Unreasonably Upset

[Patrick Johnson]

Well put, if a little blunt.

When you missed that ball, you have to accept that you're going to lose that game. He's going to run his balls and make the 8, and however many safeties he has to play to get that done without leaving you an opening, that's how many he'll play.

Furthermore, by playing extra safeties, he was doing you a favor. It didn't turn out your way, but if he had just run out, you never would have had a chance. The way he did it, you had multiple chances to get lucky, and the more chances he gave you, the more likely it would get that something's going to go your way and get you back in the game.

If I had to choose between an opponent who just runs out when he should, or an opponent who plays safe when he should run out, I'll take the one who plays safe. I can't win while he's running out, whereas when he plays safe and brings me to the table, you never know what might happen.

-Andrew

Insightful and instructive post, Andrew.

pj
chgo

 

[trustyrusty]

IMO he did BEAT you. You made a mistake by not finishing, true. He may not have run off the remaining balls in one turn at the table, but he DID finish. Now, that said, his mistake was letting you back to the table so many times....that coulda ended up biting him in the butt (though it did not this time). If you could have kicked (even luckily) and gotten a roll, he might not have been able to hide you again, and you win. Moral?? Work on kicking (and jumping if allowed) so you won't give him (any opponent) the upperhand with ball in hand so much.

The name of the game is WINNING, and however you have to do it is NOT dirty. He knows his limitations on getting out, and he showed you your limitations in kicking. Wait until you lose in a 3 foul situation, lol VERY frustrating!

 

[mdavis228]

Two things you have to consider inexcusable sins...
#1 - Running only 6 or 7 in 8 ball,
#2 - Not winning a game where your opponent commits sin #1.

If you make that mistake against me, I don't owe you anything but a loss - and in my own time, my own way. The more that frustrates you, the better chance you'll drag up again. Let go of the frustration, and you can start using the good advice of the other guys. When you get to swing at 'em again, try to do something to improve your situation - even if that means making problems for you opponent. That'll fold some guys right up into brain lock.

 

[trustyrusty]

Well put, if a little blunt.

When you missed that ball, you have to accept that you're going to lose that game. He's going to run his balls and make the 8, and however many safeties he has to play to get that done without leaving you an opening, that's how many he'll play.

Furthermore, by playing extra safeties, he was doing you a favor. It didn't turn out your way, but if he had just run out, you never would have had a chance. The way he did it, you had multiple chances to get lucky, and the more chances he gave you, the more likely it would get that something's going to go your way and get you back in the game.

If I had to choose between an opponent who just runs out when he should, or an opponent who plays safe when he should run out, I'll take the one who plays safe. I can't win while he's running out, whereas when he plays safe and brings me to the table, you never know what might happen.

-Andrew

oops, musta skipped reading your post Andrew....exactly right on, on choosing someone willing to give me more opportunities at the table than not!!!

 

[LWW]

Some people have issues with safes thinking it's semi-dirty pool. It's assinine, defeatest thinking IMO.

That's usually new players who think that way.

I had problems with it when I first started playing. Now even, a safety goes against my personal grain and is the weakest part of my game by far.

It's not that I get mad at someone for doing it, but I don't do it myself near enough. My thinking by nature is to go for making a ball no matter what.

Huge mental block on my part.

LWW

 

[Meezer Girl]

Yep you missed. He beat you. You didn't lose. Every win or loss depends on someone making a mistake and someone else taking advantage of it. Trying to say that you lost instead of him winning is a mentality that will keep you a loser.

Yes, I would be angry. That I lost. That I missed the ball. But I would have shaken his hand. Can't blame him for beating you when you missed a shot you're supposed to make.

In that situation though, when you put your game ball in a puddle of poo, and he's playing safe. You still have a good chance to win but you have to get outside of bar/league thinking.

If he's playing safe it's because he's either 1) screwing with you or 2) isn't confident in running out.

When he safes you, instead of trying to get a legal hit, make an intentional bad hit and put his ball in the poo puddle with yours. Make his ducks and balls that he might use for break balls and put him in a very difficult situation where any error will cost him the game. It also makes the mental game much tougher for him because he will be forced to start thinking about playing you safe from every ball instead of just keeping you from hitting yours. The extra brainpower this will require will make him nervous (unless he's a good player, in which case you're sunk anyway)

Every time he plays safe, lock up or make another of his balls.

If he is having trouble with an open table, imagine the fits a few good clusters will have him in.

He's likely to panic and try a hero breakout.

He will likely be pissed by this turn of events and be likely to make a mistake. When he does shove it in and break it off.

You're likely to piss him off as much or more as you were and be able to get the upper hand.

In that situation that is your only chance to win the game IMO. If you let him dictate the game by trying to make legal hits and giving up BIH you just play his game and you will lose.

Another benefit is that it gives you something else to think about/focus on and takes away your anger and allows you to focus on the game again.

That will take away his power to make you angry, which could be something he feeds off of.

Be prepared to hear comments about cheap pool or worse. But when you miss that ball, you put yourself in this situation.

~rc

tap, tap

Don't lose sight of the fact that winning the game/match is more important than this 1 ball. Do what you have to do to take away his easy layout & make him have to think harder - if you are the better player/thinker it will be to your advantage & not his.

 

[jrt30004]

if i am not 100% sure i can run out (and sometimes even then) i do the same thing. some one told me once it's not about winning pretty, it's about winning. any way you can (short of cheating of course). i play with much better players than me in a local bca division and a lot of them can't accept i get some of the wins i get and why i play safe, alot. it's simple, i know they are better, i know if i go for a run out and miss they will kick my ass. so even if it makes a game take 5 miuntes that should have taken 2, i want my win.

 

[Andrew Manning]

That's usually new players who think that way.

I had problems with it when I first started playing. Now even, a safety goes against my personal grain and is the weakest part of my game by far.

It's not that I get mad at someone for doing it, but I don't do it myself near enough. My thinking by nature is to go for making a ball no matter what.

Huge mental block on my part.

LWW

Except for the "no matter what" part, it's actually not a bad way to be if you're a developing player. There are players who think run-out first, and then only think safe once they arrive at a situation where they know they have no realistic chance at completing the run. The longer these players continue playing 8-ball with this mentality, the less often they arrive at the situation where they can't get out, because every time they play they spend all their time practicing how to run out. Eventually, they're the players everyone in the league fears, because any time you miss they're a threat to get out. This basically describes my development in 8-ball; not that I was ever a GREAT 8-ball player, but I became that guy in my division who was fairly consistent at punishing mistakes (or celebrate successful breaks) with run-outs where others might duck.

Then there are players who look for the safety first (usually because they've been coached to do so by their captains), fearing the sell-out above all else. These players just never learn to run out. They think so hard about "what if I miss" at every open shot, that they teach themselves to think of nothing but missing. And as a 4, you can win a lot of matches, particularly against other 4s, by being cautious and thinking defensively. But you never truly become a good player. There were multitudes of these players in my division, and they made up winning teams a lot of the time, but they never improved.

To be a good pool player, you have to have a strong safety game, but in my opinion you also have to have a healthy disinclination to resort to it, at least for the portion of your development where you're trying to go from a player who runs some balls to a player who runs all the way out. Nothing will teach you to get all the way out other than being willing to go for it, IMO.

-Andrew

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

When I only have the 8 Ball and my opponent has most of his balls and he plays safe I'm very happy to get another shot. Although I will probably get a extremely tough shot to make the 8 at least I get another shot!!!

Bottom line is when you get down to the 8 ball and miss you deserve to loose the game and will 95%+ of the time against a good player.

 

[JMD in VA]

Thanks Double D!

Honestly, you should look at this as the guy being patient enough to play a game he believed he could win, rather than trying a run-out he may have had doubts about. Tap, Tap, Tap! I am glad someone said it!


Buy the guy a beer next time you see him, he deserves it and he'll understand your state of mind. Tap, Tap, Tap! Good man!

 

[Ken_4fun]

The other poor Sportsman conduct that I have done, and then when I had it done to me is after losing, immediately ask to gamble, like they could never beat you if they were gambling and they just lucked in the win.

The correct way is to shake hands and congradulate them on their win.

Later, maybe a few days later, is okay to ask them to gamble, but to immediately ask after being beat in silly league play is poor sports.

Ken

 

[sr 9ball]

8 ball is like a chess game. u should of gotten out but didnt. hes now got alot more pieces to play with. just try to out smart him. buy tieing up his balls best u can. crate the most trouble u can. yes he gets ball in hand but he'll most likely play safe again after one or two shots. then tie some more balls up. it sounds like your a better shot maker then him. be patient. play smart and learn from every game.

 

[Secaucus Fats]

sounds like he played his gamevery well and you didn't play your game very well. Sounds like he may have been overmatched on skill level alone, recognized it and out manuvered you. *tap*tap* He didn't make a mistake, you did. A mistake would have been for him to try a shot or run he was not comfortable with and giving you a chance to get back on the table with a makable shot. You should have said well played, appreciated that and been angry with yourself.

I agree 100% and I could not have said it any better.

 

[8Ball48043]

I've always been taught (with regard to 9-ball anyway), if you can't run-out, then hide.

Perhaps your opponent was an inferior player and the original lie on the table did not give him confidence he could start a run-out, therefore the safety. Perhaps, mid-way thru his run, he didn't get the shape he wanted, faced a harder shot than he wanted, or was unable to be from that ball to the next, and chose to hide.

All good reasons, from my vantage point.

 

[jason]

I know its bad form, and safety play is a huge part of the game, but that being said would this anger you guys.

League night and I broke and run down the table, unfortunately I got lazy on an easy stop shot for the out, and missed the shot leaving my ball on the short rail at the foot of the table.

The guy coming in has 7 wide open balls, nothing frozen, nothing touching another ball. He procedes to play safeties (four in a row) instead of trying to run out the table he had (i wouldnt call it a touch run out). On the fourth safety he got ball in hand and then ran 4 played another safety (again could have been out, the shots were there.) Long story short, i ended up loosing the game (hard to make a 2 rail kick for the win.

By the end of the game he could tell I was upset and came over and said good game, didnt think I would beat you. I responded with you didnt, I lost the game myself by not finishing. You by no means beat me. (Well he did beat me, but not in a way that deserves credit.) To me it was like when playing no cue ball fouls (bar rules around here) and scratching on purpose when your opponents only object ball is in the kitchen.

I know I am being a poor sport but to steal a line from Peter Griffin "It really grinds my gears." Now that I cooled off I understand I sounded like a dick and owe this player an apology but would this piss you off?

JM

First off, you shouldn't have missed that ball, but it happens.

Secondly, you had 4 chances that you shouldn't have had. Be thankful. A kick chance to win is better than no chance to win at all.

Thirdly, you shouldn't have lost that game even after running 7 and missing. Here is why:

He obviously isn't a strong player or he would have ran an open table. You had other options to try. For example you could have intensionally fouled and tried to tie his balls up. This would have given you sometime and made it even more difficult for him to get out. Eventually he would have made a mistake (because he is a weak player and can't run an open table) and given you a realistic opportunity.

Fourthly (is that a word? lol), you do owe him an apology. He has every right to play how he wants no matter how stupid it is. There wasn't any reason to get mad. Pool is really an individual sport. You only true opponent is the table.

 

[manwon]

I know its bad form, and safety play is a huge part of the game, but that being said would this anger you guys.

League night and I broke and run down the table, unfortunately I got lazy on an easy stop shot for the out, and missed the shot leaving my ball on the short rail at the foot of the table.

The guy coming in has 7 wide open balls, nothing frozen, nothing touching another ball. He procedes to play safeties (four in a row) instead of trying to run out the table he had (i wouldnt call it a touch run out). On the fourth safety he got ball in hand and then ran 4 played another safety (again could have been out, the shots were there.) Long story short, i ended up loosing the game (hard to make a 2 rail kick for the win.

By the end of the game he could tell I was upset and came over and said good game, didnt think I would beat you. I responded with you didnt, I lost the game myself by not finishing. You by no means beat me. (Well he did beat me, but not in a way that deserves credit.) To me it was like when playing no cue ball fouls (bar rules around here) and scratching on purpose when your opponents only object ball is in the kitchen.

I know I am being a poor sport but to steal a line from Peter Griffin "It really grinds my gears." Now that I cooled off I understand I sounded like a dick and owe this player an apology but would this piss you off?

JM

Suck it up and act like a Sportsman, I would bet that even with the guy shooting safeties you had opportunities to shoot and because you were angry you also did not close out the game. Whenever, you get a chance to shoot you must take advantage of, while your sitting and waiting your turn calm yourself so you are ready when you get to shoot, because fear / anger are the mind killers.

 

[Fenwick]

I've been on both sides of this scenario and took it for what it was. It happens to me most often after beating a A player who can see they can't run out with the clusters left on the table the next game we play and know they can't risk giving me a shot at the 8. Even A players can and do miss.
I'm the type of player who says thank you, nice shot when left with a almost impossible leave even if it was a fluke. They find it odd I'm not upset. Some even think I'm being sarcastic, I'm not. Getting upset is wasted energy IMO.
After the game I always shake hands and tell them they played a really smart game against me.
Isn't the saying don't run 7 if you can't run 8?
Just my opinion.

 

[jmizzo]

I already know I owe him an apology, and i shouldnt be mad (why i named the thread that.) I was just asking if others get that frustrated. I just thought there was too many for having an open table (my thought was he was told to go for the three foul rule on me, but out of 5 safeties he got ball in hand once. I know it was my mistake for not running out (mental block im sure happens to everyone, taking easy shots for granted). I do owe him and am making it up by stopping after leagues to the bar he plays for to buy him a drink and apologize. Was just wondering if others get that bent out of shape during league play.

Also - Thanks for all the great advice and criticism. I realize I should have tied his balls up to give myself a better chance, but I made a choice at the beginning of the year to play balls out for the most part as I feel in the league I play I would have an unfair advantage if I played a safe when I know I should. (Not trying to sound conceded, I just moved to a small town and they put me in a lower league that I shouldnt be, I have been playing in the pool halls around Minneapolis for the last 5 years.) My Ero % right now in the league is almost 20% (not good enough though). So I can understand his frame of mind. I was just frustrated. Thanks again for everything AZer's, I really do appreciate it. This thread will help me during future games. (not sarcastic)

JM

 

[Cameron Smith]

You do what you have to in order to win (within the rules of the game and sportsmanship of course). I don't know what kind of player he was, but if he didn't feel confident in the shot, he made the right choice by playing safe. It's annoying, but if it works it works.

By contrast i was playing snooker with a gentleman a week ago, and I was playing horrifically. My confidence was in the toilet I felt like everything was too tough. Although I had what some would have considered opportunities for a sizeable break, I knew that in my current state a more cagey response was more appropriate. It worked.

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

League/pro defensive shots have enough restrictions to make them difficult to plan and perform. Bar rule defensive shots are just nasty. Honest defensive shots are part of the game, as you said, so I wouldn't feel his safeties were wrong. I would be frustrated at myself at letting it happen, not upset with the opponent.