videos or lessons?

jessiedoll said:
Yes, but your Algebra teacher was there everyday. And if you had a question, the following day at school, he was available.

I am ALWAYS available, either via the internet or by phone, to every one of my students...whether it is the next day, or 10 years down the road. Plus, they receive enough information, on the tapes of their lessons, that they can answer most questions, by reviewing the tape(s).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Coming down on Jessiedoll seems alittle harsh to me.She is intitled to her opinion ,is she not? This guy wanted some feed back and man he sure got it. I have taken lessons,bought books,and videos. All help with your game in my opinion. I think some instructors are better then others. Maybe its not as much as what they teach but getting the student to understand it so they can repeat it. I found a local instructor ,he doesn't charge a arm and leg for lessons and my game is coming along.
 
Jessiedoll,
Just for the record, most of my students do not pay my hourly rate, which is much less than $75/hr. Most of them choose to take a class for a flat fee which is even lower than the hourly rate.

Most instructors also are required to attend classes in order to maintain their certifications. We pay for the classes, and all travel expenses associated with them. I don't think any of the instructors I know are getting rich teaching pool. Most of us do it because we have a passion for what we do, and we want to do the best job possible.

And I agree with you....I much prefer civil discussions to mud-slinging.
Steve
 
oceanweb said:
Lessons from a paid BCA instructor are not the best way to improve your game. If you are thinking about buying a cue and ask a Lucasi dealer his opinion, he will probably try to sell you a Lucasi. However, if you want an honest, "I'm not going to make a dollar and neither will my buddies opinion", keep reading.

The great thing about pool is that there are so many of us who absolutely love the game and are excited to share our knowledge and experience with others at no cost. You will spend at most 6 hours with a paid instructor. They will argue here that you will gain years of advanced knowledge, that your stroke will improve, you will be videotaped, etc., etc. There was one guy on here talking about how he can draw and stop the cue ball after his wonderful experience. You can learn that in five minutes.

Videos: (Accu-Stats) Get a few Accu-Stat videos and study them (Efren Reyes, Buddy Hall, Archer, etc.). You’ll notice that each player has a different stance, stroke, aim, etc. But also try to find the things they have in common (basic fundamentals), and then consider adapting your game to the player(s) that most fits your style. It’s like an artist or musician who says, “I was inspired by [name goes here]”.

Lessons: (local room owners and top players) Sure, the room owners may get a few dollars in table time and the top players may want you to pay their table time. But these guys will be around the next time you stop by and the paid instructor will be gone. If you want lessons, there are room owners and local top players that have vast knowledge of billiards and will help you with your stroke, stance, etc. from the basics to more advanced material.

Then, for “seasoning”, play in local tournaments and play your friends or other equally skilled players for a few dollars. This should give you a good all-around experience and improve your game (in time) and remember that it will take time.

100% agreed. I took free lessons at the local hall, and now I give them...
 
oceanweb said:
Private lesson:
$75/hr. or $500/day


Ok... I get it now!! ;)

Oceanweb, do you know Scott? I'm guessing, from your above quip, that you don't and you've never had a lesson from him.

He worked with me for over three hours and only charged for the two hours he promised in our agreement. That is integrity and marketing rolled into one. That places him in the positive category in my book. His knowledge and teaching style takes his value up farther.

He also knows about stroking the cue. He knows more about it than most, including people with weird strokes who can kick my ass on the table. Are my losses and my opponents' wins a reflection on Scott's value? Some might make that claim, but being a responsible person, I cannot. I am responsible for my shot.

Someone mentioned getting a lesson and watching the video. I just dumped my lesson tape onto a DVD and watched it for the first time since about 2 years ago. Damn!...there was THE answer to my stroke flaws that had creeped back into my shot since my lesson with Scott. A little work to restablish the better way of stroking and last night in league I stroked the best I've ever done.

And...and this is reflective of some the posts here...at league last night, better players than I were commenting on how BAD my stroke was! Here I was doing it better than I ever have and, instead of praise or emulation, I was getting dissed! There's a lesson there, for sure!

Comments from other players can ruin your shot if you let them affect you. I prefer, as does Tiger Woods, e.g., to use the advice of one who is a professional teacher/coach/advisor than listen to those who may have other motivations than my well being for their opinions on my shot.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Oceanweb, do you know Scott? I'm guessing, from your above quip, that you don't and you've never had a lesson from him.

No....but I've learned much from his posts here and in other places. He seems to have a problem with anyone that disagrees with his views.

chefjeff said:
He also knows about stroking the cue. He knows more about it than most, including people with weird strokes who can kick my ass on the table.

I doubt very seriously if he knows more about it than most. I'd rather have a weird stroke and "kick ass" on the pool table. Keith McCready has a very unusual stroke and he holds his own pretty well.

chefjeff said:
Comments from other players can ruin your shot if you let them affect you.

Yes, but advice from other players can also help. I'd rather listen to all opinions and decide for myself which advice to take.
 
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oceanweb said:
No....but I've learned much from his posts here and in other places. He seems to have a problem with anyone that disagrees with his views.



I doubt very seriously if he knows more about it than most. I'd rather have a weird stroke and "kick ass" on the pool table. Keith McCready has a very unusual stroke and he holds his own pretty well.



Yes, but advice from other players can also help. I'd rather listen to all opinions and decide for myself which advice to take.

Thanks for responding, oceanweb...

Your post reminded me that I was going to ask the originator of this thread what his goals are because that makes all the difference in how he approaches his choice of instruction. Believe it or not, not all players are in this crazy game just to win. Each has his own reason(s) and therefore one's way is not necessarily another's. Neither is right or wrong, just different.

And, as some wise AZer said in a post, it also depends on where in this player's pool journey he is.

Yeah, Keith would beat Scott, if word on the street is correct, but think what Keith could have done if he'd stood on a box when little and learned a more repeatable stroke. He did/does a lot, but what if he could have been even better with some early instruction!:eek:

Jeff Livingston
 
I am sure that both videos, books, and private lessons all have their value. While books and videos are certainly the more economical value, i really do not see how they can be compared to one on one training from a well trained professional. They give you instant advice, and can see what you are doing. The better ones also know or have learned how to teach. With cost being eliminated, their really is no comparison.

I work as a physical therapist. Each patient I see receives a detailed home exercise program that is demonstrated to them, and includes a handout with a detailed explanation of each exercise, and pictures that show the exercise. One of the first things I do on their 2nd visit is review their home exercises. I would say that approx 90% of people do some portion of the ex's incorrectly. It often takes multiple days before they are able to reproduce these exercises without my assistance. When talking with my colleagues, and looking at the research regarding the topic, this problem appears to be universal to the profession. The point here is that, when you can not see what you are doing, and do not already have a firm grasp of how it is suppossed to be done, it is very difficult to do it correctly without help. Worse yet, you may do it over and over again incorrectly without knowing it.

I would utilize both resources, but if you want to excel quickly, make sure your money is spent on good lessons.
 
So... What's your point, for those that don't want to relive the entire thread?
 
I think some people need thicker skins. Some people advertise on here.Thats fine. Some people have given good advice for free. Like I said I use all 3 learning methods(video,books,instructor). I use a local instructor now to work with about once a month or every other month. I took a lesson from a instructor that advertises on here. I 've been using what he told me for about two months almost everyday. I don't feel my game has improved for the time I've put in. There was 3 of us that took the lesson.One guy decided it wasn't for him. The other guy tried it for a bit,and gave up on it.Like I said I tried it for over 2 months with really no results.I'm not bashing anyone,take it for what its worth.
 
chas1022 said:
... Like I said I tried it for over 2 months with really no results. ... .
Without embarassing anyone, can you describe in general what sort of thing didn't work for you?
 
jessiedoll said:
I'm not sure, but it sounds like he's talking about Scott "West Coast Swing" Lee.

This guy could sell an ice cube to an Eskimo. I know of many players who were disgusted with their experience with Scott, but are reluctant to post here due to his pull with AZ. Fast Larry tried to disagree with him a few times and now he's banned.


Yet another example of FL's desire for a "civil discussion."
 
jessiedoll said:
I know of many players who were disgusted with their experience with Scott, but are reluctant to post here due to his pull with AZ. Fast Larry tried to disagree with him a few times and now he's banned.

Well, that's interesting, as my site clearly states that I will not accept a lesson fee from anyone who is not completely satisfied. I guess those "many players who were disgusted" should come forward...I certainly have nothing to hide. This type of practice works for almost all players. If not, it is likely due to practicing incorrectly, or stroke flaws creeping unnoticed, back into their stroke. BTW, I have zero "pull" here on AzB, or anywhere else Larry (or Larry's shill...whoever you are).:rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
oceanweb said:
I recommend that all those players take lessons from Scott Lee.

No way! Each of those players is like you...s/he decided for himself what methods of instruction are best for him. That's my point...each is different.

I had guys telling me how I "should" stroke, when they wouldn't even listen to what my goals are, where in my process of learning I am, and these guys were insisting that I do it the "right" way. All without a clue as to what I want!:eek: How could they possibly know HOW I should shoot, without first knowing WHAT I want from my shot? Those, I dismiss as trouble-makers, and put their knowledge (some good, btw) farther down my list.

Side note: Scott is NOT perfect and as I watched the video, I remembered that some of his advice wasn't right for me and I even question the validity of it. I know some of that because I don't rely on just Scott for knowledge, but also have watched videos, read over 30 books, countless articles, other lessons, etc. etc.

I'm guessing we're on the same page here, just expressing it diffferently.;)

Jeff Livingston
 
chas1022 said:
I think some people need thicker skins. Some people advertise on here.Thats fine. Some people have given good advice for free. Like I said I use all 3 learning methods(video,books,instructor). I use a local instructor now to work with about once a month or every other month. I took a lesson from a instructor that advertises on here. I 've been using what he told me for about two months almost everyday. I don't feel my game has improved for the time I've put in. There was 3 of us that took the lesson.One guy decided it wasn't for him. The other guy tried it for a bit,and gave up on it.Like I said I tried it for over 2 months with really no results.I'm not bashing anyone,take it for what its worth.

If you decide to take lessons again, see it there's an "Advanced" or "Master" BCA instructor in your area. There are some who have been teaching for years (including your instructor) that have still failed to progress past the "Certifed" level.

There's a list below:

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/instruction/BCA_Instructors_Active.htm

Hope this helps.
Jessiedoll.
 
jessiedoll said:
If you decide to take lessons again, see it there's an "Advanced" or "Master" BCA instructor in your area. There are some who have been teaching for years (including your instructor) that have still failed to progress past the "Certifed" level.

There's a list below:

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/instruction/BCA_Instructors_Active.htm

Hope this helps.
Jessiedoll.


Jessiedoll

I have never been certified and never have aspired to be certified by any organization. However, my instruction has produced several champions. Go figure. :eek:

I have had the opportunity to watch Scott Lee teach his students and he is one of the best there is in the world at what he does. His classes are conducted professionally and his knowledge of the game is superb.

The best way to evaluate an instructor is by the quality and progress of his/her students as a result of their instruction, not by a certificate.
 
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