Unknown "monster" players

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
How good was Smokey Bartlett?

At one time, "Jessie", that's what we called him when he lived in Jackson, MS 30 something years ago and he could give the 7 ball to everyone there except maybe Reed Pierce but that was when Reed was first coming on the scene. Dressed back then and looked like a hippy; sandals, LONG, LONG, hair, still cut up on his stomach and chest from gang fights as I recall. Smaller size guy and I don't remember him ever losing at anything.
 

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At one time, "Jessie", that's what we called him when he lived in Jackson, MS 30 something years ago and he could give the 7 ball to everyone there except maybe Reed Pierce but that was when Reed was first coming on the scene. Dressed back then and looked like a hippy; sandals, LONG, LONG, hair, still cut up on his stomach and chest from gang fights as I recall. Smaller size guy and I don't remember him ever losing at anything.

Smokey used to come through Beaumont quite regularly. He had a daughter that lived here and he came to visit her. Last time I saw him was probably 10 plus years ago. I remember, if I'm not mistaken, that he worked at a poolroom named Stroker's on North Lamar in Austin. He used to play my friend Pat Fox some. They were a pretty close game. I don't know where he lives today, last I heard was Florida.
 

bflojosh

The sneakiest sneaky
Silver Member
That guy still plays well! I'm not sure how old he is or how his health is holding up but he always seems to be in the finals of any tournament I see him in. He gave Dennis Hatch a run for his money last year at Bison Billiards at a Joss Tour stop
 

nashville14:1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bingo and and Herbert Young in Nashville

Herbert Young and Bingo in Nashville in the 1960s.

It was at Uptown Billiards in about 1963 (or was it called Downtown billiards? later became Arcade billiards) It was on the ground floor on Deadrick Street and was the venue where the serious local money players took on the serious road men here in Nashville. Since I was only about 14yo I snagged an ID from my older brother and passed for 16 to get in. About 15 4.5x9 Brunswick talbes, Several oldies such as the beautiful 1920s Arcade and medalist models etc and a bunch of Anniversarys. A couple of the 1920 vintage 9 footers tables were reserved for serious players of one pocket, bank and serious $$ 9-ball. These reserved tables were always in top condition. Room was operated by Herbert Young who could play good bank.
Top everyday money player there was Charles Harrison aka “Bingo”. Bingo was a guy who took great care of his family and provided a nice home in an upscale neighborhood.
Bingo would play anybody. In that room he played many road players, among many others Marshall Carpenter, Larry Hubbart etc. Years after Bingo retired from the game he told me about this one match. One day Hubbart brought along a yongster “just to watch”. Larry won his session against Bingo, then Larry suggested that the youngster would play but would need a spot of the 8 in a game of 9 ball. The youngster won his session as well. His name was Mike Siegel. I do not know what year that was. Bingo was a good bank, snooker and 1 pocket player and beat some top players at 9 ball too. Bingo had a memorable stroke, very long slip not unlike the cowboy.

When Mosconi came to that room for an exhibition, in about 1963. Herbert played the matinee and Bingo played the evening show. While they were good allround players and did make a few 14.1 racks, Mosconi ran 100+ and out before his trick shot shows.

As of 2011 both Herbert and Bingo must have passed on a few years back, maybe in the late 1990s or early 2000s
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Herbert Young and Bingo in Nashville in the 1960s.

It was at Uptown Billiards in about 1963 (or was it called Downtown billiards? later became Arcade billiards) It was on the ground floor on Deadrick Street and was the venue where the serious local money players took on the serious road men here in Nashville. Since I was only about 14yo I snagged an ID from my older brother and passed for 16 to get in. About 15 4.5x9 Brunswick talbes, Several oldies such as the beautiful 1920s Arcade and medalist models etc and a bunch of Anniversarys. A couple of the 1920 vintage 9 footers tables were reserved for serious players of one pocket, bank and serious $$ 9-ball. These reserved tables were always in top condition. Room was operated by Herbert Young who could play good bank.
Top everyday money player there was Charles Harrison aka “Bingo”. Bingo was a guy who took great care of his family and provided a nice home in an upscale neighborhood.
Bingo would play anybody. In that room he played many road players, among many others Marshall Carpenter, Larry Hubbart etc. Years after Bingo retired from the game he told me about this one match. One day Hubbart brought along a yongster “just to watch”. Larry won his session against Bingo, then Larry suggested that the youngster would play but would need a spot of the 8 in a game of 9 ball. The youngster won his session as well. His name was Mike Siegel. I do not know what year that was. Bingo was a good bank, snooker and 1 pocket player and beat some top players at 9 ball too. Bingo had a memorable stroke, very long slip not unlike the cowboy.

When Mosconi came to that room for an exhibition, in about 1963. Herbert played the matinee and Bingo played the evening show. While they were good allround players and did make a few 14.1 racks, Mosconi ran 100+ and out before his trick shot shows.

As of 2011 both Herbert and Bingo must have passed on a few years back, maybe in the late 1990s or early 2000s

Nash, great story, thx for the ''early'' Sigel info, yep he and Hubbard/Iceman, did allot of road damage in their day when money was plentiful.
 

dsnake123

Registered
old champions

This guy from Davenport, Iowa named Drake Daley. He always had a hustle and never lost when a road player came in town.
 

game7808

Registered
Nick “the Indian” Vlahos

I went to a nine ball tournament at Elite Billiards way back in the 70’s it was an insanely strong field many of the names mentioned in this thread were there. I remember seeing Larry “Oil Can” Lisciotti who looked like a burnt out rock star, he was friendly and fun and played very strong.

Boston Shorty was there and he made an insane reverse english bank shot to win one match that brought the house down. After the match everyone wanted to see the shot again and Shorty lined it up and tried 3 times to do it again never getting close. Finally he took the cigar out of his mouth looked at the crowd and said. “Well if I knew it was impossible I never would have tried it.”

Roger Boucher the 3 time New England straight pool champion was there even though nine ball was not his game he finished in the money. There were lots of other well known players there including the state champions from most of the new England states.

The favorite was a young Mike Zuglan who had come down from Albany with some backers who were willing to bet anything you wanted on his matches. I don’t think they got too many takers. Zuglan at that age was pretty much unbeatable, and although relatively unknown outside of New York was one of the top cash players around. Zuglan simply dominated I watched two or three matches where he never missed a shot. He played a safe here and there but never missed a shot.

In the finals he played Nick “the Indian” Vlahos who I had never heard of but Zuglan’s backers didn’t seem to happy to see him, and one of the New York players told me that Vlahos had come to Albany a few weeks before and beaten everyone in the house including Mike Zuglan out of some serious cash.

It was the greatest match I have ever seen. They were both in dead stroke and even the seasoned pro’s in the room watched that match in silence. Even than everybody there seemed to realize we were seeing something that we would never seen again. Vlahos had lost an early match and came out of the loser column. But he attached Zuglan and won the first set with a impossible run out on when they were both tied on the hill.

The next match they took turns running two or three racks at a time and ended up tied again on the hill. Zuglan used his 3 cushion billiards skill to make a killer safe burying Vlahos who missed a tough shot and that was the end of it. Zuglan ran out and won the tournament.

That was like 40 years ago and I have watched and played a lot of pool in the years that have passed. But I have never seen a match like that one. I was sad to hear that Nick “the Indian” Vlahos had passed. He was a hard core money player and hustler and you never really got to see his best game unless the cash was on the table, and most people never saw it twice since after the first session they avoided him like the plague. Nice to see I am not the only one who remembers him.
 

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
DC metro area in the '90s

[/B]
I cannot place who "Nick" is. :eek:

As far as unknown monsters, the Metro D.C. area, which includes Maryland, Virginia, and D.C., does have its fair sure of unknown players.

Baltimore used to be where all the action was. After the bars would shut down, 'round midnight back then, everybody drove to Glen Burnie to Bill and Billie's (now called Jack and Jill's). This was an pool room that was on every road player's map because the action was prevalent, every single day and night. I remember when an unknown Efren Reyes came to Glen Burnie and drew a crowd 'round his table. Folks were talking about Efren months after he left town, how he took all the cheese, they way he played, et cetera. :D

I can't remember the names of all those Baltimore players, but most of 'em used to play out of Greenie's. There was Jarvis and Tony, as I recall. Of course, nobody can discount Cigar Tom Vanover from Dundalk, who still plays today by appointment. ;)

Up Frederick way, you have Bo Newport, White Max, and the guy from Hagerstown who would play ANYONE on his home table, Punky. Whatever road agent came to town could get action from any of these players.

Rockville, Maryland, which is closer to my neck of the woods, there are lots of unknown monster players who had a whole lot of gamble: Korean Lee, Geese, Tom-Tom, Danny Wolford, Fat Mike, Elevator Larry, Quick Vic, Bobby Hawk, West Virginia Frank, Bus Driver Ronnie, Cab Driver Pete, Mamoo, Danny Green, and Jimmy Scrimma (sp). I think I'd throw in Timmy Crown for the heart and gamble he had. He might not have played as good as the above-referenced, but he definitely knew how to match up and would bet it up as high as the Georgia pine.

In D.C., the most notorious player would have to be Strawberry. There ain't nobody who can take his crown as being the best in D.C., as far as I'm concerned.

Who can forget Virginia's finest, the Boggs brothers (Scotty and Freddy), Jimmy Mac, Billy Stephens, Seattle Sam, Roanoke Red, and I'm sure Black-Balled can chime in here and provide a few more players' names from Virginia.

These guys would step up and play anybody, especially on their home table. There used to be quite a bit of action in the Metropolitan D.C. area, like most other places, I guess. Today, nobody wants to bet a quarter without doing a thorough review and research via the Internet and/or cell phone, and then they don't want to gamble. Rather, they want to steal by offering a game that their opponent has no chance to win at.

That's the state of pool in my area. :(

JAM
I lived in that area from '87 to '95. I came out of an early retirement in 1990 and played many of the guys you mention: Tony, Lee, Bo, Max, Tom-Tom, Danny W, Danny G and the Boggs brothers. Also Pat O'Neill and an old fella named "Peaches". Played on BCA teams with Jimmy Scrima and Bill Morton ("Jackie Robinson").
Years before in Wisconsin, in the '50s-'60s, Jack Hoffman stands out. Ran 5 in a 3-C event against him in 1963 and lost the match 25-10!
In the '70s and '80s, Willie Munson, Stan Manns, Duncan Kaufman, Randy Lamarr, Scott Kiddo, Toby Dick, Greg Fix, Ron Schneider, Mark Wilson, Jeff Carter, Len Jaszewski, Mike Haggerty, Timmy Stellpflug, Louie Lemke, Whitey Lee and Billy Steele. Had the good fortune to play on teams with the last six mentioned. I actually beat a few of the above on occasion. I played the infamous "Tom the Sailor" Cremer as well and did not win!
Retired now in Florida, the best "unknown" player I've seen is Chris Wall.
Best players I've ever played? Mosconi and Varner.
 

4thegoodtimes

Registered
Art Clements. Nick name....Tippy Toes

Jam up pool player but a bubble off plum. He was from Iowa but now lives in Vegas I think. Has anybody ever heard of him?
 

jigmoore

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dennis the Menace.....

All kinds of natural talent. It's a shame he don't play.

Where are you at Ok-Tx?

last I heard Donnie Brown was in Cinci? not sure, but thought it was at a pool hall somewhere over down the I75 corridor. Airport billiards maybe? Was a few years back, I was talking with the pool hall owner.

I played with him quite a bit back in OKC. Best natural stroke and natural shot maker I ever saw. Always beat me. Great player, but I wouldn't list him as best monster ever. He kept sticking his nose where it didn't belong and that interfered with his pool playing.
 

Banker1978

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Art Clements. Nick name....Tippy Toes

Jam up pool player but a bubble off plum. He was from Iowa but now lives in Vegas I think. Has anybody ever heard of him?

I think in may be Art Clemmens, if we are thinking of the same person. Usually has a beard, paranoid, best game is one hole? I think he is currently in the St. Louis area.
 

jigmoore

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've heard that same story but it wasn't a car. But it was cues, jewelry and the lot.

whatever it was...it was everything he had. i thought a car was involved...but truthfully...i don't remember any keys getting handed over. the awe of outrunning that crazy spot far outweighed how much in valuables was wagered.
 

jigmoore

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have heard Tonys name several times in this thread and finally someone said Little Tony Watson. I think he came through OKC. Many years ago when he looked to barely be of age? Very small, shoulders about 14 in. Wide. Looked like he was 14 years old. Seemed to have a foxy lady about 30 years old with him. Unbelievable player! Could this have been the young man I saw?

I remember that. Fearless!

Walked into every pool hall saying. I'll play anyone $1000...one game of 9ball....or something crazy like that.

I can't remember seeing him play...but everyone knew when he came through. I assumed he had a big stakehorse behind him fueling that young confidence. He was from Kentucky or something.
 

jigmoore

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Saw Donnie Brown a few days ago at a little pool hall around here. Drunk as a skunk and offering almost anyone in the bar the 6 out wild and the breaks for 50 a game. Finally got a pretty good player to bite and wound up beating him for 5 or 6 games. Guy never plays pool anymore and can still offer up that kind of weight, pretty impressive. And always entertaining.

hmmm. back when i remember him, we was quiet...calculating...crazy careful bridge hand. amazing how things change.

was this back in the ohio area?
 

OklaPony

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember that. Fearless!

Walked into every pool hall saying. I'll play anyone $1000...one game of 9ball....or something crazy like that.

I can't remember seeing him play...but everyone knew when he came through. I assumed he had a big stakehorse behind him fueling that young confidence. He was from Kentucky or something.
I think he first rolled into town for one of the Southwest Tour 9-ball events we had down in Norman... maybe '90 or '91? I believe NC was where he reportedly called home.
 

jigmoore

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...

Boston Shorty was there and he made an insane reverse english bank shot to win one match that brought the house down. After the match everyone wanted to see the shot again and Shorty lined it up and tried 3 times to do it again never getting close. Finally he took the cigar out of his mouth looked at the crowd and said. “Well if I knew it was impossible I never would have tried it.”

......

LOL! that's one of the funniest lines i've ever heard!
 

Geometric

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I read this and nobody mentioned a little guy that they called "STORMIN NORMAN" (Norm Wines). He is from Michigan and he came through Cincinnati and beat everybody......I watched him give a guy the 8 and Norm had to shoot behind his back.....Norm played better shooting behind his back than most of the players in Cincinnati.....He was a pretty cool guy to BS with.
 
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