Warning: BilliardPlace.com

[manwon]

Steve did talk to person. Marina. She probably told him exactly what he needed to do. Send the light back. We don't know. Steve never said what they said.

6 unanswered calls sounds like an exageration to me. Great dramatic value though.

Craig- what you're saying is, whatever the rules are for a company. If you don't like them. Go ahead and make a purchase and become a martyr for the cause to change their policies?

Steve says he wants his problem solved, but instead has chosen to try to make them change their policy to suit him. Maybe Marina was new and he should've asked to speak to a supervisor.

Bottom line. We don't have enough info to pass judgement on this situation.

Ray

Craig- what you're saying is, whatever the rules are for a company. If you don't like them. Go ahead and make a purchase and become a martyr for the cause to change their policies?

No I am not saying that at all, in fact earlier in this thread I stated the buyer must beware. Now, I do not know Steve in anyway shape of form, but it appears Ray that you must know him to come to all the conclusions you have come to about him.

Now either you have more of a stake in this than your saying or you enjoy controversy and are trying to stir the pot. But Ray, look around your the only one who has come to the conclusions you have from Steve's comments, and you know what they say about that don't you.:grin:

 

[cuejoey]

I don't want to get into the middle of this, but I can wholeheartedly recommend an alternative lighting vendor: Greg at billiardswarehouse.com.

Greg recently worked with me on the initial purchase, offered to immediately send for a pickup when I got a box with the wrong shades and subsequently made a credit to my account since I decided to keep the slightly less expensive fixture.

All this was accomplished with excellent communication and no fuss or high drama.

Excellent customer service is not all that hard if you are committed to it.

A great company to deal with..:thumbup:

 

[Bigtruck]

Contrar

Craig- what you're saying is, whatever the rules are for a company. If you don't like them. Go ahead and make a purchase and become a martyr for the cause to change their policies?

No I am not saying that at all, in fact earlier in this thread I stated the buyer must beware. Now, I do not know Steve in anyway shape of form, but it appears Ray that you must know him to come to all the conclusions you have come to about him.

Now either you have more of a stake in this than your saying or you enjoy controversy and are trying to stir the pot. But Ray, look around your the only one who has come to the conclusions you have from Steve's comments, and you know what they say about that don't you.:grin:

Craig,

You're the one joining the lynch mob mentality. I have not drawn any conclusions. It's not possible knowing so little. That's my point from the beginning. Why do you keep trying to attack me for urging people not to jump to conclusions.

You know what they say about people who jump to conclusions. They often end up with egg on face.

I don't know Steve or anyone with Billiardplace.com. I've never heard of either before this thread. You sure seem anxious to hang them though. I'm starting to wonder what your stake is here.

Ray

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

This Is Simple.....

The Seller Should Have Responded To The Buyers Phone Calls.

The Buyer Should Not Expect Any Type Of Refund Until The Light Is Returned To The Seller. (i Have 2 Retail Establishments, And Wouldn't Refund Anyone, Any Amount, Until I Had The Defective Item In My Posession)

The Buyer Is Responsible For Shipping The Light Back At His Exspense. (part Of Buying On The Internet At A Discount, Instead Of Buying Locally At A Brick And Mortar Store)

I Understand Why The Buyer Is Reluctant To Ship The Light Back Without Contact From The Seller.

There Is No Way The Manufacturer Of The Light Credited The Seller Before They Got The Light Back. (wholesale Returns Don't Work That Way)

Resolution...... Don't Deal With The Seller Again, And Send The Light To The Manufacturer For A Replacement/repair. It's The Manufacturers' Responsibility To Replace/repair It, Not The Retailers.

 

[GordonRamsay]

We filed the complaint with their web host on March 9.
They notified Billiard Place who apparently ignored the notice (see below).
We followed up on Mar 13 and the web host (AIT) took down their website immediately.
About a week later they were back up and had removed the material to which we claimed infringement.

From: Scott Gartland
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:20 AM
To: Kevin Foster; Daniel Kuster
Cc: Doriana Faris
Subject: FW: Alleged Copyright Infringement Notice

Gentlemen, in light of the below notice, and particularly that there has been no response to it,
please block or disable the billiardplace.com website today.

Thank you,
Scott Gartland
Assistant General Counsel
AIT, Inc.

Wait... why are you going after them for Copyright infringement?

 

[manwon]

Craig,

You're the one joining the lynch mob mentality. I have not drawn any conclusions. It's not possible knowing so little. That's my point from the beginning. Why do you keep trying to attack me for urging people not to jump to conclusions.

You know what they say about people who jump to conclusions. They often end up with egg on face.

I don't know Steve or anyone with Billiardplace.com. I've never heard of either before this thread. You sure seem anxious to hang them though. I'm starting to wonder what your stake is here.

Ray

Ray, from Steve first post you have said numerous times that he is either not telling the whole story or that you think he is exaggerating. So if it is not possible knowing so little how can you do that. I think before you jump to conclusions about Steve with knowing so Little about the whole situation that you may be jumping to conclusions, about Steve. I mean, I do not know him and I know nothing else about this entire affair except what is in this thread, you have said the same thing, but for some reason you choose to question his word.

Now, I have not attacked you, I just do not agree with the manner you have treated Steve, when like you have said so little is known at this point.

No disrespect intended, just my opinion, have a great night!

 

[Bigtruck]

Manwon

Ray, from Steve first post you have said numerous times that he is either not telling the whole story or that you think he is exaggerating. So if it is not possible knowing so little how can you do that. I think before you jump to conclusions about Steve with knowing so Little about the whole situation that you may be jumping to conclusions, about Steve. I mean, I do not know him and I know nothing else about this entire affair except what is in this thread, you have said the same thing, but for some reason you choose to question his word.

Now, I have not attacked you, I just do not agree with the manner you have treated Steve, when like you have said so little is known at this point.

No disrespect intended, just my opinion, have a great night!

Steve is not giving ALL the details. PERIOD.

What if Steve made 6 calls WED before Thanksgiving? Then what is your response? (WE DON'T KNOW WHEN HE MADE THEM)

ANYONE that wants to start a thread bashing someone or some company, should give ALL the details.

I know......some people don't care what the circumstances are, no call back is no call back.Period.

This is why SO many people are led blindly. Too few questions!

I am not a knee jerk person who can be led with partial info about a situation. I didn't think you were either.

Fast N Loose summed it up in a nutshell.

Still without knowing ALL the info about the transaction, I will still consider Billiardplace.com as a honest company. Even the Copyright situation with the web-site provider. We know nothing about what happened.

I mean no dis-respect towards Steve. Steve may even be spot on with his complaint. But when you decide to post it in the largest pool forum on the planet, you better post up the details.

I HATE COMPANIES THAT HAVE POOR BUSINESS PRACTICES, But I'm also thorough before I add one to the DO NOT BUY list.

Thanks for reading!!

Ray

 

[recanizegame]

lol...........

 

[UrackmIcrackm]

Ray, from Steve first post you have said numerous times that he is either not telling the whole story or that you think he is exaggerating. So if it is not possible knowing so little how can you do that.

<snip>

Now, I have not attacked you, I just do not agree with the manner you have treated Steve, when like you have said so little is known at this point.

No disrespect intended, just my opinion, have a great night!

IMO from the first post Ray has only asked for specifics of the transaction. The answers, when given, were quite vague & all of the questions asked have not been answered.

After reading your post, I went back and re-read Ray's posts to see if I could understand where you're coming from in your posts. I personally disagree with your assessment of Ray's posts. Yes, he did mention that Steve wasn't telling the whole story. However, Ray didn't say it in an accusatory way, he stated it, and it's the truth so how is that derogatory towards Steve? Due to Steve only giving vague answers and not the whole story, everyone is left to come up with their own conclusions. Ray's conclusion was that 6 unanswered phone calls sounds like an exaggeration to him (Ray). He did not accuse Steve of exaggerating.

When people are quick to join the lynch mob mentality, they're also quick to forget to ask the facts, consider the facts, or even comprehend the facts.

Let's put this into perspective. If Steve were to take this company to court, what do you think he's going to need in order to win? Do you think he can win it by simply saying what he's posted here? (if you were on the jury then I guess so) Or, would he have to provide the documentation that Ray has been requesting?

There's a lot of examples right here on AZ for why people should stop taking one person's side at face value & wait to get all of the info. Wasn't all that long ago Ronnie Wiseman supposedly stiffed some guy. People were ready to hang Ronnie. Then somewhere on page 20 something, the OP comes back & says "he was wrong", Ronnie was actually innocent of the charges he claimed against Ronnie.

I remember some guy in the FS section complaining about another member that he bought something from that didn't communicate with him. Enter the mob scene until one person decided to ask, "how long after your email did you wait for a response before you came on here?" and the guys answer was something stupid like 3 hours!

The whole Jasmin vs the WPBA thread recently is another example. All anyone knew was what very little was given in Jasmin's press release. There were 13 pages of people complaining about the WPBA & how Jasmin was wronged and yet not a single person had all the details. Then on the middle of the 13th page, after everyone had crucified the WPBA, Melissa Herndon made the following post.

She did appeal prior to the Hard Rock event and she could have participated in that event since the penalties are put on hold until the appeal is settled. Both Jasmin and her manager were aware of this, but withdrew from the event anyhow.

The thread only made it to a few posts on page 14 and it finally died. Notice what people thought after hearing more details...

Wow, it is a whole different ball game now. Big mistake Jasmin has made with the withdrawal of the recent event. It now defeats the purpose of her appeal. Based on this information and what I read today, Jasmin's only choice is to abide by the WPBA ruling and accept the two game suspension.

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill with your incorrect accusations of Ray's response to Steve and anyone whose not requiring the same info Ray has asked for before condemning this company is only adding to the size of the mountain.

It's extremely difficult for a business to survive in these trying times but what a lot of people don't realize is that these "trying times" is everyday life in the billiard industry. The customer base is small and there's always more companies than there are customers. Every billiard company scrapes by and the last thing we need to do is ruin a struggling company's chance at survival by adding them to your dirt bag list without having all of the facts.

 

[Dartman]

Wait... why are you going after them for Copyright infringement?

Went - as in March 2008.
They copied verbatim some extensive and detailed text from our website.
A few days after we had their site taken down they removed the text and their site was subsequently reinstated.

 

[Dartman]

...The Buyer Is Responsible For Shipping The Light Back At His Exspense. (part Of Buying On The Internet At A Discount, Instead Of Buying Locally At A Brick And Mortar Store) ...

Good overall post. I won't go into Internet vs. B&M discount policies. Regardless of which
one is used one may or may not get a discount.

For arguments sake suppose I buy a cue from you and when I open the carton the tip was
laying loose inside. You would expect me to pay to ship it back for repair?

Maybe our company philosophy is wrong.
Although rare, if we ship something that is defective we send a call tag for the return

 

[Bigtruck]

How bout

Good overall post. I won't go into Internet vs. B&M discount policies. Regardless of which
one is used one may or may not get a discount.

For arguments sake suppose I buy a cue from you and when I open the carton the tip was
laying loose inside. You would expect me to pay to ship it back for repair?

Maybe our company philosophy is wrong.
Although rare, if we ship something that is defective we send a call tag for the return

How about the tip flies off over a month later? And you didn't put it on, you had the cue drop shipped from a distributor.

I have had defective product from a major supplier replaced,no problem. I always paid to ship it back to them and they paid to send a replacement. I thought that was fair. Maybe I should ask for more.

Ray

 

[GordonRamsay]

Went - as in March 2008.
They copied verbatim some extensive and detailed text from our website.
A few days after we had their site taken down they removed the text and their site was subsequently reinstated.

WOW... THEY MUST BE HARDCORE CRIMINALS....

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Good overall post. I won't go into Internet vs. B&M discount policies. Regardless of which
one is used one may or may not get a discount.

For arguments sake suppose I buy a cue from you and when I open the carton the tip was
laying loose inside. You would expect me to pay to ship it back for repair?

Maybe our company philosophy is wrong.
Although rare, if we ship something that is defective we send a call tag for the return

I WASN'T COMPARING B&M DISCOUNTS TO ONLINE DISCOUNTS, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I OFFER MUCH BETTER SERVICE TO MY CUSTOMERS THAN ANY ONLINE RETAILER. NOT BECAUSE I'M BETTER PER SE, BUT BECAUSE OF CONVENIENCE. IF THERE IS AN ISSUE, I'M AROUND THE CORNER TO TAKE CARE OF IT, NOT AROUND THE WORLD, AND I DON'T HAVE A BS "CUSTOMER SUPPORT" LINE THAT IS BEING ANSWERED BY SOMEONE IN INDIA.

BUYING ONLINE IS A SAVINGS GAME.....PEOPLE DON'T SHOP ONLINE THINKING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE THAN THEY WOULD AT A B&M......THEY DO IT FOR SAVINGS. A SAVINGS THAT COMES FROM COMPANIES DROP SHIPPING, AND HAVING NO CARRYING COSTS, AND FROM ONLINE STORES NOT HAVING NEARLY THE OVERHEAD, THAT A PROPERLY STAFFED B&M WILL HAVE. (THERE ARE VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS TO THIS)

IF I SELL A CUE, I MAKE SURE THAT IT IS IN THE SHAPE DESCRIBED BEFORE I BOX/SHIP IT. IF IT ARRIVES IN A DIFFERENT CONDITION, THEN I USE MY SHIPPERS INSURANCE TO COVER IT.

IF IT'S A NEW CUE (NORMALLY DROP SHIPPED FOR PRODUCTION CUES), AND THE DAMAGE/DEFECT WASN'T CAUSED BY ME OR THE SHIPPER, THAN SERVICE WOULD BE HANDLED BY THE MANUFACTURER. EXAMPLE: ALL THOSE CRAPPY CUES THAT MEUCCI DELIVERED FOR YEARS, WERE NOT WARRANTIED BY THE SITES SELLING THE CUES, THEY WERE WARRANTIED BY MEUCCI

D.O.A. IS DIFFERENT, THAN THE CASE BEING DISCUSSED HERE. IN THIS CASE, THE LIGHT WORKED WHEN IT GOT THERE...... AND THEN DEVELOPED A PROBLEM. A PROBLEM THAT IS COVERED BY THE MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY.

IF I SELL AN AMPLIFIER IN MY STEREO SHOP, INSTALL IT, AND IT WORKS FOR SIX MONTHS, AND THEN HAS A FAILURE ISSUE. IT IS SENT BACK TO THE MANUFACTURER(AT THE OWNERS EXSPENSE) TO BE REPAIRED. IT'S NOT REPAIRED BY ME (THE SELLER) BECAUSE I'M NOT THE ONE THAT OFFERED THE WARRANTY, THE MANUFACTURER DID.......HAD THAT SAME AMP BEEN D.O.A., I WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO REPLACE IT WITH A NEW ONE, AND SEND THE BAD UNIT BACK TO THE MANUFACTURER.



I'M NOT LOOKING FOR AN ARGUEMENT....... I JUST FEEL THAT IF PEOPLE ARE EXPECTING TOP NOTCH SERVICE FROM THESE WEBSITES THAT POP UP, A DIME A DOZEN, THEY ARE GOING TO BE SERIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED. I'M ALSO NOT SAYING THAT ALL SITES OFFER CRAPPY SERVICE, BUT ALOT OF THEM DO. PEOPLE NEED TO DO RESEARCH BEFORE JUST BUYING FROM A RANDOM ONLINE SITE.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

How about the tip flies off over a month later? And you didn't put it on, you had the cue drop shipped from a distributor.



Ray

TO ME, THIS IS A BETTER COMPARISON OF THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED HERE. THE TIP COMING OFF A MONTH LATER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RETAILER. IT WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER (IF ANYONE)

IN THE LIGHT SITUATION, THE RETAILER/AND OR THE MANUFACTURER WOULD WANT TO SEE IT/INSPECT IT, BEFORE THEY ISSUED A CREDIT, OR A REPLACEMENT. HOW DOES THE MANUFACTURER KNOW THAT THE BULBS USED DIDN'T EXCEED THE RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM WATTAGE......IF THEY EXCEEDED THE MAXIMUM, IT WOULD VOID THE WARRANTY, AND NO LONGER BE THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THE MANUFACTURER, OR THE RETAILER.

 

[Dartman]

How about the tip flies off over a month later? And you didn't put it on, you had the cue drop shipped from a distributor.

I have had defective product from a major supplier replaced,no problem. I always paid to ship it back to them and they paid to send a replacement. I thought that was fair. Maybe I should ask for more.

Ray

Being specific to my example -
I can't control the manner in which the tip is used and it's expendable but I can stand behind
it when the customer first takes it out of the box.

I think we've had 2, maybe 3 out of the box defective cloth returns this year where we sent out
a call tag so it's really a non-issue on our end but probably something we'll talk about.

 

[Dartman]

WOW... THEY MUST BE HARDCORE CRIMINALS...

You don't have to be hardcore to break the law. It's about protecting your intellectual property rights.
I suppose if someone duplicated the AZ forum it would be ok with you but I doubt it would be ok with Mike.
Check the copyright notice at the bottom of the page and try to figure out what that means.

 

[Dartman]

TO ME, THIS IS A BETTER COMPARISON OF THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED HERE. THE TIP COMING OFF A MONTH LATER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RETAILER. IT WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER (IF ANYONE)

IN THE LIGHT SITUATION, THE RETAILER/AND OR THE MANUFACTURER WOULD WANT TO SEE IT/INSPECT IT, BEFORE THEY ISSUED A CREDIT, OR A REPLACEMENT. HOW DOES THE MANUFACTURER KNOW THAT THE BULBS USED DIDN'T EXCEED THE RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM WATTAGE......IF THEY EXCEEDED THE MAXIMUM, IT WOULD VOID THE WARRANTY, AND NO LONGER BE THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THE MANUFACTURER, OR THE RETAILER.

Absolutely agree the merchandise needs to be returned before anything else can happen.
The thing you don't want to see is the mfg saying send it to the retailer and the retailer saying send it to the mfg.
Whether the mfg or retailer handles the return is between them as long as one of them steps up to handle the situation. I don't know of any concrete rule here other then what retailers and mfg's agree to with respect to defective merchandise.

BUYING ONLINE IS A SAVINGS GAME.....PEOPLE DON'T SHOP ONLINE THINKING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE THAN THEY WOULD AT A B&M......THEY DO IT FOR SAVINGS. A SAVINGS THAT COMES FROM COMPANIES DROP SHIPPING, AND HAVING NO CARRYING COSTS, AND FROM ONLINE STORES NOT HAVING NEARLY THE OVERHEAD, THAT A PROPERLY STAFFED B&M WILL HAVE. (THERE ARE VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS TO THIS)

That's giving B&M's a lot of credit. Some have pisspoor customer service.
Some B&M's also sell online so internet sellers per se can't be completely classified as all drop ship outfits.
Not looking to disagree with you here since a lot of what you say is close to on target but it's not valid to lump all internet sellers into one business model.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Absolutely agree the merchandise needs to be returned before anything else can happen.
The thing you don't want to see is the mfg saying send it to the retailer and the retailer saying send it to the mfg.
Whether the mfg or retailer handles the return is between them as long as one of them steps up to handle the situation.

THE LIGHT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE MANUFACTURER FOR REPAIR/REPLACEMENT. THE WARRANTY IS SOMETHING THEY OFFER, NOT THE RETAILER.

THERE WAS NO NEED TO EVEN CONTACT THE RETAILER.

THAT WOULD HAVE TOTALLY AVOIDED THIS SITUATION, AND THE CONSUMER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN PROPER SERVICE/WARRANTY CARE.

 

[Dartman]

...THERE WAS NO NEED TO EVEN CONTACT THE RETAILER.

I disagree but you're entitled to your opinion.
As a seller I'd want to know about defect issues with products being sold.

Part of good customer service is being the answer man to the customer
even if it's an answer they don't want to hear but how you handle it may keep
the person as a customer rather then send them shopping elsewhere in the future.
If the customers needs to be directed to the mfg for repair/replacement then so be it.

I don't get your "this is how it is" attitude like it's the bible for business.
We agree on some things and disagree on others so rather then get into
a pissing contest I'll leave it at that.