Warning: BilliardPlace.com

Wow!!

That's one big paragraph!! LOL.

I read it anyway. Some good points.

1) If you are gung ho about CFB's then you know they are loaded with mercury. Nothing to mess around with!! DEFINITELY would NOT recommend above a pool table.

2) The main reason many jumped on the RED ship lollipop was because Steve didn't answer the response by Billiardplace.com for a week. He say's he was traveling. ALL hotels have business centers. I carry an I-phone & laptop. Many people today can't comprehend being "out of touch". I guess it's possible, but if this was my thread, I'd go the library if I had to, to check the progression. IMO.

3) Doesn't matter what type of electrical device it is. After 4 months, you send it to the manufacturer and get it replaced or repaired. No refund would ever be issued. (unless it was a policy refund by a seller)

Basically, all that Steve has done is said Paul with billiardplace.com is lying about everything.

How did Paul know that Steve no longer had the original packaging if they never spoke about sending the light back?

Ray
 
Yeah. Gotta agree with Ya on that one. I DEFINITELY would have been monitoring this thread if I were him. Hell even I have pulled off the road more than once into a Holiday Inn parking lot and used their wireless to check my emails from their parking lot! LOL
 
rackem said:
I think that is understood by all. He already has another light.
I believe a refund was offered once the light is returned.

What I am getting at is why did the CFB bulbs fail in this light.
Steve and some others might not know that most CFB are not compatible with dimmers and 3-ways.
You have to get the special ones.
Click to expand...
Good point..ALSO some have a picture and a written warning that the particular light should NOT be installed with the base up.....
 
Has new technology failed the Pool world

cuejoey said:
Good point..ALSO some have a picture and a written warning that the particular light should NOT be installed with the base up.....
Click to expand...
Yep, heat rises
I was wondering about the base up thing.
Thanks for the Info. :cool:
Steve be careful with those burnt bulbs they contain mercury.
They need to be disposed of properly.
 
Urgent!!

rackem said:
Yep, heat rises
I was wondering about the base up thing.
Thanks for the Info. :cool:
Steve be careful with those burnt bulbs they contain mercury.
They need to be disposed of properly.
Click to expand...

VERY important!! handle them wrong and in a couple of years you may be at the Mayo Clinic!!

Ray

I've noticed some red has vanished from Steve. I'm NOT ready to send green back just yet, Unless the Captain says so!! LOL. I still smell a rat somewhere.
 
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Bigtruck said:
That's one big paragraph!! LOL.

I read it anyway. Some good points.

1) If you are gung ho about CFB's then you know they are loaded with mercury. Nothing to mess around with!! DEFINITELY would NOT recommend above a pool table.

2) The main reason many jumped on the RED ship lollipop was because Steve didn't answer the response by Billiardplace.com for a week. He say's he was traveling. ALL hotels have business centers. I carry an I-phone & laptop. Many people today can't comprehend being "out of touch". I guess it's possible, but if this was my thread, I'd go the library if I had to, to check the progression. IMO.

3) Doesn't matter what type of electrical device it is. After 4 months, you send it to the manufacturer and get it replaced or repaired. No refund would ever be issued. (unless it was a policy refund by a seller)

Basically, all that Steve has done is said Paul with billiardplace.com is lying about everything.

How did Paul know that Steve no longer had the original packaging if they never spoke about sending the light back?

Ray
Click to expand...

Ray,

1.) Let's get off the bulbs. You are using the bulb issue to ignore the fact that I am making a strong case that this vendor is not the highest quality.

You are ignoring the fact that they have a credit from their manufacturer on a product I purchased from them and will not share ANY portion of that with me is the issue here.

2.) When I'm working - I'm working. Trying to work 50-60 hours AND travel is not an easy thing to do. I travel everywhere by air. I don't have time to get through all my company email each day. I cannot in good conscience spend time with personal business on AZ Billliards ignoring company business in these VERY challenging times.

But I did repond as soon as I could (late Friday nite) after returning from a long week. You "forgot" to mention that.

3.) One of my "good points" that you fail to acknowledge is that I've negotiated a full credit to BilliardPlace using my time and phone. The return of the light at this point is a small detail. The manufacturer has provided excellent customer service and credited BilliardPlace.

BilliardPlace knows I don't have the orginial packaging because I told them that when I complaining about the shades (and the light reflected) and while I was ordering a $400+ BallStar ball cleaning machine. That' how Ray.

You said BilliardPlace was registering with AZ Billiards to respond to anyone with questions. I have a question. When are they going to contact me about some type of refund to me from the refund I brokered for them from their manufacturer?

Get 'em on here Ray! If they're willing to talk to others why aren't they willing to talk to me? Out in the open, in email, where no one can cuss?

Steve
 
The Solution

1. Since they are obviously aware of the issue send them an email:
Ref order# xxxx and the situation with the light that you are already aware of, please reply with
return instructions and an RA so I may get a refund.

2. Post the email here to include the header.

3. If/when you get a reply post it here.

When you come to the court of public opinion you need evidence.
He said / she said doesn't cut it.
 
Steve said:
Ray,

1.) Let's get off the bulbs. You are using the bulb issue to ignore the fact that I am making a strong case that this vendor is not the highest quality.

You are ignoring the fact that they have a credit from their manufacturer on a product I purchased from them and will not share ANY portion of that with me is the issue here.
Click to expand...

You are ignoring the fact that you have presented NO facts. Get an e-mail from the manufacturer. Forward it to billiardplace.com. I, like others, are having a hard time any manufacturer that has a product with a defect would not want the product back. If for nothing else but to figure out what happened.

Steve said:
2.) When I'm working - I'm working. Trying to work 50-60 hours AND travel is not an easy thing to do. I travel everywhere by air. I don't have time to get through all my company email each day. I cannot in good conscience spend time with personal business on AZ Billliards ignoring company business in these VERY challenging times.

But I did repond as soon as I could (late Friday nite) after returning from a long week. You "forgot" to mention that.
Click to expand...

50-60? That's all? I do it constantly and I still stay in touch. I was traveling last week when Paul responded and I'm traveling now. You could've taken 2 minutes and posted that you will respond on Friday in greater detail. It would've helped your cause.

Steve said:
3.) One of my "good points" that you fail to acknowledge is that I've negotiated a full credit to BilliardPlace using my time and phone. The return of the light at this point is a small detail. The manufacturer has provided excellent customer service and credited BilliardPlace.

BilliardPlace knows I don't have the orginial packaging because I told them that when I complaining about the shades (and the light reflected) and while I was ordering a $400+ BallStar ball cleaning machine. That' how Ray.

You said BilliardPlace was registering with AZ Billiards to respond to anyone with questions. I have a question. When are they going to contact me about some type of refund to me from the refund I brokered for them from their manufacturer?

Get 'em on here Ray! If they're willing to talk to others why aren't they willing to talk to me? Out in the open, in email, where no one can cuss?

Steve
Click to expand...

Billiardplace.com, as far as I've noticed, doesn't respond on the weekend. I'm guessing they will answer your e-mail by Monday or Tuesday.

If No one EVER discussed returning the light, why were you and Maria discussing the packaging for the light?

You need to get an e-mail or letter from the manufacturer to show billiardplace.com and us. Same for Paul with biliardplace.

Paul said in his e-mail. send the light back and he will send you a partial refund. That's what I would do.

Ray

Below is the e-mail that billiardplace.com sent me:
Hi Ray, would you be able to post this for me please, I am still not allowed to post:

Hi everyone, I am Paul Zubkov, owner of Billiard-Place.com also known as BilliarPlace.com. I just wanted to clear up this situation with Steven and his light.

Here is my side ? Steven orders light, gets the light and is not too happy about it. He tells us that the light is not bright enough and that he thinks of putting in more powerful bulbs to get more illumination out of it. He did not indicate that he wanted to return it or exchange it, nothing. Steven is a return customer and as such is treated very well. In fact, he gets some free stuff with an order of the ball cleaning machine. Never mentions anything like this during this discussion, strange isn't it? About 4 month ago he calls and yells at my staff. I had to give one of my girls half a day off because she is very upset by the tone of the conversation and would not stop crying. This girl has been with me for a few years and it's not like it is the first time she has to handle unsatisfied customer (most of my customers are happy). Few more calls, Steven can't be reasoned with, so we tell him to send the light back. Despite the fact that the light is damaged because he put in more powerful light bulbs in it, I decide to give him a refund, just because Steven is a return customer. I overlook the fact that the light was fine when delivered, the fact that he had it for 4 month before calling and demanding refund.

I spoke to the manufacturer, they are a respectable business and I worked with them for about 8 years now. Their product is of the highest quality available in North America. As a matter of fact, I've spoken to the head engineer of the company, he told me that the reason the light might melt is the stronger light bulbs then was recommended. These are not my words; I am not an electrical engineer. So fine, I will accept the loss on the order; all I want is to receive a defective light back. I want to talk to the manufacturer and bring this up at our next contract negotiations, plus I can still use the bar and maybe even shades.

Steven does not want to send the light back; he does not have an original box, and he does not see how anyone would want a defective light back. Well, I don't really care about the original box, and I need that light back. Last conversation we had was that as soon as I will receive the light or at least a tracking number for the shipment of the light, I will issue a partial refund on this order. Why partial you might ask ? the light was in his possession for four month and it was not my fault that some parts melted.

Steven told a member of my staff that he is intending to tell everyone that my company is not trustworthy and "expose" me as a "fraud". I told my telephone staff not to answer his calls and not to return the messages; I don't want to expose my employees to Steven's inappropriate language.

Let me tell you more about myself ? I am 32 years old, started working when I was 18 by installing pool and snooker tables. Did that for a number of years until my left knee went bad ? couple of dislocations, can't really lift anything heavy so I am done as an installer and decided to open my own store. My first store was opened 8 years ago in a town called Richmond Hill just north of Toronto, Canada. I have been selling billiard and snooker related items since. Right now I don't have a "brick and mortar" store, my focus is shifted to online sales and I've been in and around pool business for a number of years. I see customers like Steven all the time. I will not be bullied, that's just not the kind of man I am. Steven if you read this ? my offer stands ? send the light back, get your refund. I will not sell to you any longer; your business is not welcomed at my site.

I will try to follow this discussion, but I must say that I am a busy man and with this X-mass season, I don't have too much time. If anyone wants to contact me directly, you can message me through this forum or email me: paul@billiard-place.com.

Paul Zubkov
 
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A few observations :

I was most put off by the fact some poor lady had to take a half day off because of the berating she suffered from the OP. Turns out this was a bunch of hooey.

There has been more communication between someone with no standing in the matter and the seller instead of the buyer.This is not the way to handle your customers

Everyone misinterpeted the OP's problem, thinking the fixture had melted, but that was not the case.Instead, the fixture was defective, causing the bulbs used in only one socket to malfunction

Because of the unwillingness of the seller to continue communication with the OP,time(4 months) is not a factor.

I will be restoring the rep I took from this member, and hope both the seller and the OP can now communicate and resolve this customer service issue between themselves.
 
What takes so long to register on a message board? seems to me the vendor may be lacking in the communication department, something very important in buisness. JUst an outsiders observation.
 
Board

sydbarret said:
What takes so long to register on a message board? seems to me the vendor may be lacking in the communication department, something very important in buisness. JUst an outsiders observation.
Click to expand...

No. Billiardplace responded to my e-mail on the next business day. The forum can take time to get approved.

Mike,Dave... How but getting billiard-place approved so they and Steve can work this out with us moderating, like Steve wanted.

Ray
 
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???????

I have been following this post from the begining an this is going to be my only response. I think Hangem made an excellent post but I'm going to disagree withit in part. I think Steve made a boo-boo by going all Bazook on the help an he deserves to be red for that if nothing else. I'm sure that Lady has a husband or boyfriend that would like to discuss this with Steve. So in conclusion: Steve, get ready for the smack-down I'm firing up my Laser Taser Green Eliminator an Red Creator for conduct unbecomig
an general princible. Owned........ Imho you deserve much worse........
Pinocchio
 
a question?

Would the light fixture work as advertised with standard bulbs? The bulbs used are known to have issues with heat in some installations. From what I have read so far I don't know if the fixture is defective or the use of the new bulbs, which many fixtures aren't designed for, is the issue. The large base on the bulb may have interfered with ventilation for cooling or even prevented the bulb from screwing into the socket fully.

I did read the bulb was melting which seemed to be an interesting issue. It raises the possibility that the design issue isn't in the light at all but the bulb. Looking at one of the bulbs I have handy that is UL listed, it doesn't have any precautions concerning application other than dimmers and direct exposure to water.

There are unanswered questions in the dealings between Steve and the other parties and for all of those of us on the outside it will always be hearsay. One thing I will point out, posting e-mails on here is meaningless. E-mails are easily edited and I have seen just that done more than once in the past. I think a rereading of the thread will reveal that Steve's earliest complaints were after the return period so he is working on the company's benevolence and desire for good customer relations at best I believe. In similar situations when I felt the customer was being ridiculous I have told them I was through wasting my time with them. I probably haven't done that a half-dozen times in forty years but sometimes enough is enough.

One of the things that doesn't make sense is that Steve says that he arranged a full refund from the manufacturer to BilliardPlace.com. He may have called the manufacturer and got them to agree that they would refund to BilliardPlace but if they actually issued a refund without a request for one from the entity they sold to that would be a first in all my years of business dealing. Stranger things have happened but . . .

Hu


hangemhigh said:
A few observations :

I was most put off by the fact some poor lady had to take a half day off because of the berating she suffered from the OP. Turns out this was a bunch of hooey.

There has been more communication between someone with no standing in the matter and the seller instead of the buyer.This is not the way to handle your customers

Everyone misinterpeted the OP's problem, thinking the fixture had melted, but that was not the case.Instead, the fixture was defective, causing the bulbs used in only one socket to malfunction

Because of the unwillingness of the seller to continue communication with the OP,time(4 months) is not a factor.

I will be restoring the rep I took from this member, and hope both the seller and the OP can now communicate and resolve this customer service issue between themselves.
Click to expand...
 
Billiard Place

The billiard-place account is now active!!

Ray
(waiting with bait on breath)

ps. I e-mail billiard place to let them know! ;)
 
Two for One - Two Red Reps = 1 Green Rep!..ALMOST!

I think it would be easy to look at the negative things in this thread, but let's look at the positive things this thread has brought to light. (No pun intended)

1.) Don't call for the Lynch mob, YOU may end up on the rope yourself. It's never a good idea attempting to inflict a loss far greater than your own. NO good can come from it. Asking for help is the way to go. If you have a reputation for being fair, you will never end up on the rope.

2.) If your products fails after the return period and the vendor wants to give you ANY money back., take it quick. He doesn't have to give it, and if you push the issue for more, people WILL get hurt. The operator who took the calls, the pool business that a young man is trying to make work, a respectable poster gets a blem.

3.) We NOW know about several vendors here with a passion for fairness and good customer service, Manwon - Craig Rittel - owner of Full Splice Billiards Craig is a stand up guy, Dartman - Rick of Poolfelt.com This guys definitely has you covered! LOL. Marcus aka FAST_N_LOOSE - Owner of TIGHT POCKET BILLIARDS and cueexchange.com. This guy has your back and REALLY knows his stuff. Great for Escrow Service too!!

I know there are many GREAT vendors all over the world. Many post here, but it just makes sense to give a hard look at the home team first. (I don't just mean Americans)

I don't think Steve handled this properly. I suspect the CFB and the fixture had some kind of compatibility issue and bashing Billiardplace was out of line IMO. I would've got AS involved to help work things out, without Steve calling for the Lynch Mob.

I also don't think Paul with Billiardplace handled this properly either. It sounded to me like he never understood what the problem was. He thought the sockets were melting when he called the manufacturer, he got his supporting info from their Engineer. He was done.

I read through MOST of Steve's posts (outside of this thread) I got to say. I like Steve. We have a lot in common.

I'm officially re-instating the green to Steve. 1 Green = 2 Reds

Have a great Holiday season everyone! Stay safe.

Seasons Greeting from

Bigtruck
(aka Ray)
 
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?????Bigtruck?????

If you're going to be the Ralph Nader of AZB we need the straight poop. You're restoring Steve's green, go for it. My question is did Steve chow down on the customer-relations girl an get her to cry to the point that she had to leave work??????? If he didn't I also owe Steve an apology an rep tune up. If he is guilty of this I'm giving him more red. Just one members opinion.................
Pinocchio
We need a sworn afidavit from Marina?
 
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Well

Pinocchio said:
If you're going to be the Ralph Nader of AZB we need the straight poop. You're restoring Steve's green, go for it. My question is did Steve chow down on the customer-relations girl an get her to cry to the point that she had to leave work??????? If he didn't I also owe Steve an apology an rep tune up. If he is guilty of this I'm giving him more red. Just one members opinion.................
Pinocchio
Click to expand...

The problem with that part of the story is:

Billiardplace Paul says YES

Steve says NO

You can read through the thread again and read through Steve's posts.

I'm not saying what anyone should do concerning Rep. You decide. It's the essence of REP. Just make it an informed decision.

Thanks buddy!!

Ray
 
Still waiting on BilliardPlace

To say I've learned a lot here would be a bit of an understatement.

I sent BilliardPlace an email Saturday, December 6 advising them of my email address and asking for clarity on this matter. I have not received a response.

To date, I have not received any return phone calls from them either.

I have a screen shot of the confirmation that the email was sent via their email system on their website but cannot post it. If someone could give me a pointer or two on posting an attachment it would be greatly appreciated.

I expect an email from the light manufacturer today confirming that I negotiated a refund to BilliardPlace from the light manufacturer for the dealer cost of the light. The date of this refund to BilliardPlace should be confirmed in this email.

BilliardPlace says they will refund my money if I return the light. BilliardPlace has never given me an address to ship the light to and there is no address on their website.

Once I have an address, I will ship the light to BilliardPlace (if they still want it) when I have in writing from them how much my refund is, and who is responsible for the shipping costs.

BilliardPlace is entitled to determine what the refund is. They are entitled to deduct the cost of freight (if they pay it) and any handling or restocking fees they believe are appropriate. I cannot argue the amount of a refund as this is an unusual circumstance.

I did get BilliardPlace a refund from their manufacturer and I still believe I am entitled to some type of refund for my work. Hopefully it exceeds the cost of shipping and packaging. If it doesn't - I have no recourse.

I just need in writing what the refund to me will be so I know if it exceeds the costs of packaging and shipping (if I am to pay for packaging and shipping)

Still waiting.
 
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