Unexpected Results of Service

[Shevek]

I just had a horrifying scenario pop into my head. I buy a very nice custom cue with a nice tight joint. I have the tip replaced and/or the shaft cleaned, etc. by some well respected cue service guy. He may be recommended by the locals, who think he's pretty good, but he's not a cue maker. Well maybe he does OK work as far as it goes, but let's say he's not used to working on custom cues made and bought by anal retentive, detail mongers like ourselves. This guy puts the cue in his lathe with the correct chuck/jig/attachment/thingy in the shaft's threaded hole, does the work, and returns it to me. Everything looks good, the shaft is very clean and smooth, the tip is uniform and burnished nicely. Then I go to put the shaft on the butt and find that it no longer has that nice tight - just right - feeling as I twist it on. The horror! The horror!

This is a realistic scenario right? The chuck/jig/attachment/thingy can be correct, yet be made with sloppy tolerances, right? Or maybe the lathe as it spins puts too much torque on the wooden threads in the hole? Does this happen? How can I prevent it?

 

[n10spool]

Hope your cue has a spare shaft.

 

[Shevek]

Hope your cue has a spare shaft.

I haven't bought my first custom cue yet. This didn't actually happen. The shaft in the scenario is still usable. We're not talking about extreme damage here. We're talking about going from "custom cue tight" to "production cue loose". In my scenario, I'm imagining taking the cue back to the guy to show him what he did and having him say something like, "What's the problem? Feels OK to me, heck that's tighter than most cues."

A thought I had about something that might cause a situation like this is the fact that there are different pins that go by the same numerical specs. 3/8-10 old school vs. 3/8-10 flat faced, for example.

Any thoughts about this kind of thing?

 

[KJ Cues]

Well, if the little 'thingy' were too tight for the hole, the repairman would know this immediately. If common sense runs in his/her family they'd stop and find the problem before proceeding. By the way, the 'thingy' is called an adapter pin or maintenance pin.

I hope you don't lose too much sleep imagining these worst case scenarios. This is one of the leading causes of paranoia.

You need to have a level of comfort and confidence with ANYONE that you have doing work on your cue. Do your homework and ask questions. It's your right to do so. If a repair-person is quoting you a price that is about 1/2 of what everyone else is quoting then maybe the quality of their work is about 1/2 of what it should be also. It's pretty much the same process you would use if you were deciding on which mechanic you'd want if you were replacing the brakes on your car. This is where you get to share in the 'common sense'.

FWIW and to aid in your level of comfort, there's not much damage that can be done that can't be corrected by a competent repair-person.

 

[billbOK]

...I hope you don't lose too much sleep imagining these worst case scenarios. This is one of the leading causes of paranoia...

LOL

 

[conetip]

lost sleep

I just had a horrifying scenario pop into my head.

Then I go to put the shaft on the butt and find that it no longer has that nice tight - just right - feeling as I twist it on. The horror! The horror!

This is a realistic scenario right? The chuck/jig/attachment/thingy can be correct, yet be made with sloppy tolerances, right? Or maybe the lathe as it spins puts too much torque on the wooden threads in the hole? Does this happen? How can I prevent it?

I find this difficult to imagine. What ever method of holding a shaft, I can't imagine any repair person forcing a pin into the shaft and changing the fit.
I am not saying that someone who does not what they are doing is going to do. But this from a craftsman is just hard to believe. Let it stay as a scenario.
Neil

 

[RocketQ]

All I can say is ignorance is bliss. I have watched a guy in a pool hall try to put an undercut 3/8-10 in a 3/8-11 hole the result is not pretty.

 

[pdcue]

I just had a horrifying scenario pop into my head. I buy a very nice custom cue with a nice tight joint. I have the tip replaced and/or the shaft cleaned, etc. by some well respected cue service guy. He may be recommended by the locals, who think he's pretty good, but he's not a cue maker. Well maybe he does OK work as far as it goes, but let's say he's not used to working on custom cues made and bought by anal retentive, detail mongers like ourselves. This guy puts the cue in his lathe with the correct chuck/jig/attachment/thingy in the shaft's threaded hole, does the work, and returns it to me. Everything looks good, the shaft is very clean and smooth, the tip is uniform and burnished nicely. Then I go to put the shaft on the butt and find that it no longer has that nice tight - just right - feeling as I twist it on. The horror! The horror!

This is a realistic scenario right? The chuck/jig/attachment/thingy can be correct, yet be made with sloppy tolerances, right? Or maybe the lathe as it spins puts too much torque on the wooden threads in the hole? Does this happen? How can I prevent it?

This is a realistic scenario right?

No



The chuck/jig/attachment/thingy can be correct, yet be made with sloppy tolerances, right?

No - it can't be correct and sloppy both at the same time.


Or maybe the lathe as it spins puts too much torque on the wooden threads in the hole? Does this happen?

No.


How can I prevent it?

Don't let anyone take your shaft back to the mother ship.
................................................................................................

It is perfectly reasonable to expect, even demand, competent
maintenance service. Dealing with imagined problems shouldn't be part
of maintenance.

I think you correctly self-diagnosed the real problem.
Anyone as anal as you should ship the shaft back to the cue maker
for maintenance - if you are too anal to trust shipping, and I know
someone who is just exactly that anal - ask the cue maker if his pin is standard enough to be driven by an adapter?

FWIW any competent repair person should have both the equipment
and the know how to spin the cue without using an adaptor.

Also, should you decide to use a 'local' repair guy, it would only be
socially responsible to warn him about your mental condition.

Dale

 

[JBCustomCues]

This is a realistic scenario right?

No



The chuck/jig/attachment/thingy can be correct, yet be made with sloppy tolerances, right?

No - it can't be correct and sloppy both at the same time.


Or maybe the lathe as it spins puts too much torque on the wooden threads in the hole? Does this happen?

No.


How can I prevent it?

Don't let anyone take your shaft back to the mother ship.

I think you correctly self-diagnosed the real problem.
Anyone as anal as you should ship the shaft back to the cue maker
for maintenance - if you are too anal to trust shipping, and I know
someone who is just exactly that anal - ask the cue maker if his pin is standard enough to be driven by an adapter?

FWIW any competent repair person should have both the equipment
and the know how to spin the cue without using an adaptor.

Also, should you decide to use a 'local' repair guy, it would only be
socially responsible to warn him about your mental condition.

Dale

now thats some funny stuff

 

[JoeyInCali]

This might be googanism at another level.

 

[Shevek]

This is Mostly BS

By the way, the 'thingy' is called an adapter pin or maintenance pin.

FWIW any competent repair person should have both the equipment
and the know how to spin the cue without using an adaptor.

These comments were helpful. Thank you for the info.

You need to have a level of comfort and confidence with ANYONE that you have doing work on your cue. Do your homework and ask questions. It's your right to do so. If a repair-person is quoting you a price that is about 1/2 of what everyone else is quoting then maybe the quality of their work is about 1/2 of what it should be also. It's pretty much the same process you would use if you were deciding on which mechanic you'd want if you were replacing the brakes on your car. This is where you get to share in the 'common sense'.

That's what I am doing here - my homework. What better place to ask questions? My intention is to be prepared and have the info I need when I visit a repair person. I have enough common sense, that I already know everything that you said that was non-specific. How about helping me out by giving some specific information? It's rather pointless to tell me in one breath "it's just like getting my brakes fixed", then in another breath, "compare prices", without telling me what prices you charge.

FWIW and to aid in your level of comfort, there's not much damage that can be done that can't be corrected by a competent repair-person.

I'm thinking I'd rather arm myself with the information I need to avoid the problem in the first place. This is like the auto mechanic who - no, worse than the auto mechanic who starts replacing parts randomly because he doesn't really know what the problem is. Later he can always try a different "fix" - I don't think so.

I hope you don't lose too much sleep imagining these worst case scenarios. This is one of the leading causes of paranoia.

Don't let anyone take your shaft back to the mother ship.

These kinds of comments are not helpful. At best they are something that can be misunderstood as an insult since it can be difficult to interpret tone when reading the written word. At worst they are intentionally rude and show a lack of manners and respect, and a lack of concern for people not "in the know" - people like me, who are simply trying to educate themselves. Just because I imagined a situation, then casually asked the question, "is this a realistic possibility" on a message board, does not make me a googan, nor does it imply permission to be rude.

It is perfectly reasonable to expect, even demand, competent
maintenance service. Dealing with imagined problems shouldn't be part
of maintenance.

You contradict yourself. You're saying I have the right to demand "competent maintenance service". But when I ask a question to educate myself about what should be expected AS "competent maintenance service", you make rude remarks and insult my intelligence, which basically implies that you think I have no right to be born without the knowledge that you worked years to acquire. That's not very reasonable.

All I can say is ignorance is bliss. I have watched a guy in a pool hall try to put an undercut 3/8-10 in a 3/8-11 hole the result is not pretty.

Thank you RocketQ. This is a person who understands the realities of life's situations.

I am aware that there are googans out there who will f**k up my equipment if I give them half a chance. Which means I need to be educated before I hand over a nice cue that I have paid good money for. Asking questions as part of the process of educating myself does not make ME the googan!

So, for those of you trying to be helpful, thank you. For those of you who choose to post snide comments, allow me to remind you that firstly, it's not helpful, and secondly, you create a bad image of yourself that will most likely affect your life and business in an adverse way.

As of yet, no one has addressed the specific issue of more than one type of pin with the same "designation". In my scenario, if the repair guy used an old school 3/8-10 maintenance pin on a shaft for a cue that has the newer 3/8-10 flat faced pin, could that cause the fit to loosen up?

 

[n10spool]

Use a plastic joint protector as your adapter, chuck it by the ferulle, or use a collet on the outside to grip the shaft and you dont ruin the threads. Heck a good cue maker or repair guy would have all the pins or would be able to make one out of Delrin or Teflon so they wouldn't hurt the shaft. If your cheap on what you want to pay you get rookie type work done, like the old saying---- you get what you pay for ---

If the repair guy cant build a shaft why would you want him to clean your shaft if he tweaks it how is he supposed to fix it let alone work on it the right way the first time. He bullet noses the ferulle and puts speed bumbs in the shaft from sanding it clean without a backing pad. It's your 20 yr old Gina cue with extra fancy decor rings. Shaft Is done ferulle has a 11.7 at the tip 12.8 @ the wood and the shaft has been sanded down to 12.156789mm just before the ferulle. Who pays for the replacement shaft??????? Remember you were only paying for a $10 shaft clean or a $50 shaft retaper.

Honestly when I first got into pool I had a guy clean my shaft on a Bludworth cue and he broke the decor rings off the shaft. He was almost done removed the tail stock and while buffing the shaft the phone rang he turned around about 45 deg turn with my shaft still in his hands attached to the lathe chuck. By the time he stopped it was to late. A week later I had a new shaft or he repaired it I didnt look close cause I didnt know that much then, But it never played the same again.

Go see an expert after all you invested 1-10 paychecks into getting the custom cue. If it was a cheap import cue shafts are cheap.

Craig

 

[rhncue]

These comments were helpful. Thank you for the info.



That's what I am doing here - my homework. What better place to ask questions? My intention is to be prepared and have the info I need when I visit a repair person. I have enough common sense, that I already know everything that you said that was non-specific. How about helping me out by giving some specific information? It's rather pointless to tell me in one breath "it's just like getting my brakes fixed", then in another breath, "compare prices", without telling me what prices you charge.



I'm thinking I'd rather arm myself with the information I need to avoid the problem in the first place. This is like the auto mechanic who - no, worse than the auto mechanic who starts replacing parts randomly because he doesn't really know what the problem is. Later he can always try a different "fix" - I don't think so.





These kinds of comments are not helpful. At best they are something that can be misunderstood as an insult since it can be difficult to interpret tone when reading the written word. At worst they are intentionally rude and show a lack of manners and respect, and a lack of concern for people not "in the know" - people like me, who are simply trying to educate themselves. Just because I imagined a situation, then casually asked the question, "is this a realistic possibility" on a message board, does not make me a googan, nor does it imply permission to be rude.



You contradict yourself. You're saying I have the right to demand "competent maintenance service". But when I ask a question to educate myself about what should be expected AS "competent maintenance service", you make rude remarks and insult my intelligence, which basically implies that you think I have no right to be born without the knowledge that you worked years to acquire. That's not very reasonable.



Thank you RocketQ. This is a person who understands the realities of life's situations.

I am aware that there are googans out there who will f**k up my equipment if I give them half a chance. Which means I need to be educated before I hand over a nice cue that I have paid good money for. Asking questions as part of the process of educating myself does not make ME the googan!

So, for those of you trying to be helpful, thank you. For those of you who choose to post snide comments, allow me to remind you that firstly, it's not helpful, and secondly, you create a bad image of yourself that will most likely affect your life and business in an adverse way.

As of yet, no one has addressed the specific issue of more than one type of pin with the same "designation". In my scenario, if the repair guy used an old school 3/8-10 maintenance pin on a shaft for a cue that has the newer 3/8-10 flat faced pin, could that cause the fit to loosen up?

In your scenario the only truly safe ways to be positively assured that the correct size drive pin being used is a perfect fit for your cue is 1. To send shaft back to maker for maintenance or 2. When ordering said cue, buy a drive pin from the maker of said cue and bring it along when maintenance is going to be done on said cue.

As has been stated previously, The shaft can be worked on without the use of a drive pin but I have found that these other ways can create other problems of their own

Dick

 

[poolplayer2093]

you could have someone(whoever made the cue) put a dowel in it and rethread the joint

 

[Shevek]

If the repair guy cant build a shaft why would you want him to clean your shaft if he tweaks it how is he supposed to fix it let alone work on it the right way the first time...

Go see an expert after all you invested 1-10 paychecks into getting the custom cue...

Thanks for the input. I would love to live close enough to the cue maker I choose to make a cue, so that I could have him do my routine maintenance as well. Lacking that, I could go to a different cue maker for routine maintenance. But you gotta find one that's close that you can trust. That's the trick.

The local guys charge typically $10 for tips such triangle, $10 for shaft cleanings. That's what I am accustomed to. If you are saying that a cue maker will charge more for these routine maintenance items, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Shevek]

Thanks Dick, what would a drive pin cost?

Don

 

[rhncue]

Thanks Dick, what would a drive pin cost?

Don

For just occasional use standard pin that that cue maker uses is all that is needed. Depending on pin, anywhere from 2.00 to 20.00.

The joint protector idea works very well as most joint protectors male thread is undercut slightly so that it is a loose fit. I've used this method before with some shafts.

Dick

 

[DaveK]

....should you decide to use a 'local' repair guy, it would only be socially responsible to warn him about your mental condition.

I warn myself before putting on a new tip, but rarely do I take my own advice and occasionally super-glue a finger to my ferrule ... I hate when that happens It makes my ferrules RED, white, and blue (red and white if I clean it first, gosh I like Magic Erasor sponges).

I hope our esteemed cuemakers don't get annoyed at me for saying so, but putting on a tip and cleaning your shaft are jobs you can do yourself. I'm even planning on replacing the tip on a 4 brazillion dollar custom cue that I'm going to win next week Elk Masters rule !

Dave

 

[Cuedog]

I warn myself before putting on a new tip, but rarely do I take my own advice and occasionally super-glue a finger to my ferrule ... I hate when that happens It makes my ferrules RED, white, and blue (red and white if I clean it first, gosh I like Magic Erasor sponges).

I hope our esteemed cuemakers don't get annoyed at me for saying so, but putting on a tip and cleaning your shaft are jobs you can do yourself. I'm even planning on replacing the tip on a 4 brazillion dollar custom cue that I'm going to win next week Elk Masters rule !

Dave

I guess that depends on the quality of job you are used to as well as one's competency level.

As far as the questions of the original poster, Dick and a couple of others have given you the best advice. Being anal is not something you can help nor do you have a desire to most likely. With that in mind, you have to take more aggressive steps to achieve a probable positive outcome.

- Send it back to the original cuemaker.
- Have the original cuemaker sell you a maintenance set. (Good luck)
- Ship your work to the top level makers/repairmen.
- Etc.

Gene

 

[n10spool]

How I look at it most top cue makers were, are, or soon become very accomplished machinist's of there trade or expert engineer's through knowledge, schooling, and trial and error from 10+ years of making prototypes [firewood cues].

Were is there a 1,000 page manual or text book that covers all aspects of cue making from the mace to the titanium cue. There are some books from several cuemakers that decided to share thier working knowledge of cue making throught trial and error. Jigs that worked or didnt work which lathes worked best to which brand tools were the nuts for the job.

I'm not an expert but I have $15,000 worth of tooling for working on cues.

Another way to find someone to work on your cue is ask several of the local pro's in your area who they trust with thier cue. Fed ex is always available but in today $ market everything is to expensive to waste good money.

There are some lathes that work very well for under $1500 just for cues.
Dacue is selling one here on AZ.