Unintentional English

StraightPoolIU

StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
This is my first foray into the ask the instructors forum, but I have something that's been bothering me that I'm not sure why I'm doing it or how to correct it. As I've been practicing and doing drills I've really been paying attention to the cueball, my stroke, and the spin I'm putting on it. The thing I've noticed over and over again is that on a lot of shots, particularly shots hit firm with draw, that I'm putting right hand english on them without meaning to. Obviously this is problematic because the unintentional deflection makes the balls harder to make and I'm not getting as much draw action on the cueball as I'd like. I have no idea why I'm doing this so I wouldn't mind hearing some imput. Do you think this might be an alignment problem? I know in golf if you're not set up right you can't make a good swing. Are there drills I can do to help iron this out? Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Brent
 
Several.

One is the classic drill with the CB on the spot playing it up to the short rail and back down to your tip. If it hits your tip, you stroked it pure. Except with this drill add doing it with low english and a firm stroke. You will find it harder to have the cueball come back and hit your tip. The more you do it the better you will get at it.

The other is a progressive draw drill starting with draw shots one rail apart. Focus on drawing the cb back on a straight line back. Add distance as you accomplish this. Look up the work of Bob Jewett he has many progressive practice drills documented on his site.
 
StraightPoolIU said:
This is my first foray into the ask the instructors forum, but I have something that's been bothering me that I'm not sure why I'm doing it or how to correct it. As I've been practicing and doing drills I've really been paying attention to the cueball, my stroke, and the spin I'm putting on it. The thing I've noticed over and over again is that on a lot of shots, particularly shots hit firm with draw, that I'm putting right hand english on them without meaning to. Obviously this is problematic because the unintentional deflection makes the balls harder to make and I'm not getting as much draw action on the cueball as I'd like. I have no idea why I'm doing this so I wouldn't mind hearing some imput. Do you think this might be an alignment problem? I know in golf if you're not set up right you can't make a good swing. Are there drills I can do to help iron this out? Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Brent
Click to expand...

Brent, check the position of your knuckles in your grip before and after you shoot the shot. If they wind up over or under your cue after you've finished, then you twisted your hand as you attempted to get power in your draw shot. This can put unwanted side spin on the cue ball.

If this is the case, practice stroking where your knuckles are in the same position before and after the stroke.
 
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Another thing to check is your grip. A lot of people tend to tighten up when they need to add a little more power. Doing that can easily throw your otherwise perfectly straight stroke off just enough to add unintentional english. If you have a way to video yourself, shoot straight at the camera with a slower stroke, then with more speed.

What many fail to realize, is that to add more speed, you don't need more muscle per say. You want speed, not power. When you tell yourself more power, you automatically start using more muscle to get that power. You tighten up your muscles, you won't send the cue down the same line as you will relaxed. Try staying relaxed, and just move your cue faster.
 
I would also look at grip pressure and if your clinching early in the stroke on the power shots, this will pull the cue off line.
 
I had a similar problem and still have it to an extent. Ask a friend to watch you line up on a shot without side spin. Have him watch your initial tip placement and your backstroke and forward stroke.

If you hit the ball off-center, you must be doing at least one of two things: you are not lining up at the center of the ball or you are not stroking straight. We don't know which is the problem. Maybe it's both.

I think that without more info, any advice at this point is useless. Or maybe harmful if it causes you to layer one bad habit on another.
 
Pretty sure Tony means starting with draw shots 1 DIAMOND apart, between CB & OB...rather than one rail apart. First thing I thought of was mentioned already...clenching the cue at or before contact with the CB. When the CB is struck with some speed, missing where you're trying to hit by even 1mm will cause some squirt (more with more distance between the two balls). Fran's suggestion was a good one. You might want to have a professional video analysis done. I'm through Indy quite often, if you're interested.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Tony_in_MD said:
The other is a progressive draw drill starting with draw shots one rail apart. .
Click to expand...
 
Thank you all for the information. Obviously I'm going to have to do some further examination and have some people watch me hit some, but I do suspect I might be clenching the cue on these shots. I would definitely be interested in some professional lessons if someone a) was available in the area b) wouldn't mind working with me at the hole in the wall poolroom I go to since I don't have a home table and c) if I was able to afford it. In any case thank you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated. I think this part of the forum is highly underutilized.
 
Yes diamond, I was so excited about posting again that my fingers were working faster than by brain.

Scott Lee said:
Pretty sure Tony means starting with draw shots 1 DIAMOND apart, between CB & OB...rather than one rail apart. First thing I thought of was mentioned already...clenching the cue at or before contact with the CB. When the CB is struck with some speed, missing where you're trying to hit by even 1mm will cause some squirt (more with more distance between the two balls). Fran's suggestion was a good one. You might want to have a professional video analysis done. I'm through Indy quite often, if you're interested.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
 
I also have a problem hitting ball at the center. I remember I tended to miss shots to the right when I held the cuestick unter my right eye, moved it to under-chin position and had had a good run ever since. Now for a few days i have had a severe problem missing to the right significantly again despite there being a cuestick under my chin. As if I had forgotten how to stand properly or some bad habit had come back. In addition, there has been no sloppiness etc... lately. Seemed like moving my right foot slightly to the right of the line of the shot helped a lit bit but i don't want to think it's a solution. Unlike you, I get the worst results when having to hit the CB at the upper areas. I'm confused :eek:

Seems like we should upload videos from different point of views :thumbup:
 
Yeah I'd like to upload a video of me hitting some shots, but all I have to take video with is my Droid X so it probably wouldn't be great quality.
 
I'll be in Indy June 6th & 7th. If you're interested, PM me some contact info for you, or give me a call. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

StraightPoolIU said:
Thank you all for the information. Obviously I'm going to have to do some further examination and have some people watch me hit some, but I do suspect I might be clenching the cue on these shots. I would definitely be interested in some professional lessons if someone a) was available in the area b) wouldn't mind working with me at the hole in the wall poolroom I go to since I don't have a home table and c) if I was able to afford it. In any case thank you all for your feedback. It is much appreciated. I think this part of the forum is highly underutilized.
Click to expand...
 
I suggest always favoring the inside of the cue ball as a reference point

StraightPoolIU said:
This is my first foray into the ask the instructors forum, but I have something that's been bothering me that I'm not sure why I'm doing it or how to correct it. As I've been practicing and doing drills I've really been paying attention to the cueball, my stroke, and the spin I'm putting on it. The thing I've noticed over and over again is that on a lot of shots, particularly shots hit firm with draw, that I'm putting right hand english on them without meaning to. Obviously this is problematic because the unintentional deflection makes the balls harder to make and I'm not getting as much draw action on the cueball as I'd like. I have no idea why I'm doing this so I wouldn't mind hearing some imput. Do you think this might be an alignment problem? I know in golf if you're not set up right you can't make a good swing. Are there drills I can do to help iron this out? Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Brent
Click to expand...

Putting "unintended english" on the cue ball is a very common problem, so don't sweat it too much. Even the champion players have issues with this, the difference is they intentionally favor one side of the cue ball so they have a "margin of error".

I suggest always favoring the inside of the cue ball as a reference point and if you need to put "english," then use that spot as a reference point as opposed to "center ball". Experiment with this and you'll see that it gives you a better "Touch". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
pleforowicz said:
I also have a problem hitting ball at the center. I remember I tended to miss shots to the right when I held the cuestick unter my right eye, moved it to under-chin position and had had a good run ever since. Now for a few days i have had a severe problem missing to the right significantly again despite there being a cuestick under my chin. As if I had forgotten how to stand properly or some bad habit had come back. In addition, there has been no sloppiness etc... lately. Seemed like moving my right foot slightly to the right of the line of the shot helped a lit bit but i don't want to think it's a solution. Unlike you, I get the worst results when having to hit the CB at the upper areas. I'm confused :eek:

Seems like we should upload videos from different point of views :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Do you think the cueball is veering to the left or is it your visual alignment? I have the same issue, missing to the right.
 
I thought it was an alignment issue. However, I recorded myself today and i can't believe in what I see... I'm even ashamed to upload the video, it's that bad. started dropping elbow ( :yikes:), whole arm movement, elbow protruding to the right , seem to be unbalanced ( felt so actually). and my coach hasn't said anything for a month about my elbow dropping - when i occasionally asked him 'elbow fine?' he says 'yes'.: angry:
 
Try this fundamentals adjustment:

On your stance, your back foot, front foot, and bridge comprise a triangle (looking down from above). The base of the triangle is the cue stick.

To increase the apex of the triangle about 1 - 2 inches, shift your front foot sideways away from the stick.

This shifts the head position which slightly changes the angle you see the shooting line.
 
.it's far easier to do them ABOVE the shot, where you can see they are correct.

pleforowicz said:
I thought it was an alignment issue. However, I recorded myself today and i can't believe in what I see... I'm even ashamed to upload the video, it's that bad. started dropping elbow ( :yikes:), whole arm movement, elbow protruding to the right , seem to be unbalanced ( felt so actually). and my coach hasn't said anything for a month about my elbow dropping - when i occasionally asked him 'elbow fine?' he says 'yes'.: angry:
Click to expand...

I've never once thought about my elbow, the feedback that's essential is cue related, not body related. This is done by pre setting your cue to the table EXACTLY straight/level in you pre shot routine.

Waiting until you're down on the shot to establish your key fundamental connections to the cue is extremely difficult to do (it causes "ugly things to happen to compensate)...creating consistant body {shot} angles is far easier to do ABOVE the shot, where you can see they are correct. "Begin with the end in Mind"

'The Game is the Teacher'.com
 
I hit with unintended left english. When I shoot long stop shots with a measle ball I usually see a 180 degree spin left on the CB after contact. I asked an instructor about this and he said he has the same problem and recommended actually aiming to the right to compensate. If I aim with a half tip of right english I can hit the stop shot with no remaining english. I can't do it every time but I do it a lot more then when I was trying to aim center ball.

I know this technique sounds like adding error on top of error, but so far I have not found another way. I've analyzed my stoke and it seems I can practice stoke center ball, but on the final (faster) stroke to hit the ball, my back hand makes a little jog that ends up as left english.
 
If you're nose is running there's a very good chance it's not your nose.

jeffj2h said:
I hit with unintended left english. When I shoot long stop shots with a measle ball I usually see a 180 degree spin left on the CB after contact. I asked an instructor about this and he said he has the same problem and recommended actually aiming to the right to compensate. If I aim with a half tip of right english I can hit the stop shot with no remaining english. I can't do it every time but I do it a lot more then when I was trying to aim center ball.

I know this technique sounds like adding error on top of error, but so far I have not found another way. I've analyzed my stoke and it seems I can practice stoke center ball, but on the final (faster) stroke to hit the ball, my back hand makes a little jog that ends up as left english.
Click to expand...

The key to "fixing" something like this is to detect the root of the problem and not just "put a band-aid on it". I'd be glad to help you, however I'd have to see your feet/hip alignment/ and especially your wrist/hand/finger angles to determine what the root cause actually is.

The ironic part of these situations is it may be coming from something that would be your last guess, because results are connected. I could tell many stories of this being true, natural health works in much the same way. If you're nose is running there's a very good chance it's not your nose. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'.com
 
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