This is exactly right. If you jump in and you are wrong, then YOU'RE the shark.
It is not your duty to serve as your opponent's coach. He has no one to be mad at but himself.
Was I wrong for not telling my opponent he's shooting the wrong ball?!?!
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This is exactly right. If you jump in and you are wrong, then YOU'RE the shark.
It is not your duty to serve as your opponent's coach. He has no one to be mad at but himself.
Bet you guys tap the cue ball and keep shooting too. As long as no one else saw it right?
Im kind of on the fence about this one. But when it comes down to it and Im in a match no matter if I tap the cue ball on accident or he or she is shooting the wrong ball. I always step in and own up to it either way. Its just my natural instinct to be truthful. I guess in a way that the good karma will come back my way sometime.
I play 2 nights a week where we play call pocket and have to mark the pocket on one night. Well, Tues night I forgot to mark a pocket, shot and just about made the eight. My opponent said afterwards, "I bet you're glad you didn't make that one". Was I mad at him? Nope, but I was pissed at myself.
Anyway, don't feel badly. Its your job to sit quietly when not at the table and you're not your opponents baby sitter.
Anyway, don't feel badly. Its your job to sit quietly when not at the table and you're not your opponents baby sitter.
Umm, no. How did you come about making that assumption anyway? I personally call fouls on myself all the time. That's not to say if I was playing someone, I wouldn't just let them do something stupid like shoot the wrong ball. Experience is a great teacher.
I think the only time you should be 'helpful' is if you are aware your opponent is new to your format or a new player in general. I play in a league where many teams are constantly rotating in new players, and if one of them is about to make a stupid mistake I will tell them - mostly because I want them to enjoy the game and want to play more.
On the flip side, if I know the person should know better, no tips are given. I'm not going to laugh and tease them about it, but the foul will get called and they will have learned to pay attention.
On the flip side, if I know the person should know better, no tips are given. I'm not going to laugh and tease them about it, but the foul will get called and they will have learned to pay attention.
True, but some compassion can help to grease the wheels of society and make it easier for all.
I'll tell 'em and always will. No right or wrong answer here, but that's just me. I want to beat them with skill and no other way. But I'm also a hopeless romantic anyway...
In my opinion, in a gambling pool match, nothing should have to be said, period. Agree to the terms of the match and let the play speak for itself. I was in a tournament once where I failed to mark my game won prior to the next break. My opponent told me the rules were if you break prior to marking, then it doesn't count as a win.
I was pretty upset, especially since these rules were not written down nor explained to me as a new player to their tournament. Then I realized there is some pretty sound reasoning behind the rule (to avoid any discretion in the score) so I adopted that discipline for not just games marked, but all aspects of the competition!
I was pretty upset, especially since these rules were not written down nor explained to me as a new player to their tournament. Then I realized there is some pretty sound reasoning behind the rule (to avoid any discretion in the score) so I adopted that discipline for not just games marked, but all aspects of the competition!
That's a very good rule and one they use to use.I'm not so sure If that rule is still in effect or not.It should be.Good thinking there.John B.
Not saying that you did anything wrong because this situation was entirely the other guy's fault, but I don't think what you did was the best possible thing you could have done. For me, I would rather win by beating my opponent rather than recieving it from him. If I had to choose between risking losing by being a nice guy and winning by default, I would choose the former.
It all comes down to why you play. Do you play because you want to win or do you play because you want competition? If you play because you want the competition, why wouldn't you tell him?
To be fair though, I wouldn't tell my opponent if he was a dick, lol.
It all comes down to why you play. Do you play because you want to win or do you play because you want competition? If you play because you want the competition, why wouldn't you tell him?
To be fair though, I wouldn't tell my opponent if he was a dick, lol.
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No, you're not wrong. There is no "wrong" in what you didn't do.
But to have my perspective you have to read a short story that I've written before.
It was an important, local tournament with lots of good players in it. I was lucky enough to be in the finals against a very good player, again, both of us local and have known each other for years. You could say that we respected each other. Both of us owned our own business, had families, had decent pool games, bet our own money, etc....
I'm running out Shane Van Boening :wink: and another person on the adjacent table is THROWING the cue ball repeatedly against the side rail OVER AND OVER, making the cue ball bounce so that he could catch it in the air. I stopped my EASY run out because of the distraction and waited for the guy to stop bouncing the cue ball off of the side rail. When he finally looked at me, he realized that it was distracting me. It was like a spotlight had just been shown on him and he stopped with a look of bewilderment and wanted to say something like "Dude, I'm sorry, I didn't know that was bothering you". The few remaining balls had been well spread and it was the easiest of runouts with all of the balls near the pockets, no paths blocked. I carefully and SLOWLY got into position to shoot the 7 ball and went through my preshot routine as I normally do and stroked the cue ball like Buddy Hall. The 7 ball fell into the pocket and I got perfect shape on the 8 ball. The nine was sitting a few inches from another pocket. My opponent then said, with a look of resignation on his face, "You shot the wrong ball". He knew that I was shooting the wrong ball. He knew that the other person was doing a major distraction, yet he said nothing to the distractor or to me when I should have been shooting the 6 ball. And yes, he had plenty of time to tell me and NO, the seven ball wasn't difficult to get shape from the six ball. He just didn't want to tell me that I was shooting the wrong ball. After he ran out the remaining 3 balls, we shook hands and he "apologized" by saying, "I'm really sorry, man". I wasn't happy with that remark and I responded by telling him, "I got exactly what I should have expected". He then wants to act like he's mad at me for telling him that, saying that he didn't like me thinking he was some kind of piece of s**t.
I just repeated what I had already said and that didn't please him and just dug in a little deeper. What he didn't know is that I was thinking that I simply shouldn't expect anyone to correct my error but I was very happy thinking that he thought I was thinking worse of him. It caused a rift between our quasi-peer-friendship that still exists to this day.
For those who think it is OK to sit back and not say anything, just beware that there is a price to pay for speaking up, just as there is for remaining silent. Just be prepared to accept the consequences for which ever one you choose. I do believe that it is far easier to accept a loss than it is for others to think badly of your character.
That being said, I can't say that I will always speak up. There may be circumstances that might encourage me to say nothing. It is up to each person to work out their own salvation.
But to have my perspective you have to read a short story that I've written before.
It was an important, local tournament with lots of good players in it. I was lucky enough to be in the finals against a very good player, again, both of us local and have known each other for years. You could say that we respected each other. Both of us owned our own business, had families, had decent pool games, bet our own money, etc....
I'm running out Shane Van Boening :wink: and another person on the adjacent table is THROWING the cue ball repeatedly against the side rail OVER AND OVER, making the cue ball bounce so that he could catch it in the air. I stopped my EASY run out because of the distraction and waited for the guy to stop bouncing the cue ball off of the side rail. When he finally looked at me, he realized that it was distracting me. It was like a spotlight had just been shown on him and he stopped with a look of bewilderment and wanted to say something like "Dude, I'm sorry, I didn't know that was bothering you". The few remaining balls had been well spread and it was the easiest of runouts with all of the balls near the pockets, no paths blocked. I carefully and SLOWLY got into position to shoot the 7 ball and went through my preshot routine as I normally do and stroked the cue ball like Buddy Hall. The 7 ball fell into the pocket and I got perfect shape on the 8 ball. The nine was sitting a few inches from another pocket. My opponent then said, with a look of resignation on his face, "You shot the wrong ball". He knew that I was shooting the wrong ball. He knew that the other person was doing a major distraction, yet he said nothing to the distractor or to me when I should have been shooting the 6 ball. And yes, he had plenty of time to tell me and NO, the seven ball wasn't difficult to get shape from the six ball. He just didn't want to tell me that I was shooting the wrong ball. After he ran out the remaining 3 balls, we shook hands and he "apologized" by saying, "I'm really sorry, man". I wasn't happy with that remark and I responded by telling him, "I got exactly what I should have expected". He then wants to act like he's mad at me for telling him that, saying that he didn't like me thinking he was some kind of piece of s**t.
I just repeated what I had already said and that didn't please him and just dug in a little deeper. What he didn't know is that I was thinking that I simply shouldn't expect anyone to correct my error but I was very happy thinking that he thought I was thinking worse of him. It caused a rift between our quasi-peer-friendship that still exists to this day.For those who think it is OK to sit back and not say anything, just beware that there is a price to pay for speaking up, just as there is for remaining silent. Just be prepared to accept the consequences for which ever one you choose. I do believe that it is far easier to accept a loss than it is for others to think badly of your character.
That being said, I can't say that I will always speak up. There may be circumstances that might encourage me to say nothing. It is up to each person to work out their own salvation.
Rules
It is up to each player to know the rules, and if you gamble you damn sure better know them. You are not your opponent's keeper. It was his oversight and his foul. You did nothing wrong.
You are NOT obligated to help your opponent beat you, that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?
It is up to each player to know the rules, and if you gamble you damn sure better know them. You are not your opponent's keeper. It was his oversight and his foul. You did nothing wrong.
You are NOT obligated to help your opponent beat you, that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?
Another thing to consider here is the other side of the coin. What if he didn't call the foul? How do you continue playing? Does your opponent go back to the 4 ball after? The only reasonable course of action would be to take a ball in hand IMO
As far as warning him versus not warning him I personally would not have said anything because you don't know what his intention is.
As far as warning him versus not warning him I personally would not have said anything because you don't know what his intention is.
Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the opinions. After talking to many poeple and getting others perspectives, i've come to realize a few things. People are going to react differently. If vice versa, I would not be mad for him not telling me. I do not expect anyone to tell me if i'm doing a mistake. It's my fault and I do not blame others for my faults nor do I get mad. Secondly, wanting to win and wanting good competition are two perspectives that do play out in a persons thought process. At the beginning of the night, I just wanted my friend to have good competition and no one would play him unless there's a heavy spot. I wasn't looking for a lock up game. I just love seeing great pool. After the guy wouldn't adjust to make it a fair match, that's when I went into the mode of , I'm pissed, Now I just want to beat him and win. Do I believe i'm at fault for not saying anything, NO. What really bothered me is that out of all the people i've gambled with, no one has ever treated me with such disrespect. When I lost in the past to him, whether the game was out of line or not, I paid and lost with dignity. I never complained and would always thank him or whoever for the games. I have never air barreled anyone, I've always played with my own money, If my opponent makes a good shot or run, I complement them. I love this sport and just love watching good pool. So, in the end the only thing I can take from this is that I could have chosen to handle things a different way, but I am in no way wrong for not saying anything, and that people will always have disagreements and not always see eye to eye on things. Hope everyone learns something from this in their own way. Thanks
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Exactly the way I feel. Doesn't matter if it's for fun, in a tournament, or for cash. It's about integrity. Like I said before, I have to live with myself.
If the other guy shoots, its a foul, same as if he shot the wrong ball before you noticed he was shooting the wrong ball. The situation here is him noticing that he is shooting the wrong ball before the shot.
Exactly the way I feel. Doesn't matter if it's for fun, in a tournament, or for cash. It's about integrity. Like I said before, I have to live with myself.
The difference is when you call a foul on yourself you KNOW what happened. In the situation where your opponent shoots at the wrong ball you have to assume you know what he is doing and if you are wrong you're sharking. In this specific situation the OP's opponent sounded like just the kind of guy that would have accused him of sharking even if he was about to commit a foul. There's little that is as unsportsmanlike as doing something that can perceived as a move.
What are you supposed to do if you know darn well that the shot your opponent is about to take is a dead scratch? Are you supposed to warn him? As 420 Trooper said, now you have to determine where the line is.
It is sort of a no win situation for the player in the chair I suppose. But I'm just not that clairvoyant enough to know what my opponent is actually going to do until he does it. All I'm saying is there is a sportsmanlike reason for sitting still in this situation. And I'm a guy who doesn't pattern rack, always calls fouls on himself and will let an opponent know he didn't move his coin.
The difference is when you call a foul on yourself you KNOW what happened. In the situation where your opponent shoots at the wrong ball you have to assume you know what he is doing and if you are wrong you're sharking. In this specific situation the OP's opponent sounded like just the kind of guy that would have accused him of sharking even if he was about to commit a foul. There's little that is as unsportsmanlike as doing something that can perceived as a move.
What are you supposed to do if you know darn well that the shot your opponent is about to take is a dead scratch? Are you supposed to warn him? As 420 Trooper said, now you have to determine where the line is.
It is sort of a no win situation for the player in the chair I suppose. But I'm just not that clairvoyant enough to know what my opponent is actually going to do until he does it. All I'm saying is there is a sportsmanlike reason for sitting still in this situation. And I'm a guy who doesn't pattern rack, always calls fouls on himself and will let an opponent know he didn't move his coin.
Sharking and unsportsmanlike conduct are inherently intentional. If the other guy was lining up for the wrong ball and the OP told him about it, in no way could that be percieved as unsportsmanlike play by a 3rd party. Just being percieved by his opponent as sharking is not unsportsman-like and if he is accused of sharking, that is his opponent's problem, not his.
If someone shoots the wrong ball then I see it was meant for me to win.
He was not paying attention. I can not control his focus. There is no excuse
or free pass for shooting the wrong ball. It is an excuse for losing IMO
if you get mad at your OP. I dont expect or want any help winning.
If I have a brain fart it is my fault
He was not paying attention. I can not control his focus. There is no excuse
or free pass for shooting the wrong ball. It is an excuse for losing IMO
if you get mad at your OP. I dont expect or want any help winning.
If I have a brain fart it is my fault
