Walter Lindrum - Best Cueist Ever? - Video

Colin Colenso

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a 6 1/2 minute video of the world's best ever English Billiards player, Walter Lindrum.

English billiards was the premier game in the UK and the commonwealth before snooker overtook it in popularity. It is played on the same tables.

Walter dominated the sport completely for years, and is often suggested (especially by Australians) as the greatest cueist of all time. Now you can take a look and see how and what he actually played.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8722542367183127601&hl=en

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
This is a 6 1/2 minute video of the world's best ever English Billiards player, Walter Lindrum.

English billiards was the premier game in the UK and the commonwealth before snooker overtook it in popularity. It is played on the same tables.

Walter dominated the sport completely for years, and is often suggested (especially by Australians) as the greatest cueist of all time. Now you can take a look and see how and what he actually played.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8722542367183127601&hl=en

Colin
Click to expand...

I just get a picture. It won't play!
 
I watched it twice and still can't make out the rules?!, but that guys is frigging AMAZING. He just flows around that table!

Gerry
 
Awfully good

That was good as the corn in Kansas. What was even more brutal was they kept changing the rules to try and stop the guy (couldnt keep shooting in the same pocket, etc.).

the Beard
 
Lindrum certainly belongs on the short list for greatest cueist ever. My list:

Walter Lindrum
Ralph Greenleaf
Jimmy M
Willie Mosconi
Mike Sigel
TheOne
Efren Reyes
Joe Davis
Steve Hendry
Williebetmore
Raymond Ceulemans
Thorbjorn Blomdahl
 
Hi Colin,

How are you? Are you back on a high speed connection now?

Chris
 
That video was EDITTED! That was NOT a 100-ball run. It was a run of only 89! It is obvious where the video was spliced. You can see that the white CB is in two very different places between points 89 and 92. Lindrum must have missed that almost straight-in pot (or got way out of position) the first time around. :eek:

I just thought that was kinda funny. Nevertheless, it is an extremely impressive video that probably only shows the tip of the iceberg of Lindrum's talent. Still amazes me how these English billiard players scratch the CB with such accuracy.

Nice to see you posting again Calc.

EDIT: Actually, looking at it the second time...there's a chance the video wasn't editted. I was looking at the relation between the CB and the letters on the screen, but it appears the camera has shifted such that the letters wound up in a different place. Who knows? :o

EDIT2: Yup, that video was definitely editted. Initially, the red ball was right above the "H" in "PATHE" and CB above the first "E" in "PREVIEW". After the splice, the red ball was still above the "H" but the CB was a ball's width left of the "E". The CB was definitely much closer to the red ball. Too bad they didn't have Lucas' ILM back then. :)
 
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hondo said:
I just get a picture. It won't play!
Click to expand...
There should be a play button on the extreme lower-left part of your browser window. I also thought it was just a still picture until I found that play button tucked down there.
 
TATE said:
Hi Colin,

How are you? Are you back on a high speed connection now?

Chris
Click to expand...
Hi Chris,
I've had the high speed connection for a while but have been a bit busy to keep active on this forum.

For those who don't know, I moved from China back to my homeland of Australia about 2 months ago.

Loving the kinder, warmer weather and open spaces here, enjoying playing some snooker and english 8-ball with some old mates and the regular game of golf.

Still waiting to set up my US table but missing it a lot.

Good to see my old friends responding attentively :)

To Hondo, not sure why it didn't play for you. Maybe you need shockwave?

Anyway, here is another break from Walter made in 1957, probably after his best years. A 200 break made with some commentary. Video quality is not great, but you can grasp the incredible control he has over the balls, and the ease with which he plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZsj4BZ8BWU

Colin
 
Last edited:
jsp said:
That video was EDITTED! That was NOT a 100-ball run. It was a run of only 89! It is obvious where the video was spliced. ...
Click to expand...
It just looks like they had to change film to me. I don't think that was a shot Lindrum would have missed.

There is a great biography of Lindrum by Andrew Ricketts. As I recall, in the 1933 championship, Lindrum had to give a 7000-point start to the other players. This was in a format where the typical score was 20000 points. He won that championship.

English Billiards is one of the great cue games, and you can learn a lot from it. I was fortunate that when I was starting to learn, there were two snooker tables available and several people who knew how to play.
 
jsp said:
That video was EDITTED! That was NOT a 100-ball run. It was a run of only 89! It is obvious where the video was spliced. You can see that the white CB is in two very different places between points 89 and 92. Lindrum must have missed that almost straight-in pot (or got way out of position) the first time around. :eek:

I just thought that was kinda funny. Nevertheless, it is an extremely impressive video that probably only shows the tip of the iceberg of Lindrum's talent. Still amazes me how these English billiard players scratch the CB with such accuracy.

Nice to see you posting again Calc.

EDIT: Actually, looking at it the second time...there's a chance the video wasn't editted. I was looking at the relation between the CB and the letters on the screen, but it appears the camera has shifted such that the letters wound up in a different place. Who knows? :o

EDIT2: Yup, that video was definitely editted. Initially, the red ball was right above the "H" in "PATHE" and CB above the first "E" in "PREVIEW". After the splice, the red ball was still above the "H" but the CB was a ball's width left of the "E". The CB was definitely much closer to the red ball. Too bad they didn't have Lucas' ILM back then. :)
Click to expand...

I would like to see the world's best English Billiard's player try to play some scratch pool with Evgeny Stalev for a large sum. My bet- Stalev wins.
 
The game looked pretty straightforward to me. A combination of straight rail billiards, and simple pocket shots. What I did like was Lindrum's stroke. He got through the cueball on every shot, never puching the ball once.

Doc
 
gulfportdoc said:
The game looked pretty straightforward to me. A combination of straight rail billiards, and simple pocket shots. What I did like was Lindrum's stroke. He got through the cueball on every shot, never puching the ball once.

Doc
Click to expand...

I played it as a kid in Australia. If I remember rightly its made up of cannons, in-offs and pots.
A cannon is where you hit the red and the other white with the cueball.
An in-off is like an intentional scratch. You hit an object ball and the cueball goes into a pocket.
A pot is where the object ball is pocketed.
Like straight pool, there was a loss of interest over the years. snooker and 8-ball became the popular games to play. snooker on the big table. 8-ball on the small table.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It just looks like they had to change film to me. I don't think that was a shot Lindrum would have missed.

There is a great biography of Lindrum by Andrew Ricketts. As I recall, in the 1933 championship, Lindrum had to give a 7000-point start to the other players. This was in a format where the typical score was 20000 points. He won that championship.

English Billiards is one of the great cue games, and you can learn a lot from it. I was fortunate that when I was starting to learn, there were two snooker tables available and several people who knew how to play.
Click to expand...

Here is a detailed article (~6-7 pages) about Walter Lindrum for those wanting to know a bit more about English Billiards and the impact he had on the game.

http://www.eaba.co.uk/articles/walterLindrum/walterLindrumProfile.html

Colin
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I would like to see the world's best English Billiard's player try to play some scratch pool with Evgeny Stalev for a large sum. My bet- Stalev wins.
Click to expand...

If they played on a snooker table with snooker balls Stalev would get his ass handed to him. Switch to Pyramid cues and balls and Stalev probably wins.

Put them on neutral ground like a 5x10 American Snooker table with straight corners and tight pockets using 2.25 inch balls and it's probably a tossup with Stalev the slight favorite since he has been playing with that equipment.
 
sjm said:
Lindrum certainly belongs on the short list for greatest cueist ever. My list:

Walter Lindrum
Ralph Greenleaf
Jimmy M
Willie Mosconi
Mike Sigel
TheOne
Efren Reyes
Joe Davis
Steve Hendry
Williebetmore
Raymond Ceulemans
Thorbjorn Blomdahl
Click to expand...

You forgot about Travis Trotter :cool:
 
I would suggest to anyone to try and do the rail nurse just get an appreciation of how difficult it is. The rial nurse is what Lindrum did at the end of the You Tube video. Get all three balls close to each other on a rail and just tap them as you work them down the rail. I once saw Raymond Cuelemans do it in exhibition and it's incredible. Boring to watch but great once you understand that it's not easy to do.

One thing struck me about this video is Lindrum's patterns. He had them down so cold with no hesitation at all. Simply amazing. BUT, and there is always one of those, how would he have fared in a game that didn't lend itself to such set patterns.

In english billiards you have many options to score. The in-off (scratch) the carom, and pocketing a ball. So with three options to score it lends itself to patterns being created that incorporate those three options with regularity. As Walter Lindrum himself explained on the You Tube video.

In 9-ball and Snooker there is only one way to score. Pocket a ball in the hole to keep going. Does anyone have any idea whether Walter Lindrum ever played competitive snooker and if so, how did he do?

I had a biography and I can't recall there being anything in it that said he did. I am glad I got to watch this.

Thanks Colin!!!!
 
John Barton said:
I would suggest to anyone to try and do the rail nurse just get an appreciation of how difficult it is. The rial nurse is what Lindrum did at the end of the You Tube video. Get all three balls close to each other on a rail and just tap them as you work them down the rail. I once saw Raymond Cuelemans do it in exhibition and it's incredible. Boring to watch but great once you understand that it's not easy to do.

One thing struck me about this video is Lindrum's patterns. He had them down so cold with no hesitation at all. Simply amazing. BUT, and there is always one of those, how would he have fared in a game that didn't lend itself to such set patterns.

In english billiards you have many options to score. The in-off (scratch) the carom, and pocketing a ball. So with three options to score it lends itself to patterns being created that incorporate those three options with regularity. As Walter Lindrum himself explained on the You Tube video.

In 9-ball and Snooker there is only one way to score. Pocket a ball in the hole to keep going. Does anyone have any idea whether Walter Lindrum ever played competitive snooker and if so, how did he do?

I had a biography and I can't recall there being anything in it that said he did. I am glad I got to watch this.

Thanks Colin!!!!
Click to expand...
John,
I'm not sure that Walter played much snooker at all, though it is rumoured he was a more talented at the game than his nephew Horace Lindrum who was probably on par with the great Joe Davis in the early days of the development of snooker.

In his earlier billiard days Walter actually specialized in red ball play, which required almost primarily potting and scratching off the red. He could regularly make 100+ scoring shots in a row without a miss using that method, so certainly, he must have had advanced potting and positional skills.

I think he was a guy who could just push himself to be better than others at whatever he tried on the table, so I reckon he could have been at or near the top in any cue sport he took on.

It's worth noting that the best billiard players today, and for the last 30 years are not close to what Walter was achieving back in the 30's. He was averaging over 200 per visit (that's about 80-100 actual scoring shots) per miss, over periods of 2 weeks play at his peak.

Most decent pool players, who are new to billiards, would do well to average 2 scoring shots per miss by my estimation.

btw: Scratch pool was mentioned earlier: Some billiard players specialize more in this area than others. I've seen a few guys who are brilliant in this aspect of the game. The long jenny is a shot to behold. It is a full length up the long rail scratch played with a lot of english. Some guys can make these at very high percentages.

Colin
 
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