UPA Sanctioning - Q&A

JB Cases said:
I think he meant that the BCA "outsourced" it to AZ Billiards. Of course prior to this the rankings were "outsourced" to the UPA so I guess the dispute is over who gets to do them :-)
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Oh, I did not know that they were outsourcing it to AzBilliards. I thought AzBilliards was going to be a consultant to BCA.

Do the BCA voting members consist of mainly pool media people? I see many Billiards Digest names -- publisher, editors, writers -- sometimes as voting members on BCA-related things.

Is it odd to have media people in charge of the sport, or is this customary in all sports? I'm not sure if that is the norm.

I will say the American print media is very familiar with our pool players and our culture. For years and years, though, the American print media only wrote articles about the tournament soldiers, like Sigel, Strickland, and Varner.

They didn't seem to archive or create a strong historical record about our American legends, like Cornbread Red, Weenie Beenie, Jimmy Mataya, Jimmy Reid, Kentucky Bear, Larry Lisciotti, Vernon Elliot, et cetera.

Today, thankfully, OnePocket.org and Steve Booth has stepped up to the plate and done American pool a great service by creating a historical record for these American pool phenoms. These American legends are just as important to American pool as Sigel, Strickland, and Varner, IMHO!

JAM
 
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I would be in support of an organization that included Mike Janis, Frank Alvarez, myself, and other influential people within our game working side by side to accomplish the same mission.

Divided, we'll keep running east looking for a sunset. Together we could kick some major ass in the pool world.

Think about that and get back with me.
 
Blackjack said:
I would be in support of an organization that included Mike Janis, Frank Alvarez, myself, and other influential people within our game

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Think about that and get back with me.
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Just out of curiousity, why do U think U R qualified or 1 of the influential people?

Brian
 
APA7 said:
Just out of curiousity, why do U think U R qualified or 1 of the influential people?

Brian
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Because he's willing to do it out of the kindness of his heart, with nothing expected in return. He has been around the American pool scene for quite a while. That knowledge and experience base is helpful in this instance.

JAM
 
Rankings are not outsourced

The BCA has not outsourced the rankings to AZBilliards as they did to the UPA. If they had the rankings would be called the AZB rankings, not the BCA rankings. AZB has simply agreed to do the calculations for the BCA since we get the tournament results immediately and can have the rankings updated within 24-48 hours of an event being concluded without having to add any staff or expense. The rankings are then taken by the BCA and distributed to all media outlets. AZBilliards does not post them before any other media group and enjoys no advantages by maintaining the rankings on our computers. Just to get it out in the clear we do not receive any payment for this service or any value whatsoever. In fact, we can no longer solicit board members of the BCA for advertising as it might appear to be a 'wash my back and I'll wash yours' situation and we are doing everything we can to avoid the appearance of anything unsightly.

Anyone who tells you that AZB in any way has a dog in this fight is wrong. Our goal is to promote the game on both the amateur and professional level and to present the news of the game as it occurs in an unbiased manner.
 
so the UPA is basically a scam then? what exactly does it do for the players? it doesnt create new tournaments (or really have a tour), just "sactions" existing tourneys that UPA players are probably already playing in anyway. it doesnt guarantee payment of their players.

what does it do? oh yeah it "lets the players govern themselves". what the hell does that mean? theres a piece of sophisty if i ever heard one.

it sounds like the UPA is a great vehicle so a few pple dont have to have real jobs.

i agree that the pro players need a strong oragnization to act in their interests, but it doesnt sound like the UPA is that oragnization, although like a lot of unions, the membership seems to think their getting a good deal.

brian
 
JB Cases said:
Mike,

Are you a voting member of the BCA? I mean is your company a voting member?

Yes, the Viking Tour is a Voting member of the BCA.

I do not understand how you could not be allowed to run for the board. This seems awfully shady to me.

It had that appearance to me to at first.

I know nothing of the BCA's bylaws but I always assumed that any voting member in good standing could be nominated for and run for the board of directors.

Key word = nominated. John, appearantly as a Voting Member of the BCA you have to be NOMINATED by the BCA nominations committee to run as a board member.

I think it's a travesty that you were not even allowed to run. Amazing what assholes people can be.

I say, screw them all. Get on board with the people who have the real power in this industry. The players and the room owners. Every bar with leagues and pool players in it is your target.

I am in your corner and will gladly donate some of my time to help you where I can. Go and build the broadest base you can and the BCA/UPA/ABCDEFGYTII groups will be begging you to align with them.

Start with the local weekly tournaments and build from there. Get them to fund a spot every four weeks into a larger regional event. Build it city by city.

WHO HERE IS WITH ME IN HELPING MIKE JANIS BUILD THIS?????/

ARE you ALL tired of reading the same old political crap year after year on AZ?????

Wouldn't you rather read about how your friends and buddies are doing as pool players and about the success stories?

IF YOU ARE SINCERE IN YOUR DESIRE TO PROMOTE POOL THEN LET'S DO THIS ON A LOCAL LEVEL AND FORGET ALL THE *****ING ABOUT WHO "GOVERNS" POOL.

I nominate Mike Janis for first president of this new anti-organization organization.
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Thanks John,

Mj
 
Here is your answer to Mr. Bryant...

UPA President said:
In a matter of one day, a player's life was completely changed, in that they no longer had the right or the ablity to govern their rules, formats, rankings, sanctioning guideliness, tour control, etc. They weren't even alotted a phone call, or email, or meeting. Here is a perfect qoute:

"I am insulted that this decision was made without consulting the touring professionals that will be directly affected by the change or the organization that represents us. The UPA has always looked out for our interests here in the United States where we live and compete in the majority of our events. I think the decision should be left up to us and our player association."

Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant
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Quote from the BCA Letter:



Sometimes they are filled, sometimes not (with no updates along the way as to interest in participating), sometimes they are turned down at the last minute (so the spots can't be filled by another organization), deadlines are constantly missed for keeping us and the WPA in the loop on this process and communication to the players regarding this event is inconsistent and unprofessional at best.
This makes us all look extremely unprofessional. To sanction a rankings event without regard to the fact that a major world competition had already filled those dates on a public calendar months before was irresponsible enough to warrant corrective action. Additionally, seats to another WPA world championship were offered when they were not authorized or permitted. Add this to past infractions such as the failure of the UPA to inform all of the eligible players that the BCA was providing a $1,300 travel stipend to all American competitors in the WPA World 9-Ball Championships last fall and it is obvious that the BCA could no longer tolerate the results of allowing the UPA to manage this process.

For example, Shane Van Boening went to the World 8-Ball Championship and sacrificed 25% of his points for 2008 because he missed the Desert Shootout. This is patently unacceptable as we will not have the American champions treated unprofessionally and unfairly. Further detriment to American players continues today with the unbelievable demand, supported by the UPA, to remove certain players from the BCA rankings list,

End quote.

Basically, the UPA had it's shot to govern the rankings list and they did not perform well enough to satisfy the organization that held the rights to that rankings list. End of story.

Do you dispute the claim by the BCA that your communication with them was "inconsistent and unprofessional?

Were you concerned with Shane Van Boening losing his points?

Do you deny that the UPA arbitrarily demanded that certain players be removed from the rankings?

If any of these are true, then it is TOTALLY the UPA's fault that the BCA stripped them of the right to govern the rankings list.

MM
 
smashmouth said:
lol, way off base there partner
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That would be difficult for you to determine because you don't seem to know where the base is.

Why have you ducked this question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashmouth
a)he's not being honest
b)nothing to stop him from paying up right now

check your facts little doggie


What FACTS do you rely on to prove that the UPA is under any obligation to pay off for a dead beat promotor when the players knowingly and willingly played in an event that they KNEW did NOT have prize money guarantees from ANYONE?

I'll be interested in your reply.

Regards,
Jim
 
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=26

The Nominating Committee is responsible for the oversight of the annual BCA Board of Directors elections.


Bob Radford, Chair
Kathy Etheridge
John Petti[/QUOTE]


JAM said:
Who are they? I have never heard their names before. How do they qualify to be on the Nominating Committee?

Do you think they have ever heard of Shane Van Boening?

JAM
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Jam, if you go to the below link you can see who they are:
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=21


They are all BCA Board of Directors:
Bob Radford (V), Antique Billiard Supply, 815.965.7665
Kathy Etheridge (V), Showcase Billiards, 303.457.2501
John Petti (V), Atlas Billiard Supplies, 847.674.1234

Jam as a note: all of the names on the previous link I provided for the nominations committe have just recently appeared again on the BCA page. Origionally there was a list then it disapeared for about 2 months???

Why, I don't know. I can only speculate.

However, I can guarantee you that many of us prospectives that wanted to run for board seats in a general election would most definately have campaigned directly to them to further our agendas that we would like to see the BCA accomplish.

I can honestly say that after spending several thousands of dollars which includes becoming a BCA Voting Member for $1,000 and the time I took to prepare, Fly to stay at and attend the BCA BOD meeting in phoenix for the proposal and all the time I spent campaigning and such. I AM HUGELY DISAPOINTED with the entire process.

In fact, the BOD's that I have spoke with after this process was complete tried to assure me to stay my course and keep up what I am trying to accomplish. Honestly, it's going to be difficult but I will keep plugging away. At least until I can find other means of supporting myself and famly financially. Right now, its whichever comes 1st. If something good non pool related comes 1st it will be with deep regret when I inform my sponsors and players. Honestly, this year is the 1st time in the last 20yrs that I am looking for a job outside of the billiard industry.

Mj
 
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MikeJanis said:
In fact, the BOD's that I have spoke with after this process was complete tried to assure me to stay my course and keep up what I am trying to accomplish. Honestly, it's going to be difficult but I will keep plugging away. At least until I can find other means of supporting myself and famly financially. Right now, its whichever comes 1st. If something good non pool related comes 1st it will be with deep regret when I inform my sponsors and players. Honestly, this year is the 1st time in the last 20yrs that I am looking for a job outside of the billiard industry.

Mj
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Mike

I understand your plight. It's very hard to penetrate "the bubble" from the inside or from the outside. You and I are both trying to accomplish the same thing, and we both have great ideas, inside connections, and support from a lot of different people.

My agenda is to bring together the most competent people and most imaginative minds in out game to build an entity that is self-sustaining. I am willing to do that with or without the help of the BCA, WPA - but I refuse to work with anybody else that refuses to see the severity of the current situation that we find ourselves in.

If you get a chance, touch base with me this week.
 
av84fun said:
the players knowingly and willingly played in an event that they KNEW did NOT have prize money guarantees from ANYONE?
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Why do you keep stating this? This is far from accurate.

By your own admission, you state your unfamiliarity with the UPA and it's business dealings, you should leave it at that or do some research
 
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