Understanding Cue Shaft Flexibility

Bob Jewett said:
One possibility is that the player aligns the tip according to the outside edge of the tip/ferrule. In that case a smaller diameter tip (with the same crown curvature) is going to hit the cue ball farther from center. This will cause a smaller tip to feel like it is getting more spin.
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Oops, I didn't read this before my post.
garczar said:
Granted the difference is small but you can go further out with a 11mm than you can a 13 before a miscue. That's my experience anyway. Have always hated anything 12.7 just for feel reasons. I'm sure you and your buddy PJ will tell me i'm all wet, that's ok i'm used to his pedantic lectures.
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I've never met PJ. Don't know a thing about him other than what he writes here. The only thing we have in common is when I'm in Chicago I go to Chris's Billiards. If he was there on any of my rare visits? I don't know. I assume he's on a pool table. I'm on the carom tables. How would we possibly meet?

What I wrote only makes sense if you would take the time to think about it.

If the chalk patch is the same size and same tip hardness, you will find a 30mm tip will give the same spin as a 9mm tip,
Acquired spin is ONLY about where the tip contacts the CB.

My exaggerated 30mm tip was just to give a visual of how hard it would be to determine the contact point.

I will concede there are differences from cue to cue, and that I don't know why.

Why is that so hard to accept that the point of contact is the only factor when applying spin.
 
I can't find that video on youtube anymore of Bob showing you his cues and he shows you in various angles in slow motion.

Must have been taken down.
 
of course he had to take it down. if it proves you right the whole normal concept of pool gets disrupted.
it cannot be allowed to happen.

imagine how safe the world would be if oppenheimer was shut down.
 
maha said:
of course he had to take it down. if it proves you right the whole normal concept of pool gets disrupted.
it cannot be allowed to happen.

imagine how safe the world would be if oppenheimer was shut down.
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It was a damn good video and a treasure. I never said I agree with it but it was a good video.
 
your taking the shit dissed out well my friend. good on you.


post script: we are all friends on here.
 
Just a little food for thought when talking about wooden shafts. Energy travels far faster through end grain than side grain. No idea how carbon fiber is woven or how energy travels through it.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Just a little food for thought when talking about wooden shafts. Energy travels far faster through end grain than side grain. No idea how carbon fiber is woven or how energy travels through it.

Hu
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People just buy it and not care with carbon. The only thing they care is the tip mm size. With wood there are so many factors in choosing how you want it to fit your needs. Which translates over to how you play your game.

Most people don't know the difference between one carbon shaft to another.
 
Brother Ron said:

Understanding Cue Shaft Flexibility​

To understand why a whippy cue shaft can create more spin on the cue ball, we need to break down several key concepts related to cue mechanics, including flexibility, energy transfer, and tip contact.

1. Definition of Whippy Cues​

A whippy cue is characterized by its flexibility or lower stiffness compared to a stiff cue. This flexibility allows the shaft to bend during the stroke, which can influence how energy is transferred from the player’s stroke to the cue ball.

2. Energy Storage and Release​

When a player strikes the cue ball with a whippy shaft, the following occurs:

  • Compression: As the tip of the cue makes contact with the cue ball, both the tip and the shaft compress slightly due to the impact.
  • Energy Storage: The flexible nature of a whippy shaft allows it to store some of this energy as it bends.
  • Release of Energy: Once the initial compression occurs and the cue ball starts moving, the stored energy in the flexing shaft is released. This release can add additional speed and spin to the cue ball beyond what is provided solely by the player’s stroke.

3. Increased Tip Contact Time​

The flexibility of a whippy shaft can also lead to an increased contact time between the tip and the cue ball:

  • Longer Contact Duration: A flexible shaft may allow for a longer duration of contact between the tip and cue ball during impact. This extended contact time can enhance spin because it gives more opportunity for friction between the tip and ball.
  • Enhanced Spin Generation: With more time for frictional interaction, players can impart greater sidespin or topspin on their shots.

4. Reduced Squirt Effect​

Whippy cues often have lower end mass compared to stiffer cues:

  • Lower End Mass: A lighter end mass results in less squirt (the lateral deflection of the cue ball upon impact). This means that players can hit with more precision when applying spin without worrying as much about unintended deflection.
  • More Control Over Spin: With reduced squirt, players can better control where they want their shot to go while still applying significant amounts of spin.

Conclusion​

In summary, a whippy cue shaft creates more spin on the cue ball primarily due to its ability to store and release energy effectively during impact, allowing for longer contact time with enhanced frictional interaction. Additionally, its lower end mass reduces squirt, providing greater control over spin application.
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Nice job putting this all together. I agree with your claim about lower front end mass resulting in less cueball squirt, but I'm
sorry but I don't think your totally accurate here in other areas.
Sorry to be a sick in the mud. But I care about these topics too and accuracy and truth.
You claim:
Increased spin?
Longer tip time on the cueball?
More energy released?
Do you have any evidence for this?

I've seen high speed film from 20 or 25 years ago that convinced me these debates were settled. This was all published in billiards digest back then (during the birth of predator cues and the use of high speed film and a robot.)
Do you have anything demonstrable about these many claims or are you just sharing your feelings and coming up with your own ideas about these things m
High speed film shows things like the time duration of tip contact and amount of spin generated is not significantly different from one cue shaft or tip or ferrule combination over another. The only significant change is front end mass and that is around 25% less cue ball squirt when the shaft deflects more.
Could you please "source" your data or "show your work" to support your claims? I'd be interested to know how you came up with this.
 
If you apply english at close to center mass you can hit the ball much harder causing a truck load of spin. So is this more or less spin than a ball expertly struck on the outer reaches?
 
straightline said:
Don't you think tip impact speed affects the speed of spin?
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Yes, if you mean revolutions per minute (RPMs) - but not revolutions per distance traveled (spin-to-speed ratio), which is what matters in pool.

When a ball hits a cushion with side spin, it changes direction based on its speed into (and rebounding from) the cushion compared to the speed of its surface rubbing across the cushion (from side spin) - that's its spin-to-speed ratio. Hitting farther from center increases spin relative to speed - hitting harder increases both without changing their ratio (so no change in rebound direction).

pj
chgo
 
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