The difference is the slow-setting water thin epoxy sealer wicks IN the wood.:smile:
water born finish
- Thread starter whammo57
- Start date
The difference is the slow-setting water thin epoxy sealer wicks IN the wood.:smile:
Mike,
I have never seen that lifting effect from the G5 and I have been tracking and observing over 70 cues that play in my pool hall.
When I experimented with UV clear coating I saw the fingernail looking pop many times and it was the primary reason I reverted back to my use of 4 coat sealing with G5 under Hi Solids Automotive clear polyurethane.
Like all procedures required in cue making we all become profecient with our own techniques and master the end results to our own standards and results. Using the slow cure stuff is a great way to go and I would never dispute that fact.
G5 when applied within the correct temperatue range on a clean oil free surface will and does create a substrate for the clear that does not lift or fail. Note: Some solvents can leave an organic residue. This is why it is always best to use an "automotive safe" thinner product after sanding and a quick wipe with isopropyl alcohol. This process absolutely prevents any residue before a coating application.
Rick G
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How many cues have they built that have been on the proving grounds for multiple years plus? I've never water skied behind a cue. If I had a dollar for every time an engineer told me how to build a cue, I could retire.
How many cues have they built that have been on the proving grounds for multiple years plus? I've never water skied behind a cue. If I had a dollar for every time an engineer told me how to build a cue, I could retire.
Engineers and tech specs only provide data points and don't tell people how to build cues.
Without engineering, eastern or western civilization would have collapsed and man would not have survived.
I have never told anybody how to build a cue nor have even suggested to anyone to modify or change their tried and trued methods.
Everybody has their own bend to the brim and that's a cool thing.
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Hey Eric if you don't mind what type of finish are you using. I had one of your cues and it looked nice. Just curios because I'm setting up a spray booth and was planning to test diffent finishes
I have never sealed a cue with G5, so I can't speak from experience,but I have spoken with people who have. It is not for me. I'm not sure why you would trust something that is designed for temporary use anywhere in your cue construction, including sealing the cue, when there are much better alternatives out there.
I have put on Butt Caps and Ferrules with G5. I was told early on by a cue maker who has been building cues for at least 20 years that I was going to have problems. I ignored him. Later on, any cues I installed a butt cap with G5, you can see a ring in the finish. I have replaced several of them. The butt cap doesn't take nearly as much abuse as the ferrule. There is no way I am going to rely on that to hold my ferrules on.
Yes, I have G5 in my shop. I just looked and the last time I bought it was May 9, 2009 and my bottles are still 3/4 full and I buy a gallon of West System 105 resin every couple of months. I use it to hold inlay slabs to pieces of wood and that is all. I will not put it anywhere in one of my cues.
I have put on Butt Caps and Ferrules with G5. I was told early on by a cue maker who has been building cues for at least 20 years that I was going to have problems. I ignored him. Later on, any cues I installed a butt cap with G5, you can see a ring in the finish. I have replaced several of them. The butt cap doesn't take nearly as much abuse as the ferrule. There is no way I am going to rely on that to hold my ferrules on.
Yes, I have G5 in my shop. I just looked and the last time I bought it was May 9, 2009 and my bottles are still 3/4 full and I buy a gallon of West System 105 resin every couple of months. I use it to hold inlay slabs to pieces of wood and that is all. I will not put it anywhere in one of my cues.
I use Cue Cote. It's an epoxy that has UV inhibitors. You can put on a new coat each day. After 3 coats, you should be able to sand and buff. It buffs to a very nice shine.
What kind of finish are you using that takes only 2 hours? Currently, I'm using Cue Cote epoxy but recently purchased some CA for finish.
Your mailbox is full.
Okay. This says why you do not use it, but what and why have you found something else to be better? When I first started building cues, a local cuemaker watched me doing some things and would say things like, "I wouldn't do it that way." I would ask how should I do it and he would tell me that I will figure it out.
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I don't use any West System products but I believe there are better alternatives, even within West Systems, than 5 minute epoxy. I use a finishing epoxy as a sealer, which is thin by epoxy standards. I get a good penetration and seal and it takes around 3 hours to cure, best if left overnight.
I'm not using it to just fill pores so I use less spray finish, I use it to seal the wood and protect it from outside AND inside elements. I believe using a 5 minute epoxy sealer does not wick into the wood as well, thus making it only a filler and not necessarily a sealer. Some woods do not allow the spray finish to adhere as well as others due to oils and such. Penetrating the wood acts as a primer for my finish.
My observations are based on my experience with the epoxies I use. It may or not ring true to every brand.
I also want to make the point that I have tried to use 30 minute and the 24 hour epoxies here in the shop. None worked as well as the finishing epoxy, for me.
Look at the intended purpose of the particular epoxy you want to use. It has a chemistry design for a specific purpose. If it is for adhesion, it may not work well for sealing. I wouldn't use my 24 hour epoxy to glue a ferrule. Why? It wicks into the wood leaving a glue line. I'd rather use wood glue or my 5/30 minute epoxy, depending on the ferrule material. When I tried my 24 hour epoxy to seal, it was too hard to sand smooth. 5 minute wasn't hard enough.
What's the point in all of this? Find what works best for you. There is a lot of info on this section. No one would post a method they use if it didn't work FOR THEM. Try it for yourself and note the results. Then, try something else. Is it better? More efficient? More economical? All must be taken into consideration.
Look at the intended purpose of the particular epoxy you want to use. It has a chemistry design for a specific purpose. If it is for adhesion, it may not work well for sealing. I wouldn't use my 24 hour epoxy to glue a ferrule. Why? It wicks into the wood leaving a glue line. I'd rather use wood glue or my 5/30 minute epoxy, depending on the ferrule material. When I tried my 24 hour epoxy to seal, it was too hard to sand smooth. 5 minute wasn't hard enough.
What's the point in all of this? Find what works best for you. There is a lot of info on this section. No one would post a method they use if it didn't work FOR THEM. Try it for yourself and note the results. Then, try something else. Is it better? More efficient? More economical? All must be taken into consideration.
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Scares me enough to rethink why it would be used in a cue unless you're looking for repeat business.
WORD!:thumbup:
I have quite a few varieties of glue on hand and I don't put my ferrules on with West System. I have tried that twice. The first time was great and the second time, it left a ring, so I stopped doing it.
Hi,
This had been a great thread and as we can see there are a lot of ways to skin the cat. Ryan has made a very good reason why wicking is so relevant and his method requires that component from his epoxy.
Mike stated that he did not like using the quicker epoxy because he saw substrate lifting off the wood under the clear when he tested it. When I do the multi layer monolithic quick cure @ .012, it is over the final cut dimension that was fully soaked or wicked with deep penetrating lacquer sealer that is later sanded smooth with 100 psi air. I sand the cured epoxy down to 3 mills before prepping for clear.
Since my quick epoxy is coated over this deep sealed and scratched @ 220 grit I think this is doubtless why quick adhesion is successful in my method. The first layer must be pressed aggressively onto the cue with your finger. Those 220 scratches unlike wood pores form micro keyways for a good foundation.
For the record, I think it is great that everyone here has made comments for the way they do their magic in this coatings area. Everyone here understands that your finish is one of the most frustrating skill sets to master and it is the first thing a customer looks at and compares your cue to someone else's. We all want to polish our apples the best we can and want to strive for an ideal for perfection.
By having these discussions we are participating in peer check and peer review as it is done in the scientific community. As Chris has mentioned, years ago when there were many less cue makers out there the old timers never gave up hard experience and that was that. Today with internet and global markets the game is different.
There is no doubt that everyone here is in a good place with their process. The fact that we have put our thoughts in the open here gives all of us a chance to re think some details that we may have put to bed and might be on the back burner.
I for one am in that good place, but it's great to here open comments from journeymen because who knows, maybe I will use water born or try UV again some day. NAAAA. Just Kidding. :groucho:
Since everyone here is very passionate about their craft we all gain when we share and or respectfully disagree.
Thanks,
Rick G
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hdgis1
New member
http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5460&highlight=#5460
Check out this link. Im a big fan of Mirka Gold and the abralon sanding mesh.
Chris
Check out this link. Im a big fan of Mirka Gold and the abralon sanding mesh.
Chris