watched color of money for the first time

A pool movie couldn't afford Tom Cruise any more.

BTW, being a child of the 80s, I saw COM before the Hustler. Love them both.

A good movie wouldn't want Tom Cruise. He was a caricature. One of the worst roles he's played. It was a good story line and Paul Newman played it very well but Tom Cruise ruined the movie for me. His character, Vince, played great pool and he was cocky. But Cruise went overboard. Scorsese should have reined him in. Could have been a great movie but Scorsese and Cruise ruined it. "The Hustler" was infinitly better.
 
The Color of Money did one thing: give Newman the Oscar for his portrayal of "Fast Eddie" Felson which he should have won in '61. The Hustler is a far superior movie on every level. Better cast, better story line and more authentic. In The Color of Money, towards the end at the tournament, Vincent plays position for a bank??? That never happens in a real world 9 Ball tourney. Nice expert, technical advisor work "Machine Gun".

Actually people do play position for banks in real world tournaments but no pool movie will ever be about "perfect pool".

Neither movie is about pool, both are about character, who has it, who doesn't who can change for the better and who can't.

A good movie wouldn't want Tom Cruise. He was a caricature. One of the worst roles he's played. It was a good story line and Paul Newman played it very well but Tom Cruise ruined the movie for me. His character, Vince, played great pool and he was cocky. But Cruise went overboard. Scorsese should have reined him in. Could have been a great movie but Scorsese and Cruise ruined it. "The Hustler" was infinitly better.

Wow, so much hate for Tom Cruise? I thought he played the role perfectly. His role was to be the cocky player with no real clue about big time pool. We all know that guy, the league player who plays pretty sporty and thinks he can beat anyone but who really knows nothing of the "real" world of pool. In the movie he goes from being a know-it-all punk with a straight stroke who is naive and jealous, to being a calculating and controlling hustler who doesn't mind dumping a tournament match to beat the rail out of money.

I have watched the Color of Money a dozen times at least and the Hustler as many times, both are on my Ipod and sometimes I just listen to them.

There is so much nuance in Scorcese's film that it's impossible to pick it all up in one shot in my opinion.

The movie was about Eddie Felson's character. He stopped playing big time pool but he didn't stop hustling as evidenced by the fact that he was peddling counterfeit liquor. He was a minor stakehorse and not really involved in the pool scene although he kept informed of who was who.

The whole thing with picking up Vince to take him on the road was for Eddie to try and relive his own youth vicariously though Vince. And instead of teaching Vince to play his best which is all Vince wanted to do and what Vince THOUGHT they were going to do Eddie manipulates him and teaches him to hustle, to con in order to get the money. And Eddie goes even lower by using Vince's girlfriend, the one rock that Vince is leaning on, against him.

Tom Cruise plays this role perfectly morphing from the eager go-get-em let's see who is best racehorse into a cynical hardened hustler.

Eddie reprises his role as the hustler who once wanted out of the lifestyle of hustling but didn't make it and who finally, finally after all those year rediscovers his burning desire to be what he almost destroyed in Vince. And that is simply, to be the best, no laying down, no con, no lemon, just the best.

The Color of Money and the Hustler were both great movies.

The ending of The Color of Money was just as it should have ended.
 
One scene that is a standout for me from "The Hustler" is the one where Newman described being "in the zone". Absolutely nailed it (I think - it's been a long time since I've felt that way :embarrassed2: ).
 
One scene that is a standout for me from "The Hustler" is the one where Newman described being "in the zone". Absolutely nailed it (I think - it's been a long time since I've felt that way :embarrassed2: ).

That was when he went on the picnic with Sarah and his hands were in casts. After describing it to Sarah she says, 'you're lucky Eddie, most men never get to feel that way about anything'.

I had an epiphany a few years ago that made me think of this scene. I was thinking about pool players and taking drugs to play better and I realized that playing perfect pool and getting in the zone is the high you can't buy.

You have to earn it.
 
but i never seen the hustler yet.
is this the reason i didnt like the ending? i wanted him to play tom cruise at the end and beat him sooooo frikkin bad!!!
what was the point of them ending the movie like that? i would understand if the color of money 2 came out or something.
or were they trying to steer the pool crowd away from the hustling scene and fix the damage they created with the hustle movie?
Unfortunately, you didn't even see The Color of Money. All they used was the title. Read the Hustler and the color of Money and see what I mean. They did a fair job with the Hustler but it could have been a lot better if they had stuck closer to the book. My opinion.

Dave Nelson
 
but i never seen the hustler yet.
is this the reason i didnt like the ending? i wanted him to play tom cruise at the end and beat him sooooo frikkin bad!!!
what was the point of them ending the movie like that? i would understand if the color of money 2 came out or something.
or were they trying to steer the pool crowd away from the hustling scene and fix the damage they created with the hustle movie?

Damage? What damage? For one thing I very much doubt that either Robert Rosen or Martin Scorcese cared much at all about whatever impact their movies would have or did have on pool.

But in fact both movies lifted pool out of declining popularity and gave it many years of prosperity afterward.

The point of ending the movie the way it ended was to show that being true to yourself is worth more than winning or losing. Worth more than the quick score, worth more than a life spent hustling.
 
The Color of Money did one thing: give Newman the Oscar for his portrayal of "Fast Eddie" Felson which he should have won in '61. The Hustler is a far superior movie on every level. Better cast, better story line and more authentic. In The Color of Money, towards the end at the tournament, Vincent plays position for a bank??? That never happens in a real world 9 Ball tourney. Nice expert, technical advisor work "Machine Gun".

#1 - Pros play for "soft" banks - like the one you're talking about - in 9 ball a lot if it's what they can get for sure as opposed to taking a chance.
#2 - The technical advisor for The Color Of Money was Mike Sigel - not Lou Butera...
 
I like both movies.They both tell a story wich is what I look for in a film.The pool playing is decent but could be better especialy in tCOM.

For me "Im back" is the perfect ending,the entire movie I was pulling for FE to pull out his cue and get back in the game and play to win.It doesn't matter who won that tourney just that he is now a competitive tournament player.The Color of Money portraits a change in pool from an all gambling game to a more tournament rich game.Fast Eddie who was once the ultimate pool hustler,living a rough and ugly lifestile and playing for the $(not the love of the game)becomes a legit tourney player and you can see the joy the game gives him.

As far as a 3rd movie goes.What would it be,Newman making yet another comeback?Maybe they should make several more like the Rocky series...
 
My favorite line in the Hustler is, "You owe me MONEY!!!"

My favorite line in The Color of Money is, "Hey, I'm back."

Perfect ending.
 
Read the book. The movie is so bad it's an insult to pool. Cartoon characterization and a zero imagination plotline that has nothing to do with the novel. Every shot is either a simple stop shot or a ridiculous combo. Scorsese's worst movie and an insult to Tevis. The Hustler is way better. A very decent attempt at making a movie out of the original book.


Agreed.....


A one word description of the movie would be ... Corny
 
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I don't know if people will see this as too cute, but having cruise as the old guy who takes some cocky young new guy under his wing would be good. And we can see how vince finally learned (or failed to learn) all those lessons about proper hustling. Maybe the movie can just be about a grown up older vince who never wins another tournament and quietly robs everyone :P

Sounds like the identical storyline of TCOM.

I think they should come up with an original story if they were going to follow up on the Color of Money, much how the Hustler was a very different storyline from it's sequel.

IMO a new movie about pool should take the general plot of the McGoorty book, start in the past in the 1940's or 1950's with a teenager and follow his path as he gets into the game, eventually becomming a road player and traveling all around the USA, eventually seeing the game shift from money matches to more tournaments and taking part in those as a now older player, and eventually ending with him as an old man. The player the movie would follow would be much as McGoorty, a good shortstop level and we basically watch the pool scene change and see the various players and characters through his eyes.

The way I envision it the movie would start in a modern pool hall in modern times with an old man sitting at the bar, that old man being the one time road player and the whole movie is done as the man thinks back to the life he led that eventually ended up with him sitting in this nameless pool hall watching a couple young and loud bangers hack the balls around while drinking a coffee.

Pool is the perfect backdrop for a movie that spans the history of the last half of the 20th century in America. The movie would do a thing similar to Casino, Zodiac, Blow, Forrest Gump, and other movies that go through a span of time and use the music of the various era's and great art direction showing landmarks and the general feel of the time and places to recreate the era's as the characters go through them.

If a movie was done such as above, directed by someone decent at recreating eras and character building like David Fincher it could do extremely well.
 
The COM is a good movie for it's day.

The Hustler was a "classic!!"

Now let's look at this from a both movie picture (not the books). In the "Hustler" Fast Eddie was a pool hustler who traveled around making some money but deep down his desire to be the "Best" always burned more then money. It shows when he first plays Minnesota Fats. He is up $18,000 but still wants to play and gives that whole speech to Charlie about how it was never about the money, that he was after Fats. The rest of the movie was about Eddie building up his character to where he loses everything and plays Fats one last time to show him that he is the Best.

COM pickups years later and Eddie is a shell of his former self. Eddie see's Vince's talent and smells opportunity to make money. Now here is where my opinion of what happens comes in: As the movie progresses and Eddie takes Vince on the road teaching him to be a Pool Hustler he see's himself becoming more and more like Burt was to him all years ago. I feel a spark goes off inside him when he is Hustled by Amos, Eddie realizes that he is not who he used to be and he didn't want to become Burt so he tell's Vince and Carmen to go on without him, they don't need him, they can make it on there own. That's where Eddie re dedicates himself with the desire to become the best again and where the ending fit's perfectly with Vince being the Hustler now and Eddie being the one who want's to play straight up to see who is the best. It's depicted in the dialouge between them. Eddie is asking for Vince's best game, Vince is saying Eddie can't handle his best game then ask if he want's to play for the Envelope and Eddie shrugs and says "whatever" Vince asks Eddie what he is gonna do when he wipes his ass to the floor (something like that) and Eddie says if he doesn't beat him today I'll beat him next week in Dallas or wherever else he shoot's the break and says "I'm Back". That one line indicates that Eddie has found his way back to his old self the kid who was gunning to be the best and was going to play the best (at the time it was Fats now it's Vince) for as long as it took for him to be the best.

There are also some great lines and quotes in this movie. It's really not as bad as people depict. I mean compare it to Pool Hall Junkies and it looks like a movie of the year candidate!!
 
I don't know if people will see this as too cute, but having cruise as the old guy who takes some cocky young new guy under his wing would be good. And we can see how vince finally learned (or failed to learn) all those lessons about proper hustling. Maybe the movie can just be about a grown up older vince who never wins another tournament and quietly robs everyone :P


Or maybe the The C.O.M sequel could have the setting where Vincent is just getting out of prison from a 10 year hitch from falling to the darkside of pool & was hooked on drugs & flipping dope & now fresh out the joint he picks up his cue again because it's the only thing he knows but finds out there's no more money in pool and it aint what it use to be....hmmmm....naaah....too realistic....wouldn't fly with the general public..lol:rolleyes:
 
but i never seen the hustler yet.
is this the reason i didnt like the ending? i wanted him to play tom cruise at the end and beat him sooooo frikkin bad!!!
what was the point of them ending the movie like that? i would understand if the color of money 2 came out or something.
or were they trying to steer the pool crowd away from the hustling scene and fix the damage they created with the hustle movie?

The point of that ending is that nobody wins in hustling pool.

~rc
 
COM is a good movie....The Hustler is a GREAT movie. The characters portrayed by Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason in The Hustler are worlds better than COM. IMO. Jackie Gleason was an absolute master in his role. Rent the movie tonight. It is black & white, but it is great.

Joe

I was blown away first time I watched The Hustler. I thought it was an "Oscar" caliber movie.

However, COM has Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio factor. She's hawt!!!
 
#1 - Pros play for "soft" banks - like the one you're talking about - in 9 ball a lot if it's what they can get for sure as opposed to taking a chance.
#2 - The technical advisor for The Color Of Money was Mike Sigel - not Lou Butera...

#1: Not to be argumentative as I can only go by what I have experienced. I have attended many professional 9 Ball tournaments and have watched countless on TV and I can honestly say I have never seen a pro play shape for a bank when they could leave shape for an easier shot as Vincent could have.

#2: I stand corrected. Lou was technical advisor for Racing to the Moon with Sean Penn.
 
#1: Not to be argumentative as I can only go by what I have experienced. I have attended many professional 9 Ball tournaments and have watched countless on TV and I can honestly say I have never seen a pro play shape for a bank when they could leave shape for an easier shot as Vincent could have.

#2: I stand corrected. Lou was technical advisor for Racing to the Moon with Sean Penn.

In the World Ten Ball in a match between Jasmin Oushan and Thomas Engert she plays position for a bank and misses the bank.

Again though, pool was just a backdrop for the storyline. For all those that want to dismiss the Color of Money because of some of the pool shots that were unrealistic in game situations, how about the shot in the Hustler
when Eddie calls a ball in the corner and the shot he plays to make it is a bank combination with the object ball in the middle of the table. I mean that shot was something that truly will never ever be played on purpose in any tournament or gambling session ever.

If you really listen to the dialog though it's perfect. Vince says, 'when I saw the lay of the table I knew it was going to be the bank, I mean that's the art of the dump isn't it, to just miss the shot and have everyone pulling for you' - so if you decide to look at it another way from the hustler's perspective maybe Vince knows that if he just "seems" to under draw the shot and end up with position on the bank then it adds to making the dump not be obvious.

But really, we can rail on the technical aspects of the pool in the movie but that shouldn't detract from the content of the movie. In other words if all the pool had been technically just as it would be in real life then would it have made a difference in how the movie was taken by anyone other than us pool junkies? In all of these genre movies, be it Rounders, or Days of Thunder, or take your pick......the activity being used to base the story around is often not portrayed as it happens in real life.
 
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