W/FS Rules

jtaylor996

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are plug-ins, settings, and "thread rules" that can be set in place with vBulletin.

If it were set up like the other forums that I frequent, which have ZERO problems, it would be like this:

W/FS
- Cues
- Cases
- Accessories
- DVD's, Apparel, Misc.
- Cuemakers (Tools, Building Materials, Etc..)

In each subforum, you can only create one thread every 12 hours and can only bump once every 48 hours. It's not a written or spoken rule, it's a systematic rule that absolutely will not allow you to post unless 48 hours has past. The way it works is the thread is limited to the OP posting only. You want to know more info? Use private messages.

I still think this discourages honest asking and answering of questions. I would only modify this to make it so these boards sort by thread start date, and not last post date. That will completely stop bumped threads from moving to the top.

Edit: You can try this yourself right now: just go to the bottom of the W/FS page, and select sort by thread start date. Now you don't see any bumps screwing things up.
 
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cueaddicts

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Nice cue bumps still happening. And why can't people...especially the dealers, just list all their wares in ONE ad?! No wonder the 'little' guy can't get any exposure. Just about done with the disparity on AZB.


The rules following, or lack of it, is a problem yes. The biggest problem is the market itself....crap-tons of product (cues, cases, etc) and an ever-shrinking market that can't absorb it all. Now there are all these new 'dealers' popping up every so often. If they are crazy enough to want to be a part of this, I say the more power to them. lol :D

It's not a "little guy" vs "dealer" thing that's the problem. If you look at legitimate dealers, those are not the ones flooding this section with stuff. Just my observation.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are plug-ins, settings, and "thread rules" that can be set in place with vBulletin.

If it were set up like the other forums that I frequent, which have ZERO problems, it would be like this:

W/FS
- Cues
- Cases
- Accessories
- DVD's, Apparel, Misc.
- Cuemakers (Tools, Building Materials, Etc..)

In each subforum, you can only create one thread every 12 hours and can only bump once every 48 hours. It's not a written or spoken rule, it's a systematic rule that absolutely will not allow you to post unless 48 hours has past. The way it works is the thread is limited to the OP posting only. You want to know more info? Use private messages.

This is the only way this issue will EVER be improved. Things have to be controlled from a system level. True of almost anything.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I still think this discourages honest asking and answering of questions. I would only modify this to make it so these boards sort by thread start date, and not last post date. That will completely stop bumped threads from moving to the top.

Edit: You can try this yourself right now: just go to the bottom of the W/FS page, and select sort by thread start date. Now you don't see any bumps screwing things up.

Discourages honest asking and answering? Who cares! Do it with a PM!
Yes, for your information, I know there is a way to sort threads at the bottom of the page. I know this, but all the knuckleheads out there in space, don't.

The rules following, or lack of it, is a problem yes.

It's not a "little guy" vs "dealer" thing that's the problem. If you look at legitimate dealers, those are not the ones flooding this section with stuff. Just my observation.

I agree, the lack of following the rules and lack of enforcement is the problem.
However, banning anyone that doesn't follow the rules isn't the answer.
You have to make the rules idiot proof and actual functions of vbulletin.


To add to my suggestion earlier. Vbulletin also allows prefixes to be added to thread titles, such as: WTS, WTB, & WTT (highlighted in different colors).
 

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cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
There are plug-ins, settings, and "thread rules" that can be set in place with vBulletin.

If it were set up like the other forums that I frequent, which have ZERO problems, it would be like this:

W/FS
- Cues
- Cases
- Accessories
- DVD's, Apparel, Misc.
- Cuemakers (Tools, Building Materials, Etc..)

In each subforum, you can only create one thread every 12 hours and can only bump once every 48 hours. It's not a written or spoken rule, it's a systematic rule that absolutely will not allow you to post unless 48 hours has past. The way it works is the thread is limited to the OP posting only. You want to know more info? Use private messages.


I've been against the sub-forums, because I noticed going into some of the large gun / knife forums, that they were kind of a mess.
It was more tedious to find certain things, and the activity seemed pretty dead compared to AZ, and AZ has a much smaller active membership.
Many people on AZ can't even seem to post a new thread in the right section, so I've been against making it more complicated.
The gun forums require an ISP email address to join, and gold membership to sell.
On AZ, someone could terrorize 5-sub-forums at the same time, and keep returning under different aliases.
I doubt some jerk could keep returning with multiple usernames at usualsuspects.com or any large forum that is numero uno in what they represent.
But then again, I thought the WFS at usualsuspects.com was sort of boring.

I keep leaning toward the sub-forum idea, but experience tells me that it could make things worse.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been against the sub-forums, because I noticed going into some of the large gun / knife forums, that they were kind of a mess.
It was more tedious to find certain things, and the activity seemed pretty dead compared to AZ, and AZ has a much smaller active membership.
Many people on AZ can't even seem to post a new thread in the right section, so I've been against making it more complicated.
The gun forums require an ISP email address to join, and gold membership to sell.
On AZ, someone could terrorize 5-sub-forums at the same time, and keep returning under different aliases.
I doubt some jerk could keep returning with multiple usernames at usualsuspects.com or any large forum that is numero uno in what they represent.
But then again, I thought the WFS at usualsuspects.com was sort of boring.

I keep leaning toward the sub-forum idea, but experience tells me that it could make things worse.

Some forums get dull, some thrive. I've found that the subforums tend to die, when the overall forum becomes dull.
 

jtaylor996

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Discourages honest asking and answering? Who cares! Do it with a PM!
Yes, for your information, I know there is a way to sort threads at the bottom of the page. I know this, but all the knuckleheads out there in space, don't.

Pm space is limited. I don't want to use it unless I have to. It doesn't make any sense for 30 different people to have to send the same damn PM to somebody because they didn't list a price in the ad.

I'm suggesting changing the DEFAULT sort order, so that the people who don't know how to change it will see it that way. This will be the vast majority of people out there.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pm space is limited. I don't want to use it unless I have to. It doesn't make any sense for 30 different people to have to send the same damn PM to somebody because they didn't list a price in the ad.

I'm suggesting changing the DEFAULT sort order, so that the people who don't know how to change it will see it that way. This will be the vast majority of people out there.

Get a gold membership.
 

jtaylor996

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Get a gold membership.

I'm a software engineer. That's the most retarded solution to inefficient communications possible. If you post 20 ads, you have no way to organize responses with the PM system, etc... Then, it costs money, or you just end up deleting stuff you should really be keeping around as a record in case something goes wrong with a sale.

That's what THREADs are for, keeping crap in one place. If you change the default sort order so that bumping doesn't bring a thread to the top on reply, then trying shoe-horn PMs in to buyer/seller communications is completely unnecessary. One post answers the same question for everybody, your PM box is uncluttered with only the actual important sale stuff, and it doesn't cost anybody anything.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a software engineer. That's the most retarded solution to inefficient communications possible. If you post 20 ads, you have no way to organize responses with the PM system, etc... Then, it costs money, or you just end up deleting stuff you should really be keeping around as a record in case something goes wrong with a sale.

That's what THREADs are for, keeping crap in one place. If you change the default sort order so that bumping doesn't bring a thread to the top on reply, then trying shoe-horn PMs in to buyer/seller communications is completely unnecessary. One post answers the same question for everybody, your PM box is uncluttered with only the actual important sale stuff, and it doesn't cost anybody anything.

Then as a software engineer, you should know that backing up everything is the possible solution when problems arise. If there is a PM you wish to keep, take a screenshot of it and save it to a hard drive.

Your solution exterminates "bumping" altogether. That is not a viable solution.

Jim Baxter, for example, has threads older than dirt and contain products that he has limited supply of and possibly will have more in the future. He bumps these threads consistently within the rules. Would you prefer him to create a new thread every week to advertise the same product over and over and over?
 

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
The rules following, or lack of it, is a problem yes. The biggest problem is the market itself....crap-tons of product (cues, cases, etc) and an ever-shrinking market that can't absorb it all. Now there are all these new 'dealers' popping up every so often. If they are crazy enough to want to be a part of this, I say the more power to them. lol :D

It's not a "little guy" vs "dealer" thing that's the problem. If you look at legitimate dealers, those are not the ones flooding this section with stuff. Just my observation.

My point being that if there are multiple items for sale from ANY individual, they should all be confined within one FS thread. It cuts down on the clutter, and provides a mini 'storefront' for both buyer AND seller. There are a few here that do group their listings into a single thread, and they do not seem to be affected by that practice. But when you have a few individuals, some long time members, listing four or more cues, all in their own threads...it doesn't take much for those who are selling single items, or who are occasional sellers, to have their threads dropped back to page 6,7,8 within a matter of mere hours. Often, those same sellers are the ones getting the 'shill' bumps as well or prematurely bump their own threads by from a few minutes to a few hours of the actual 48 hours from the initial posting or bump.

As to cues being 'overpriced'...that is a bit subjective. Yes, there have been instances where an item has been grossly overpriced...and it will typically languish as a result. The rest, may not be so much as overpriced, but have a bit of 'wiggle' room built in for haggling. Or, they may be priced within reason, only to have those 'flippers' who call themselves 'dealers' want to steal the item, only to re-list it at a higher price shortly thereafter, because they have built a small following that they can sell to because they have a higher iTrader rating...because there are still those here that think that iTrader ratings are gospel, which they are not. How many posts have we seen where someone felt wronged by a seller, whom they purchased from based solely on the seller's iTrader? Searching the seller's past transactions via posts tells a truer tale than the iTrader, IMHO.

Ugly cues? Eye of the beholder. I have seen some pretty ugly cues from Tim Scruggs, for instance, that still manage to sell, even though I wouldn't spend a penny on them. Hate stained forearms, shoot me. Once upon a time, Bocote cues were a hard sell...until people began to realize just how great a player bocote cues could be and how stable a wood it is...and makers began seeking out more figured examples of it. Now, bocote is not a 'deal breaker' that it once was. Personally, I still cannot get past the utter butt-ugliness of purpleheart and bocote together...but others love it. Go figure. Brazilian tulipwood didn't used to be a tough sell at all, but now...it's the new bocote. Which is pretty stupid, seeing as it is one of the last true rosewoods (dalbergia genus) still available to purchase and import...although that will be changing fairly shortly, and will go the way of Gabon ebony, Brazilian and Madagascar rosewoods. Prices are already up for it. Finding the darker tulip is nigh on to impossible anymore...most of it is light and peachy. Another great playing wood that is ignored. It is what it is.

The continuation of the illegal bumps is still a big problem. I have quit reporting them, because when it comes to certain members, it doesn't matter...so what's the point any more? Make the penalties more severe for the trangressions, especially on members who know better, and the behavior will cease. It's all about fairness across the board...no matter who you are.

Oh, and before I forget...the newest tactic: Links to FS threads as a member's sig line. If people spent half as much time doing right, as they do trying to get over, in life in general, the world would be a much better place.
 
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Worminator

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My point being that if there are multiple items for sale from ANY individual, they should all be confined within one FS thread.

Well... there are no "rules" that state one has to combine threads, so that is just an opinion. Even if there were rules, they probably would not be enforced.

Until there are significant changes made... it is what it is... everyone can complain all they want (which many do), but it will be to no avail.
 

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why don't we just auto sort by date of thread start, not last post? Then bumping is completely irrelevant as it won't bring the post to the top.

And then, buyers can ask questions, and sellers can respond, and nobody gets pissed off.

To handle the dealers, make a rule that you can only post a new thread once every 24 hours to W/FS. That way they'll have to group everything together.

This seems like a really good idea to me, and easy to implement!
 

jtaylor996

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Then as a software engineer, you should know that backing up everything is the possible solution when problems arise. If there is a PM you wish to keep, take a screenshot of it and save it to a hard drive.

Your solution exterminates "bumping" altogether. That is not a viable solution.

Jim Baxter, for example, has threads older than dirt and contain products that he has limited supply of and possibly will have more in the future. He bumps these threads consistently within the rules. Would you prefer him to create a new thread every week to advertise the same product over and over and over?

Yes, exactly that. That's how most forums handle it, repost once a week at most.

Bumping deserves to be exterminated. It serves no useful purpose at all.
 

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Then as a software engineer, you should know that backing up everything is the possible solution when problems arise. If there is a PM you wish to keep, take a screenshot of it and save it to a hard drive.

Your solution exterminates "bumping" altogether. That is not a viable solution.

Jim Baxter, for example, has threads older than dirt and contain products that he has limited supply of and possibly will have more in the future. He bumps these threads consistently within the rules. Would you prefer him to create a new thread every week to advertise the same product over and over and over?

There's not much difference between an old bumped thread and a new thread. Making some sellers switch from bumping to posting (within the once/day rule) seems like a small price to pay to get rid of all the noise from "monster player" and GLWS bumps.
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nice cue bumps still happening. And why can't people...especially the dealers, just list all their wares in ONE ad?! No wonder the 'little' guy can't get any exposure. Just about done with the disparity on AZB.

Has this affected you are do you just have your panties in a bunch?

Only thing worse than the bumping is the complaining from those who don't have a dog in the fight.

I tire of the folks that think "reporting to moderator" is a positive. Lighten up sister its just a pool forum. :rolleyes:

Ken thinks "ridewiththewind" has been a tattletale since kindergarden.

Ken
 

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
Has this affected you are do you just have your panties in a bunch?

Only thing worse than the bumping is the complaining from those who don't have a dog in the fight.

I tire of the folks that think "reporting to moderator" is a positive. Lighten up sister its just a pool forum. :rolleyes:

Ken thinks "ridewiththewind" has been a tattletale since kindergarden.

Ken

Another troll...another waste of bandwidth. Do you have anything constructive to add besides coming after me? Perhaps before posting and not only looking, but proving you're the fool, you should have done a simple search to see if I have a dog in this fight or not...not that it should matter. BTW...thanks for being one of the 'shill' bumpers who can't seem to follow the rules....good on ya! Bonehead.
 

kvinbrwr

Skee Ball Monster Playa
Gold Member
Well... there are no "rules" that state one has to combine threads, so that is just an opinion. Even if there were rules, they probably would not be enforced.

Until there are significant changes made... it is what it is... everyone can complain all they want (which many do), but it will be to no avail.

Jamie

Yes, ever since we became rule-reliant in the FS Forum there has been a bunch of people complaining because the mods are not enforcing their personal interpretations of the rules. Even the mods contradicted each other immediately upon posting them.

You've had some good ideas for fixes.

I personally like splitting the forum up into price ranges, that way the guys posting cues there is really nothing to post about will be safe from guys posting drools over monster cues and bumping everything down. Plus the guys posting big cues won't have to get bumped away by some 10 year old predator with dings. Win-win.

Kevin
 
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ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
Ken thinks "ridewiththewind" has been a tattletale since kindergarden.

Ken

Wrong again, Bonehead! However, a great man once said that if you see something that is wrong, and do nothing about it, you become part of the problem, not part of the solution. You've made it clear through not only your attitude, but your actions, which side of that you fall on. Now, step off!
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wrong again, Bonehead! However, a great man once said that if you see something that is wrong, and do nothing about it, you become part of the problem, not part of the solution. You've made it clear through not only your attitude, but your actions, which side of that you fall on. Now, step off!

Ignore him. He's one of the guys abusing the system.

Great cue Mike.

I have almost the exact same cue with the exact same veneer colors. The only thing that mine has is a row of about 1/4 inch boxes around the bottom. The thing I find weird is the boxes are not in the center of the bottom of the cue.

Mine has (2) Gus shafts, and my other one as Barry shafts. I honestly think the Gus shafts are superior to the ones Barry made.

I bet that Gus shaft is really nice. Its great that this cue comes with both, IMO, you really have the best of both worlds there.

Good luck with sale. Whoever buys this will never let it go. I know I wouldn't.

Its just that nice.

Ken
 
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