning Stone Casino wanting to change their contract with Zuglan.
I hope they can work it out so the TS can continue to thrive.

 

[fjk]

Despite those restrictions, Turning Stone fills up every year, so why would Zuglan change his policies?

Because filling up with more pros would draw more spectators. A certain percentage of spectators buy cue raffle tickets, book rooms, gamble, purchase from the concession stand, and eat at Turning Stone restaurants. That may entice Turning Stone to keep the event there and keep adding that 25K (I would guess that's the TS adding that 25K, not sure though).

Don't get me wrong, I think Zuglan runs a great tour, but he may need to be flexible and tweak it a little if he wants to continue that deal with the TS.

 

[skogstokig]

Because filling up with more pros would draw more spectators. A certain percentage of spectators buy cue raffle tickets, book rooms, gamble, purchase from the concession stand, and eat at Turning Stone restaurants. That may entice Turning Stone to keep the event there and keep adding that 25K (I would guess that's the TS adding that 25K, not sure though).

Don't get me wrong, I think Zuglan runs a great tour, but he may need to be flexible and tweak it a little if he wants to continue that deal with the TS.

since every pro player and their mother is moaning about the racking when the subject of TS comes up, that very easy fix may go a long way to attract more pros

 

[trob]

Maybe this is insignificant, but.... Some spectators will go to the event and stay at the hotel in order to see top players. If the field is diluted, that could stop and the hotel would want to change the deal because they are making less from rooms/food. Some of the tour regulars may really like the chance to play top players

Thats a big part of it..

For some reason, the Turning Stone is attracting less and less pros. 20 years ago it seems like the field was half pros. From a fan / audience perspective, it's more fun watching pros bang heads than recreational players bang heads with hobby players.

The stands were almost empty for this tournament. Mike is going to need to fill those stands and book more rooms to keep that tournament there. I hope he does, it's a great venue.

The reason is simple. Back then there were few big tournaments. The expo 10 ball tournament was huge then to. With matchroom and the predator coming along they just don’t need to travel to these tournaments where they have to finish in the top16 just to hope to break even.

 

[AtLarge]

... (I would guess that's the TS adding that 25K, not sure though). ...

Yes, Turning Stone adds $25,000. This was the 36th event in a row (starting with Aug. 2005's TS V) with the same amount of added money.