Turning Stone XL

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
For some reason, the Turning Stone is attracting less and less pros. 20 years ago it seems like the field was half pros. From a fan / audience perspective, it's more fun watching pros bang heads than recreational players bang heads with hobby players.

The stands were almost empty for this tournament. Mike is going to need to fill those stands and book more rooms to keep that tournament there. I hope he does, it's a great venue.
128 players plus their friends and family fill a lot of rooms. TS is a mid level event on the pro calendar. It is and always has been a good regional tournament, more geared to the better players in the Northeast, the same ones who support Mike's other tournaments.

I long encouraged Mike to make a small increase to the entry fee so the first prize could be increased to 10,000. It just looks more appealing than the 8,000 it had been forever. He finally did that just a couple of years ago.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
128 players plus their friends and family fill a lot of rooms. TS is a mid level event on the pro calendar. It is and always has been a good regional tournament, more geared to the better players in the Northeast, the same ones who support Mike's other tournaments.

I long encouraged Mike to make a small increase to the entry fee so the first prize could be increased to 10,000. It just looks more appealing than the 8,000 it had been forever. He finally did that just a couple of years ago.
There's a long list to play. Maybe he should raise the entry sustainability to allure more pros. 200 is cheap nowadays. Doesn't a round of gold cost that?

20-25 years ago that tournament had a more exciting feel to it. Efron used to play along with dozens of other pros.

I don't go to all of them, but the stands were 95% empty this year. Gotta try something!
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Because filling up with more pros would draw more spectators. A certain percentage of spectators buy cue raffle tickets, book rooms, gamble, purchase from the concession stand, and eat at Turning Stone restaurants. That may entice Turning Stone to keep the event there and keep adding that 25K (I would guess that's the TS adding that 25K, not sure though).

Don't get me wrong, I think Zuglan runs a great tour, but he may need to be flexible and tweak it a little if he wants to continue that deal with the TS.
I think Miller Lite was $12/ can at concession.

I ate at the TS Steakhouse 3 nights and only saw 1 person i could identify as a player in there(I'm local-ish) so I really don't count due to me eating there at least once/month.

There was mention that the players took up a bunch of rooms and therefore the bars/restaurants weren't as busy 🤷‍♂️
 

Rickhem

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because filling up with more pros would draw more spectators. A certain percentage of spectators buy cue raffle tickets, book rooms, gamble, purchase from the concession stand, and eat at Turning Stone restaurants. That may entice Turning Stone to keep the event there and keep adding that 25K (I would guess that's the TS adding that 25K, not sure though).
We live a little less than 90 minutes drive east of Turning Stone, and we try to make the trip for a full day whenever they have this tournament. I have pool friends that play in the event, and we went up on Friday this time, so we got to watch them play in-person. Just as you reference, we bought raffle tickets, bought something from a vendor, we gambled a bit, and we bought food from the concession stand (two different times). We were there from about noon, until after the 10:00pm round that night. We usually do eat dinner at either the steakhouse or the tavern, but with people I knew still playing, we went with the snack bar concession, and ate while we watched. Food from the snack bar was actually pretty good and about half price compared to the food court downstairs.

I also got an email from Turning Stone asking about my visit, probably due to my using my player's card while gambling, and not having been there in a long time. It asked the usual service related questions, but it also asked what the purpose of my visit was, and I made it clear that the pool tournament was the main purpose. Of late, I have been seeing a lot of adverts about working at TS in a number of capacities, full or part-time, so they might be hurting for employees, and looking to deal with some other problems. We walked through the casino when we first got there, and it was not at all busy, with very few gaming tables open, aside from the slots. A bit busier later at about 5:30, with a few more tables open, and it looked like business as usual with everything open at about midnight when we left. All that aside, there is a great deal of construction going on around the casino and hotel. It's just about surrounded by fenced off construction sites, and I doubt that they are more parking garages.

Mike did announce something about him still being in negotiations with the casino for the next event around Labor Day, and they didn't have a date set for that. Whether that is because there are other activities at the casino around then, or if they are rethinking their support of the event, who knows. I think that the event center is a great venue for this event, and the stands on either side of the room have ample comfortable seating to watch whatever match you'd like to see, and still be able to watch a number of other matches at the same time. So as a spectator, I think it works incredibly well, and offers a great deal beyond the pool itself, but I know nothing about the business side of things.
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll say this about Mike Zuglan and this event. If he loses his contract with the Turning Stone casino, he would have no problem finding a new venue to sell this to as who wouldn't want to have an event that basically sells out within hours of it's announcing? Sure, it'll be in a smaller venue and maybe there will be no casino, but the fact is it produces players/the community who supports it and that's all people who have rental spaces care about.

As for this losing its luster of being a great pro event, I don't think Mike Zuglan cares. He's been running a solid ship now for who knows how long, so why would he care about what us here on a forum are complaining about?
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That was the year I went. August/September 2022. I think he was already in the losers bracket, and the number mentioned at the time was about $40k. Here's the thread:


In the thread, Shane confirmed (on FB?) that the cash and imminent travel to the Philippines was the issue.
....and this is why your excuse for being late or no showing in life is DIARRHEA.
It pretty much ends the questioning.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll say this about Mike Zuglan and this event. If he loses his contract with the Turning Stone casino, he would have no problem finding a new venue to sell this to as who wouldn't want to have an event that basically sells out within hours of it's announcing? Sure, it'll be in a smaller venue and maybe there will be no casino, but the fact is it produces players/the community who supports it and that's all people who have rental spaces care about.

As for this losing its luster of being a great pro event, I don't think Mike Zuglan cares. He's been running a solid ship now for who knows how long, so why would he care about what us here on a forum are complaining about?
Are you forgetting that the Turning Stone is adding 25K to every one of those tournaments? Sure, Mike can find another vendue (which will not be as nice), but good luck finding another 25K sponsor.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Are you forgetting that the Turning Stone is adding 25K to every one of those tournaments? Sure, Mike can find another vendue (which will not be as nice), but good luck finding another 25K sponsor.
I can't believe anybody sponsors pool.

Seriously, what product could you sell to the cheapest population in history to make up the 25k(or whatever) and turn a profit?

I'll wait
 
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