USTA (tennis org) Lifts Ban on Russians and Belarusians. WPA (pool org) should also!

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
independent pollsters are now labelled foreign agents in russia, and hence prohibited to do independent polls. i would take any number of estimated support for the war with a grain of salt.

the problem with demanding that athletes denounce the dictatorship and its actions is that it's a dictatorship. it can have repercussions on your family. russia has a draft so it's fully possible that such a denounciation will throw your brother into the war. some nuances are needed when considering these things.

i have seen some hockey players and long distance skiers praise the war. i'm all for banning them. but assuming guilt and/or opinions just because someone was born within a certain country's borders is unfair.
 

kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
YES and Deserving of all... Maybe someday Stu you can have that mountain top and a big old pool room , with good lighting , for what you do, I'll pray... Guy
Thanks for the thought, Guy, but these days I'm far too lazy to run a business of any kind.
 

Guy Manges

Registered
Thanks for the thought, Guy, but these days I'm far too lazy to run a business of any kind.
The business would be you, Top of the mountain would be to live out life... room with a table, I don't know about you , But I play the table more than the people... Guy
 

Guy Manges

Registered
independent pollsters are now labelled foreign agents in russia, and hence prohibited to do independent polls. i would take any number of estimated support for the war with a grain of salt.

the problem with demanding that athletes denounce the dictatorship and its actions is that it's a dictatorship. it can have repercussions on your family. russia has a draft so it's fully possible that such a denounciation will throw your brother into the war. some nuances are needed when considering these things.

i have seen some hockey players and long distance skiers praise the war. i'm all for banning them. but assuming guilt and/or opinions just because someone was born within a certain country's borders is unfair.
I think us (U.S. pouring support and monies could be the end of us... Ukraine is Russia and we are not going to stop that... Ukrainian people have been asking the United States citizens for financial support for many years, Many years... pray not )... I think someday we will have to take in South America ( if we don't wait to long ) then we will see exactly what Russia is going through... Guy
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok. I'm a little late in this discussion. So much changed in my life after the invasion and my focus is on so different things which are far from what they've been before... 114 days ago I had the job I loved ...working with kids at our pool school and I was happy to see their smiles. After 24th of February everything changed. Most of the kids had to leave their homes together with their families. Some were in real danger but thanks to God now in safe. Many had to leave the country and waiting for coming back to their homes. My colleague Victoria also had to leave the country. When it comes to tournaments... while there is a war going and we live under martial law...there is main priority - everything for our forces to resist the invasion...everything for the victory.
So while they kill our kids, women, men ...committing so many war crimes ... destroy and level with the ground some of our cities...well at the same time most of the russians at their country don't feel the war. The propaganda is working. They called it special operation so to free my country. Obviously the majority support so called operation. What I see...they have their national tournaments going. For example at the moment there is so called "World championship in Free piramid" going organized by the organization which was out of billiard family. What a joke...
The truth is most russian athletes, coaches were silent, did not have any courage to show their opinion while their federation used them and addressed the letter on behalf of them.
As usual somebody else is guilty and responsible but not them. Nothing new...

I'm old enough to remember the life in Soviet union and after watching a few minutes of the parade on the 9th of May ... well instead of listening to propaganda they would better read "1984" by J.Oruell ... freedom is slavery, the war is peace, the ignorance is power...lol

Honestly after all this genocide of our people I don't care about them. Would some of them show their position against and do some actions my opinion could change when it comes to some but...
I had some experience with them in the past, attended some tournaments, training camps so on, had sympathies to some players...well it's all in the past. I can live without it.

What I really care and missing that's my lessons with the kids...waiting for the peace and the time we are able to resume training and of course waiting for some hugs.


NOW I guess it is important to show how all the story began.
There was a letter from the president of russian federation of billiard sports on the 15th of March and here it is translated to English by my mentor Jorgen Sandman.
I'll better show Jorgen's post from his FB page after he saw my post a few days earlier...

"That it is important to separate sports and politics is very often stated, even though it sometimes is very difficult, if not to say impossible. Based upon the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the IOC a few weeks ago decided to first ban all international sports events in Russia and Belarus, and then to also recommend all international sports federations to ban participation of Russian and Belarussian athletes at international events outside of the two countries.

This recommendation has since been accepted by most international sports federations, if not all, and so also the World Confederation of Billiards Sports together with its member federations for Carom, Pool and Snooker. In turn Russian and Belarussian athletes are for the time being not any longer allowed to participate at continental and world championships, as well as at other international events.

That athletes cannot be blamed for the politics that governs a country, is certainly true in most cases. It is also true that athletes very often receive benefits that other compatriots do not, again often based upon politics. Irrespective of who is who and who is responsible for what, Russian and Belarussian athletes currently are not able to pursue their careers. However, so also not the Ukrainian athletes. Not because they are banned but because their focus has shifted. Instead of preparing for the next sporting event they are now fighting for their freedom and their own lives and the lives of their families.

Five days ago, Sergii, a former student of mine at the National University of Physical Education and Sports of Ukraine, made me aware of a letter that the President and the First Vice President of the Russian Billiards Sports Federation have published and addressed to Putin. So did also Viktoria yesterday, another student of mine from the same university. Both have participated at national and international events as athletes, but more importantly they are acting as coaches and teachers for all athletes that represent Ukraine at international events in recent years.

As far as I have been able to see, mentioned letter so far has only been published in Russian language. I therefore feel that it is about time that a translation of the letter in English will be posted:

“To the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin

Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

The Russian Billiard Sports Federation, athletes, coaches and judges, being part of the Russian sports community, feel the need to declare support for your actions as the head of state and the army in this difficult time of total lies and information chaos.

We are closely following the course of the special operation to protect the Russian-speaking population in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. What is happening in Ukraine resonates with pain in the heart of literally every Russian, because we are fraternal peoples and have close family, friendly and professional ties.

The Federation of Billiard Sports of Russia as a public organization today sees its mission not only in the development of intellectual sports, but also in the transmission of its inherent ideas of cold-blooded restraint, making informed decisions, the correct response to manipulation attempts by openly hostile forces.

We urge you not to retreat from the position of defending Russia's interests in the international arena and to complete the operation to establish peace in Ukraine.

P.N. Zavalny, President of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation
Ya.L. Firsov, First Vice President - Executive Director”


Separating sports from politics may be the concern of many. It is obvious that not all are guided by the same sentiment!"
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Ok. I'm a little late in this discussion. So much changed in my life after the invasion and my focus is on so different things which are far from what they've been before... 114 days ago I had the job I loved ...working with kids at our pool school and I was happy to see their smiles. After 24th of February everything changed. Most of the kids had to leave their homes together with their families. Some were in real danger but thanks to God now in safe. Many had to leave the country and waiting for coming back to their homes. My colleague Victoria also had to leave the country. When it comes to tournaments... while there is a war going and we live under martial law...there is main priority - everything for our forces to resist the invasion...everything for the victory.
So while they kill our kids, women, men ...committing so many war crimes ... destroy and level with the ground some of our cities...well at the same time most of the russians at their country don't feel the war. The propaganda is working. They called it special operation so to free my country. Obviously the majority support so called operation. What I see...they have their national tournaments going. For example at the moment there is so called "World championship in Free piramid" going organized by the organization which was out of billiard family. What a joke...
The truth is most russian athletes, coaches were silent, did not have any courage to show their opinion while their federation used them and addressed the letter on behalf of them.
As usual somebody else is guilty and responsible but not them. Nothing new...

I'm old enough to remember the life in Soviet union and after watching a few minutes of the parade on the 9th of May ... well instead of listening to propaganda they would better read "1984" by J.Oruell ... freedom is slavery, the war is peace, the ignorance is power...lol

Honestly after all this genocide of our people I don't care about them. Would some of them show their position against and do some actions my opinion could change when it comes to some but...
I had some experience with them in the past, attended some tournaments, training camps so on, had sympathies to some players...well it's all in the past. I can live without it.

What I really care and missing that's my lessons with the kids...waiting for the peace and the time we are able to resume training and of course waiting for some hugs.


NOW I guess it is important to show how all the story began.
There was a letter from the president of russian federation of billiard sports on the 15th of March and here it is translated to English by my mentor Jorgen Sandman.
I'll better show Jorgen's post from his FB page after he saw my post a few days earlier...

"That it is important to separate sports and politics is very often stated, even though it sometimes is very difficult, if not to say impossible. Based upon the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the IOC a few weeks ago decided to first ban all international sports events in Russia and Belarus, and then to also recommend all international sports federations to ban participation of Russian and Belarussian athletes at international events outside of the two countries.

This recommendation has since been accepted by most international sports federations, if not all, and so also the World Confederation of Billiards Sports together with its member federations for Carom, Pool and Snooker. In turn Russian and Belarussian athletes are for the time being not any longer allowed to participate at continental and world championships, as well as at other international events.

That athletes cannot be blamed for the politics that governs a country, is certainly true in most cases. It is also true that athletes very often receive benefits that other compatriots do not, again often based upon politics. Irrespective of who is who and who is responsible for what, Russian and Belarussian athletes currently are not able to pursue their careers. However, so also not the Ukrainian athletes. Not because they are banned but because their focus has shifted. Instead of preparing for the next sporting event they are now fighting for their freedom and their own lives and the lives of their families.

Five days ago, Sergii, a former student of mine at the National University of Physical Education and Sports of Ukraine, made me aware of a letter that the President and the First Vice President of the Russian Billiards Sports Federation have published and addressed to Putin. So did also Viktoria yesterday, another student of mine from the same university. Both have participated at national and international events as athletes, but more importantly they are acting as coaches and teachers for all athletes that represent Ukraine at international events in recent years.

As far as I have been able to see, mentioned letter so far has only been published in Russian language. I therefore feel that it is about time that a translation of the letter in English will be posted:

“To the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin

Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

The Russian Billiard Sports Federation, athletes, coaches and judges, being part of the Russian sports community, feel the need to declare support for your actions as the head of state and the army in this difficult time of total lies and information chaos.

We are closely following the course of the special operation to protect the Russian-speaking population in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. What is happening in Ukraine resonates with pain in the heart of literally every Russian, because we are fraternal peoples and have close family, friendly and professional ties.

The Federation of Billiard Sports of Russia as a public organization today sees its mission not only in the development of intellectual sports, but also in the transmission of its inherent ideas of cold-blooded restraint, making informed decisions, the correct response to manipulation attempts by openly hostile forces.

We urge you not to retreat from the position of defending Russia's interests in the international arena and to complete the operation to establish peace in Ukraine.

P.N. Zavalny, President of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation
Ya.L. Firsov, First Vice President - Executive Director”


Separating sports from politics may be the concern of many. It is obvious that not all are guided by the same sentiment!"
Well said, and thanks for the education.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool purists continue to praise and like the WPA and what it's doing for pool.
I'm not too sure about this. I think most serious pool fans think the WPA is a cluster shambles.

Regarding the ban, there is no right answer. Some Russians (including those in professional sports) have even said the ban is the right thing to do.

As I said there is no right answer - and even though I might be accused by some of being as woke as they come, my personal opinion is that (regardless of whether it's right or wrong), the ban on Russian and Belorusian athletes is more acceptable than the boycott of the 1980 Olympic games.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok. I'm a little late in this discussion. So much changed in my life after the invasion and my focus is on so different things which are far from what they've been before... 114 days ago I had the job I loved ...working with kids at our pool school and I was happy to see their smiles. After 24th of February everything changed. Most of the kids had to leave their homes together with their families. Some were in real danger but thanks to God now in safe. Many had to leave the country and waiting for coming back to their homes. My colleague Victoria also had to leave the country. When it comes to tournaments... while there is a war going and we live under martial law...there is main priority - everything for our forces to resist the invasion...everything for the victory.
So while they kill our kids, women, men ...committing so many war crimes ... destroy and level with the ground some of our cities...well at the same time most of the russians at their country don't feel the war. The propaganda is working. They called it special operation so to free my country. Obviously the majority support so called operation. What I see...they have their national tournaments going. For example at the moment there is so called "World championship in Free piramid" going organized by the organization which was out of billiard family. What a joke...
The truth is most russian athletes, coaches were silent, did not have any courage to show their opinion while their federation used them and addressed the letter on behalf of them.
As usual somebody else is guilty and responsible but not them. Nothing new...

I'm old enough to remember the life in Soviet union and after watching a few minutes of the parade on the 9th of May ... well instead of listening to propaganda they would better read "1984" by J.Oruell ... freedom is slavery, the war is peace, the ignorance is power...lol

Honestly after all this genocide of our people I don't care about them. Would some of them show their position against and do some actions my opinion could change when it comes to some but...
I had some experience with them in the past, attended some tournaments, training camps so on, had sympathies to some players...well it's all in the past. I can live without it.

What I really care and missing that's my lessons with the kids...waiting for the peace and the time we are able to resume training and of course waiting for some hugs.


NOW I guess it is important to show how all the story began.
There was a letter from the president of russian federation of billiard sports on the 15th of March and here it is translated to English by my mentor Jorgen Sandman.
I'll better show Jorgen's post from his FB page after he saw my post a few days earlier...

"That it is important to separate sports and politics is very often stated, even though it sometimes is very difficult, if not to say impossible. Based upon the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the IOC a few weeks ago decided to first ban all international sports events in Russia and Belarus, and then to also recommend all international sports federations to ban participation of Russian and Belarussian athletes at international events outside of the two countries.

This recommendation has since been accepted by most international sports federations, if not all, and so also the World Confederation of Billiards Sports together with its member federations for Carom, Pool and Snooker. In turn Russian and Belarussian athletes are for the time being not any longer allowed to participate at continental and world championships, as well as at other international events.

That athletes cannot be blamed for the politics that governs a country, is certainly true in most cases. It is also true that athletes very often receive benefits that other compatriots do not, again often based upon politics. Irrespective of who is who and who is responsible for what, Russian and Belarussian athletes currently are not able to pursue their careers. However, so also not the Ukrainian athletes. Not because they are banned but because their focus has shifted. Instead of preparing for the next sporting event they are now fighting for their freedom and their own lives and the lives of their families.

Five days ago, Sergii, a former student of mine at the National University of Physical Education and Sports of Ukraine, made me aware of a letter that the President and the First Vice President of the Russian Billiards Sports Federation have published and addressed to Putin. So did also Viktoria yesterday, another student of mine from the same university. Both have participated at national and international events as athletes, but more importantly they are acting as coaches and teachers for all athletes that represent Ukraine at international events in recent years.

As far as I have been able to see, mentioned letter so far has only been published in Russian language. I therefore feel that it is about time that a translation of the letter in English will be posted:

“To the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin

Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

The Russian Billiard Sports Federation, athletes, coaches and judges, being part of the Russian sports community, feel the need to declare support for your actions as the head of state and the army in this difficult time of total lies and information chaos.

We are closely following the course of the special operation to protect the Russian-speaking population in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. What is happening in Ukraine resonates with pain in the heart of literally every Russian, because we are fraternal peoples and have close family, friendly and professional ties.

The Federation of Billiard Sports of Russia as a public organization today sees its mission not only in the development of intellectual sports, but also in the transmission of its inherent ideas of cold-blooded restraint, making informed decisions, the correct response to manipulation attempts by openly hostile forces.

We urge you not to retreat from the position of defending Russia's interests in the international arena and to complete the operation to establish peace in Ukraine.

P.N. Zavalny, President of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation
Ya.L. Firsov, First Vice President - Executive Director”


Separating sports from politics may be the concern of many. It is obvious that not all are guided by the same sentiment!"
Interesting that in the second letter of support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine there is no mention of the "special operation" that shut off and surrounded the Southern port cities and tried to overrun Kiev, the capital of Ukriane. In the outlying areas north of Kiev is where many of the worst atrocities have taken place. The initial invasion of Ukraine was both from the North and the South in an attempt to overrun the country, oust their leadership (or kill them) and replace their government with a Russian contingent. They conveniently left that part out! It is only recently that the Russian forces have pulled back due to their overwhelming losses, to redirect their invasion to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the East, where they have Russian separatists supporting them. This letter is a perfect example of the propaganda being disseminated to the Russian citizens and the world at large. Some of us (most I would hope) don't buy this BS! In my opinion any member of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation who does not disavow their membership should not be allowed to compete anywhere outside of Russia.

Note that this atrocious letter of support for Putin makes a point to include all the billiard athletes and coaches, so yes they are part and parcel of this line of thought. Shame on them if they remain an active member of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation.
 
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S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting that in the second letter of support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine there is no mention of the "special operation" that shut off and surrounded the Southern port cities and tried to overrun Kiev, the capital of Ukriane. In the outlying areas north of Kiev is where many of the worst atrocities have taken place. The initial invasion of Ukraine was both from the North and the South in an attempt to overrun the country, oust their leadership (or kill them) and replace their government with a Russian contingent. They conveniently left that part out! It is only recently that the Russian forces have pulled back due to their overwhelming losses, to redirect their invasion to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the East, where they have Russian separatists supporting them. This letter is a perfect example of the propaganda being disseminated to the Russian citizens and the world at large. Some of us (most I would hope) don't buy this BS! In my opinion any member of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation who does not disavow their membership should not be allowed to compete anywhere outside of Russia.

Note that this atrocious letter of support for Putin makes a point to include all the billiard athletes and coaches, so yes they are part and parcel of this line of thought. Shame on them if they remain an active member of the Russian Billiard Sports Federation.

The goal of that political regime was pretty obvious. Their problem was...they came with their dress uniform to take part in the parade on Khreshchatyk street in Kiev and they were said they'll be greeted with flowers.
Yes we used to live together back then in U.S.S.R. and they used to call us their brothers hypocritically.
At last the masks are torn off and the whole world could see the difference between the russians and ukrainians.
Human life is nothing for them. They are much more concerned about the losses in all kinds of weapons. The best language they understand are those "flowers" they were greeted in Kiev, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkiv, Mykolaiv and many other cities and villages.
That was the main argument why their goals became smaller and smaller.
Unfortunately no one in my country could do as much as their leader for uniting the ukrainian people. This war gave us so many lessons and showed who is who.
Hopefully more and more people will understand why it is important to know the history so to not make the same mistakes having illusions.

Last time I was in Russia (Moscow) in 2010. That was the training camp with Alex Lely and Nick van den Berg before the European championships. I went there together with a talented youngster I coached who had been preparing for that EPC. It was very useful experience.
After 2013 I attended Minsk two times (Belarus). I took the guys there by car for two stages of Baltic cup. They were nice trips and useful experience because we could also see how the people live in there, what they think about the situation in our country (it was after our eurorevolution in 2013/14 and russian aggression that followed ) and I remember some opinions on the theme so I was not surprised their dictator was able to crush the protests five years later.
Everyone makes his own decision whether to submit or fight for the right to choose...
Yes each day we have to pay a huge price losing our best countrymen but we know what we are fighting for...

When it comes to russians in pool... what they achieved and lost now?
The list of their losses is quite long but in terms of what their political regime is losing that is just a drop in the sea.
Once their regime and their war machine is so much exhausted they have to crawl away we'll see what their athletes are worth.
They should learn the lesson and understand cause and effect relationships. They should feel what they've lost.
I'm glad the future of pool is in good hands and so as they are british there's a good chance for that.
 
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MitchDAZB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess you know the direction of russian warship...
No, but I do know the OSCE's stat on LDNR civilians killed by the AFU over the past 8 years: 14,000 dead. OSCE also has the stats on increased shelling by AFU prior to Feb 24. RF had no choice but to put an end to that.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Much to reflect, realize on,

Hopefully more and more people will understand why it is important to know the history so to not make the same mistakes having illusions. [S.Vaskovskyi]​

who is OSCE, LDNR, AFU, RF? Is this about the northeast region of Ukraine that did not accept the USSR default?
I'm guessing "RF" is maybe russian federation
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No, but I do know the OSCE's stat on LDNR civilians killed by the AFU over the past 8 years: 14,000 dead. OSCE also has the stats on increased shelling by AFU prior to Feb 24. RF had no choice but to put an end to that.

Yeah, right...and that's why "russian speaking" cities in my country suffer the most from russians. Tell this BS to somebody else.
Would you understand the russian language you could go on youtube to V.Zolkin and listen to the interviews with russian prizoners and those from so called LDNR ... or just forget and look for the mentioned direction.
 

Vahmurka

...and I get all da rolls
Silver Member
post #28 was probably the last when the thread was pool-related in any kind. Since then it is long overdue to be in NPR section.
 
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