U.S. Open Checks Bounced???

[Kid Dynomite]

The BCA and WPA need to release a statement!!! My opinion!!! In support of the players and with hold sanctioning and support of the US Open until all money is paid in full!!! Any player participating in US Open will lose eligibility to partake in WPA and BCA sanctioned events for one year if they cross the picket line!!! You really need to DROP THE HAMMER!!!

As far as buying the US OPEN name!!! Mr. Griffin don't do it!!! You can create your own event in the Mid Atlantic area and get as much if not more support then what Barry gets and it won't COST you a dime. Put that money back in your pocket and compete against Barry.

Atlantic City, Ocean City, Virginia Beach and even Charleston, WV has slots and other attractions in the Mid-Atlantic. Plus, the players will pick your East Coast event over the open because of its bad reputation.

When you see an opportunity like this it is time to POUNCE!!!

KD

 

[12squared]

What hapened to the prize money being escrowed. Wasn't that supposed to start last year?

That was my understanding, too, John. By the way, how the heck are you? I hear you did well in the Chuck M. memorial.

 

[Jesters]

Yes, the BCA does escrow the entry fees, and then they release the funds to BB during Open.

With a field of 230 players the BCA would have collected appx. 115K, and to my understanding provides a report to BB and ABP to let them know how much funds have been collected and are available.

The BCA began to escrow the funds last year to help make the process more transparent for the players. The BCA simply doesn't have the bandwidth to send someone to personally cut checks to every player, only to get stiffed by BB as well. The BCA does this as a FREE service for the Players and for the Open.

What Barry does with the money when he gets it, is, well, up to Barry.

Well that sounds like a waste of everyones time. It worked last year so why did it not work this year? Due to BB having over $70k in unexpected incidentals with the new venue? Come on.

 

[Jesters]

The BCA and WPA need to release a statement!!! My opinion!!! In support of the players and with hold sanctioning and support of the US Open until all money is paid in full!!! Any player participating in US Open will lose eligibility to partake in WPA and BCA sanctioned events for one year if they cross the picket line!!! You really need to DROP THE HAMMER!!!

As far as buying the US OPEN name!!! Mr. Griffin don't do it!!! You can create your own event in the Mid Atlantic area and get as much if not more support then what Barry gets and it won't COST you a dime. Put that money back in your pocket and compete against Barry.

Atlantic City, Ocean City, Virginia Beach and even Charleston, WV has slots and other attractions in the Mid-Atlantic. Plus, the players will pick your East Coast event over the open because of its bad reputation.

When you see an opportunity like this it is time to POUNCE!!!

KD

There is only one U,S Open though. Anyone can create a tourney but I think the U.S Open has a certain pretige to it that can't be re created too easy and get the support it would need. Just my opinion.

 

[CallShotCowboy]

It worked last year so why did it not work this year? .

That answer is easy, I'll give you hint: two words, both start with the second letter of the alphabet.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

BCA action

Yes, the BCA does escrow the entry fees, and then they release the funds to BB during Open.

With a field of 230 players the BCA would have collected appx. 115K, and to my understanding provides a report to BB and ABP to let them know how much funds have been collected and are available.

The BCA began to escrow the funds last year to help make the process more transparent for the players. The BCA simply doesn't have the bandwidth to send someone to personally cut checks to every player, only to get stiffed by BB as well. The BCA does this as a FREE service for the Players and for the Open.

What Barry does with the money when he gets it, is, well, up to Barry.

Obviously the BCA needs to take some imediate legal action on several fronts.

 

[sixpack]

Yes, the BCA does escrow the entry fees, and then they release the funds to BB during Open.

With a field of 230 players the BCA would have collected appx. 115K, and to my understanding provides a report to BB and ABP to let them know how much funds have been collected and are available.

The BCA began to escrow the funds last year to help make the process more transparent for the players. The BCA simply doesn't have the bandwidth to send someone to personally cut checks to every player, only to get stiffed by BB as well. The BCA does this as a FREE service for the Players and for the Open.

What Barry does with the money when he gets it, is, well, up to Barry.

That's not an escrow.

~rc

 

[Jesters]

Obviously the BCA needs to take some imediate legal action on several fronts.

Is it the BCA's fault? Just asking here. We all saw that BB said that he could not let the ABP be a co sanctioning body and so to a point the ABP could not do anything. So when the BCA sanctions any event what responsibility do they take on as part of that sanctioning? We know that they can then use their point system to draw in the players who are looking to points for Mosconi Cup or international invites. But other than that is there any other responsibilities? Oh and we know it has to be a $20k added event right? But how do they know the promoter has the added money unless they hold it? Just asking and by NO means am I trying to blame the BCA for this that is BB's problem.

 

[cmsmith9]

Would moving the US Open to a place like NJ/NYC help fill seats and maybe help meet the gate expectations?

 

[Kid Dynomite]

There is only one U,S Open though. Anyone can create a tourney but I think the U.S Open has a certain pretige to it that can't be re created too easy and get the support it would need. Just my opinion.

Ask Shane, Mika or Johnny if they care what the title of the event is as long as they are getting paid???

Ask the fans if they care what the title of the event is as long as the best players are in attendance and the best player is Crowned victorious???

My point is that the US OPEN has nothing to offer Mr. Griffin that he can't create himself or do on his own.

He can make his event the same week and in any Mid Atlantic location and you WILL see the US OPEN as a GHOST TOWN!!!

My Opinion again!!
KD

 

[beav99_4life]

Am I the only one who thinks this shit is absolutely HILARIOUS?! I mean how many years can you play in an event and have the same thing happen with payouts before you lose your right to b*tch? If you come to my house 5 days in a row and I kick you in the nuts when you walk through the door each day, on that 6th day is it your fault or mine if you choose to walk through that door again? Yes, I know that this is how they make their money and that they'll never protest this tournament, but at some point you have to accept that "kick in the nuts" if you're going to walk through the door again. I used to go nuts on BB being a douche for treating the players this way, but obviously the players are masochists and enjoy it.

 

[Jesters]

Ask Shane, Mika or Johnny if they care what the title of the event is as long as they are getting paid???

Ask the fans if they care what the title of the event is as long as the best players are in attendance and the best player is Crowned victorious???

My point is that the US OPEN has nothing to offer Mr. Griffin that he can't create himself or do on his own.

He can make his event the same week and in any Mid Atlantic location and you WILL see the US OPEN as a GHOST TOWN!!!

My Opinion again!!
KD

I don't agree, that does not mean you are wrong as you know. I agree that we could hold a touney in my back yard and as long as the guys get paid its a good tourney. I do believe that they obviously want to get paid but I think that being a US Open 9-ball Champion is worth alot more to them that you think. I hate to bring golf into it but if a tourney was held the same week as the Masters that paid more money that the players would not want to be at the masters? Thats all I am saying. I also think that the fans save up part of the year to be able to say they are going to the US Open. So on those counts I do not agree. I would love to actually know from the players how much the title means to them and also if the fans care if its the US Open or the National Open. I feel the US Open has a loyal following.

 

[TATE]

Barry Behrman Makes Statement About U.S. Open Prize Fund

"It is with regret that I have to announce that due to a lack of seating (that I admit I did not properly envision) that I am having to delay the prize payments to my top 6 finishers at the U.S. Open. Shannon and I had many extra expenses this year such as building the wooden risers for the seats, and that along with the large storm that forced many to leave the event early caused a major problem with our receivables. We were unable to provide proper seating for many fans and this caused us to come up between $20-30,000 short of our projections in the $10 all day and $10 all night ticket category alone. This was a major source of the shortfall. Another source is my insistence on adding the full $60,000 that I promised to add prior to having the difficulties explained above.

We expect all debts to be covered within the next two weeks. We still have sufficient revenues coming in from the event and will pay the money out as quickly as it comes in.
Finally, we hear you and agree with you. Next year we will be in one big room for the whole tournament again. It just works better for everyone and we have learned from our mistakes.

By Barry Behrman - 2012-10-31"

I put this in the other thread, but this seems to be the hot thread. Here's an open letter back to Barry:


" Barry, the prize winner's aren't a BANK. They have no interest in financing your business ventures.

Oh yes and let me add, sign a personal note of guarantee NOW to each one of them. Add 1.5% per month interest.

One more thing - find a bank.

One more thing - find some self respect, beause no self-respecting businessman would expect their customers to finance their pathetic, habitually crappy, cash flow planning.

One more thing - why mention Shannon's name in the such a negative announcement? "

 

[JCIN]

The BCA and WPA need to release a statement!!! My opinion!!! In support of the players and with hold sanctioning and support of the US Open until all money is paid in full!!! Any player participating in US Open will lose eligibility to partake in WPA and BCA sanctioned events for one year if they cross the picket line!!! You really need to DROP THE HAMMER!!!

As far as buying the US OPEN name!!! Mr. Griffin don't do it!!! You can create your own event in the Mid Atlantic area and get as much if not more support then what Barry gets and it won't COST you a dime. Put that money back in your pocket and compete against Barry.

Atlantic City, Ocean City, Virginia Beach and even Charleston, WV has slots and other attractions in the Mid-Atlantic. Plus, the players will pick your East Coast event over the open because of its bad reputation.

When you see an opportunity like this it is time to POUNCE!!!

KD

Barry has an event with the most history of any in this country and he flirts with bankruptcy every year to do it. Not sure starting another one from scratch is the type of opportunity Mark is looking for.

Barry has no casino help, I'm sure he gets little if any money from room rebates and the sponsor/ad base has been shrinking for the last decade. Barry doesnt not pay because he's keeping money for himself he doesn't pay because he doesn't have the money. Some of his ad/sponsor money doesnt come in until after the event but I suspect most of the money comes from his pool room making up the shortage which is why it takes months to cover the nut.

Barry simply adds too much money and bets on the gate to make up the difference. More often than not he loses thus the infamous "payment plan".

Archer told me the ABP never expected Barry to post the added money. They know he doesn't have it going in. They wanted THEIR money (entries) guaranteed by posting it with the BCA.

This could be the end of the Open I am afraid. The event has no venue as of now and we now know the old one isnt financially feasible even if he could/would go back. If Barry owes the hotel or contractors it could make getting a new venue difficult. Plus the fans and players are just tired of it. Its an old rickety camel and this is a big straw.

I hope Barry pays these guys off in two weeks (never gona happen IMO) and next year only adds what he really can afford even if its only $25K. It pisses me off that it was such a good tournament this year and we have to talk about this same old bullsh!t again.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

I was thinking

Is it the BCA's fault? Just asking here. We all saw that BB said that he could not let the ABP be a co sanctioning body and so to a point the ABP could not do anything. So when the BCA sanctions any event what responsibility do they take on as part of that sanctioning? We know that they can then use their point system to draw in the players who are looking to points for Mosconi Cup or international invites. But other than that is there any other responsibilities? Oh and we know it has to be a $20k added event right? But how do they know the promoter has the added money unless they hold it? Just asking and by NO means am I trying to blame the BCA for this that is BB's problem.

I was thinking more along the lines taking legal action to force payment of funds. You would think they had a plan for that before they decided to accept the funds on behalf of the players and before releasing the funds.... I highy doubt they will be associated with the US Open next year in any capacity if its present owners are still involved. Just my opinion.

 

[CallShotCowboy]

So when the BCA sanctions any event what responsibility do they take on as part of that sanctioning? We know that they can then use their point system to draw in the players who are looking to points for Mosconi Cup or international invites. But other than that is there any other responsibilities? Oh and we know it has to be a $20k added event right? But how do they know the promoter has the added money unless they hold it? Just asking and by NO means am I trying to blame the BCA for this that is BB's problem.

So let's take a stab and some of these - 1st it has to be $25K and not 20K.

But I think the BCA has taken the approach to only escrow the funds if asked to escrow the funds. As for the other BCA sanctioned events in the US, those promoters, (Zuglan, Griffin, Hopkins have a stellar track record with the players) thus the BCA has never been asked to escrow the funds.

To answer your question on what responsibility the BCA has in sanctioning those events is much more complex and I'm sure many people would love debate the perceived responsibility of the BCA.

I know their is no sanctioning fee the BCA receives for any BCA sanctioned event, I know BB didn't pay anything to the BCA to escrow the funds.

 

[Jesters]

Am I the only one who thinks this shit is absolutely HILARIOUS?! I mean how many years can you play in an event and have the same thing happen with payouts before you lose your right to b*tch? If you come to my house 5 days in a row and I kick you in the nuts when you walk through the door each day, on that 6th day is it your fault or mine if you choose to walk through that door again? Yes, I know that this is how they make their money and that they'll never protest this tournament, but at some point you have to accept that "kick in the nuts" if you're going to walk through the door again. I used to go nuts on BB being a douche for treating the players this way, but obviously the players are masochists and enjoy it.

Beav, I get what you are saying. Last year he did what he was supposed to do and promised that it was all figured out and that it would be the same again. So I guess all they can do is trust that he had changed. The added kicker in this Beav is that alot of people were trying to get the points for the Mosconi Cup and felt that they needed to go for that alone.

Wondering now if the BCA needs to look at if those points even count. The only reason it was a points event is that it has over $20k added money. Well it obviously didn't. I know the players can't be penalized and points stripped due to BB not paying but at the end of the day he got BCA sanctioning and top players in attendance based on that BCA points and sanctioning.

So can I hold that tourney in my back yard and say its gonna be $50k added and get Efren, Busti, Appleton, Archer, SVB, etc at my house and they come because its points? The n stiff em? I got what I wanted? I got the best in the world to come play in my event, I got the sponsorship, recognition and by the way my pool room I own if full everynight for a week that makes me a nice chunk. Ok so I payed most of the people the others can just wait. Hey I got what I wanted. Maybe I will do it again next year.

 

[CallShotCowboy]

That's not an escrow.

~rc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escrow

Please explain.

 

[JCIN]

Am I the only one who thinks this shit is absolutely HILARIOUS?! I mean how many years can you play in an event and have the same thing happen with payouts before you lose your right to b*tch? If you come to my house 5 days in a row and I kick you in the nuts when you walk through the door each day, on that 6th day is it your fault or mine if you choose to walk through that door again? Yes, I know that this is how they make their money and that they'll never protest this tournament, but at some point you have to accept that "kick in the nuts" if you're going to walk through the door again. I used to go nuts on BB being a douche for treating the players this way, but obviously the players are masochists and enjoy it.

Lot of truth to this.

The Open means a lot to the players. Most know the deal going in and they do eventually get paid. Its like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football.

Every year Barry bullshits them and every year they say "This year it will be different." Basically pool players are like Cubs fans.

Personally I find that level of optimism refreshing in sick kind of way. .

 

[Fatboy]

If you were to hold a tournament. Would you start the event if you didn't have the prize fund in place and all other incidentals? I am gonna guess that you would not as I hear you are a good businessman. I understand that things can come up that are not expected and those things will cut into the promoters profit, I repeat (THE PROMOTERS PROFIT) Even so I find it very hard to believe that over $70,000 worth of unexpected expense came along.

Your right, when i have ever promised anything in pool, the players always have been paid. I wouldnt hold a event and hope that the $$ would magically show up. I'd advertise what $$$ I had to pay them with, if its not enough I would go to the players and see if they still wanted the event or not(based on the $$ I had to pay them). Thats what i'd do, I wouldnt promise $$ I didnt have or thought, hoped I'd somehow get. Thats the rite way to do biz.