What cue stroke are you using?

[ENGLISH!]

Neil says that I should not be referring to a straight moving cue but should be referring to it as a 'level' cue. Neil says that that is me trying to rename a pool term. (Like I could do that.)

I'm just wondering how many of you know what the difference is & why I differentiate between the two of them when 'talking' about the 'pendulum stroke' & the 'piston stroke'?

Apparently Neil does not see or understand a difference or is just intentionally trying to cloud & muck up the issue.

Best to All,
Rick

 

[noMoreSchon]

Just to be clear.

Do you mean a slip stroke where the hand slips back to grip the cue or one where the grip lets the cue slip forward on the forward stroke, sort of like a throw.

Thanks in advance & Best Wishes,
Rick

The cue slips forward, like a dart. I have lately returned to it, kind of something fun to do, and still am amazed by it. I exclusively used it in my early days of playing pool. I have no idea how I came to my current stroke which I can describe as ???? Is it a pendulum? Or do I move more to maintain a level cue? I can trust my stroke. That is all I need to know.

 

[Neil]

Neil says that I should not be referring to a straight moving cue but should be referring to it as a 'level' cue. Neil says that that is me trying to rename a pool term. (Like I could do that.)

I'm just wondering how many of you know what the difference is & why I differentiate between the two of them when 'talking' about the 'pendulum stroke' & the 'piston stroke'?

Apparently Neil does not see or understand a difference or is just intentionally trying to cloud & muck up the issue.

Best to All,
Rick

Rick, if you are saying that I was wrong, (and I said that to give you the benefit of the doubt) then the other choice is that you are saying that a pendulum stroke cannot have the cue go forward in a straight line. If that is actually what you are saying, you know even less about pool than I or anyone else has given you credit for. Go ahead, pick your choice.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The cue slips forward, like a dart. I have lately returned to it, kind of something fun to do, and still am amazed by it. I exclusively used it in my early days of playing pool. I have no idea how I came to my current stroke which I can describe as ???? Is it a pendulum? Or do I move more to maintain a level cue? I can trust my stroke. That is all I need to know.

Hey, if it works for you & you can trust it, then it's right for you.

I occasionally 'throw' the cue through as you do. I did it several times today. Funny thing is I find myself doing it when my speed gets a bit off. We had a storm front come through this afternoon.

Thanks for the reply. Maybe the thread can get back on topic.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I, & I am sure that very very many if not all that use a straight moving cue, can close the eyes & make a straight stroke. (I would not recommend turning the head as Sean stated.)

Rick

Care to make a wager on your statement?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Care to make a wager on your statement?

Same old tactic Scott Lee tried to use. Instead of logical discussion, make it about money. Then when I came back with a FAIR bet, he ran.

Another common tactic is to quote single statements out of context. When that is done the statement can take on a different appearance.

Scott just did the same thing in another thread.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

So let's hear what your FAIR Bet is for YOUR statement.

I, & I am sure that very very many if not all that use a straight moving cue, can close the eyes & make a straight stroke. (I would not recommend turning the head as Sean stated.)

Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

So let's hear what your FAIR Bet is for YOUR statement.

I, & I am sure that very very many if not all that use a straight moving cue, can close the eyes & make a straight stroke. (I would not recommend turning the head as Sean stated.)

Rick

In your case & in this instance you have not offered a bet so I can not come back with a fair one.

As Scott realized, & I know, & you should know, winning or losing one bet actually proves nothing.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick, if you are saying that I was wrong, (and I said that to give you the benefit of the doubt) then the other choice is that you are saying that a pendulum stroke cannot have the cue go forward in a straight line. If that is actually what you are saying, you know even less about pool than I or anyone else has given you credit for. Go ahead, pick your choice.

Are you arguing with Bob Jewitt's comparison of the tip movement of a 'pendulum stroke' vs. a 'piston stroke'? His chart indicates that with a fixed elbow the tip arcs down as the cue butt is taken back & up & then the tip arcs back up as the cue butt returns down & forward & then arcs back down as the cue butt is brought up in the finish. If you are arguing with that then explain your point. How can that be a straight line?

Do you even know that 'straight' does not mean one directional on one plane but in EVERY direction. It seems that you do not even know what a straight line is.

This is why I have stopped responding to you on numerous occasions because you & others want to PLAY vernacular war & use words inappropriately. Do you know what level really means?

This all started because randyG made an assertion that the tip moves 'level'/straight for several inches. I asked how so. I even stated that if that were TRUE that it might change my opinion of the 'pendulum' stroke. NO definitive bio-mechanical explanation has been put forth by any PBIA instructor. In fact one or two agreed that it does not exist or if so is miniscule & certainly not for several inches.

Instead of trying to make me prove that that assertion is false, why don't you prove that it is true.

You guys are back to same old same old. The tag team gang. Divide & conquer. Soon Sparkle will show up & then nobcity with his insults.

This was not the intention of this thread but you & the gang have trolled it to death.

Also as of my edit of this post the complete pendulum stroke is behind in the poll 2 to 1. 24 complete pendulums & a combined 48 for not & not how you made in out to look. A piston J stroke is not a complete pendulum.

You have a good evening.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Are you arguing with Bob Jewitt's comparison of the tip movement of a 'pendulum stroke' vs. a 'piston stroke'? His chart indicates that with a fixed elbow the tip arcs down as the cue butt is taken back & up & then the tip arcs back up as the cue butt returns down & forward & then arcs back down as the cue butt is brought up in the finish. If you are arguing with that then explain your point. How can that be a straight line?

Do you even know that 'straight' does not mean one directional on one plane but in EVERY direction. It seems that you do not even know what a straight line is.

This is why I have stopped responding to you on numerous occasions because you & others want to PLAY vernacular war & use words inappropriately. Do you know what level really means?

This all started because randyG made an assertion that the tip moves 'level'/straight for several inches. I asked how so. I even stated that if that were TRUE that it might change my opinion of the pendulum stroke. NO definitive bio-mechanical explanation has been put forth by any PBIA instructor. In fact one or two agreed that it does not exist or if so is miniscule & certainly not for several inches.

Instead of trying to make me prove that that assertion is false, why don't you prove that it is true.

You guys are back to same old same old. The tag team gang. Divide & conquer. Soon Sparkle will show up & then nobcity with his insults.

This was not the intention of this thread but you've trolled it to death.

You have a good evening.

I was trying not to get involved, but now you're just arguing semantics. The straight line in cueing is based on one thing, and one thing only. Hitting the intended spot on the CB.

If one aims at center CB, and hits center CB, then the cue is moving in a straight line. The tip pointing down after contact is just as irrelevant as the elbow dropping, provided it's done after contact.

Here's a little diagram of a before and after pendulum stroke.

Looks pretty straight to me.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The Bombardments?

Okay, I don't know about Y'all, but personally I'm getting tired of all of the bombardments.

Do Y'all think if I said that the SPF Pendulum stroke was the bees knees & the best thing since sliced bread that Randy, Scott, Tony, Neil, Sean, Sparkle, & nob would like me?

Well it doesn't matter because I can't say that because I don't think that it is.

However, as I have said on what is now numerous occasions, if one can not perform a straight line cue movement piston type stroke properly and they can perform a pendulum type stroke properly then that is what they should do.

Personally I would only do so as a last resort. I would first seek help to see if any existing 'road blocks' could be removed that would enhance one's piston stroke. Then if there were no significant improvement I'd give the pendulum stroke a try. Hypothetically of course.:wink: I'm not changing my stroke at age 60. Although TOI might be changing it, but not to a pendulum.

Oh well, I guess I won't be liked.

Best Wishes to All,
Rick

 

[BeiberLvr]

Do Y'all think if I said that the SPF Pendulum stroke was the bees knees & the best thing since sliced bread that Randy, Scott, Tony, Neil, Sean, Sparkle, & nob would like me?

Well it doesn't matter because I can't say that because I don't think that it is.

Rick,

I'm not trying to get you to switch.

Read this again

The straight line in cueing is based on one thing, and one thing only. Hitting the intended spot on the CB.

If you and I were both given a straight in shot, and hit the CB at the exact same spot at the exact same speed. I could keep my elbow still and you could drop yours. The results would be identical.

 

[Cory in DC]

My stroke, is mine. It is unique to me.

Sounds like a variant of the USMC version: This is my stroke. There are many strokes like it, but this one is mine. . .

 

[Tony_in_MD]

In your case & in this instance you have not offered a bet so I can not come back with a fair one.

As Scott realized, & I know, & you should know, winning or losing one bet actually proves nothing.

Well I thought you would like the first shot at the parameters but OK here it is.


Stroke the cueball firmly (no lag stroke) from the headspot, up and back to you. It must come back and hit your tip and it must be done with a draw stroke and an open bridge with your eyes shut (or turning your head if you like)

Remember you said most if not all people who use straight moving can stroke their cue straight with their eyes closed.

We need the cueball to help us tell us how straight this stroke is right or left, and of course the video will show us how straight the cue moves in the other direction.

What do you think 10/10 20/20 or 50/50 in one video session, no splicing of the best shots over multiple days, weeks or years?

 

[Ratta]

"All in" if someone bets he would make 10/10



Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2

 

[Ratta]

Ingo,

The portion in bold & blue above is interesting.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

I used to have an almost pure pendulum. Bc of several issues with elbow and shoulder i had to change it.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2

 

[Neil]

Are you arguing with Bob Jewitt's comparison of the tip movement of a 'pendulum stroke' vs. a 'piston stroke'? His chart indicates that with a fixed elbow the tip arcs down as the cue butt is taken back & up & then the tip arcs back up as the cue butt returns down & forward & then arcs back down as the cue butt is brought up in the finish. If you are arguing with that then explain your point. How can that be a straight line?

Do you even know that 'straight' does not mean one directional on one plane but in EVERY direction. It seems that you do not even know what a straight line is.

This is why I have stopped responding to you on numerous occasions because you & others want to PLAY vernacular war & use words inappropriately. Do you know what level really means?

This all started because randyG made an assertion that the tip moves 'level'/straight for several inches. I asked how so. I even stated that if that were TRUE that it might change my opinion of the 'pendulum' stroke. NO definitive bio-mechanical explanation has been put forth by any PBIA instructor. In fact one or two agreed that it does not exist or if so is miniscule & certainly not for several inches.

Instead of trying to make me prove that that assertion is false, why don't you prove that it is true.

You guys are back to same old same old. The tag team gang. Divide & conquer. Soon Sparkle will show up & then nobcity with his insults.

This was not the intention of this thread but you & the gang have trolled it to death.

Also as of my edit of this post the complete pendulum stroke is behind in the poll 2 to 1. 24 complete pendulums & a combined 48 for not & not how you made in out to look. A piston J stroke is not a complete pendulum.

You have a good evening.

:thud::thud::thud:

 

[Neil]

Okay, I don't know about Y'all, but personally I'm getting tired of all of the bombardments.

Do Y'all think if I said that the SPF Pendulum stroke was the bees knees & the best thing since sliced bread that Randy, Scott, Tony, Neil, Sean, Sparkle, & nob would like me?

Well it doesn't matter because I can't say that because I don't think that it is.

However, as I have said on what is now numerous occasions, if one can not perform a straight line cue movement piston type stroke properly and they can perform a pendulum type stroke properly then that is what they should do.

Personally I would only do so as a last resort. I would first seek help to see if any existing 'road blocks' could be removed that would enhance one's piston stroke. Then if there were no significant improvement I'd give the pendulum stroke a try. Hypothetically of course.:wink: I'm not changing my stroke at age 60. Although TOI might be changing it, but not to a pendulum.

Oh well, I guess I won't be liked.

Best Wishes to All,
Rick

Rick, it's got nothing to do with liking you. It's got nothing to do with what stroke you prefer to use. It's got nothing to do with what is the best stroke. It's got everything to do with you not understanding at all what you are so fixated on disputing. With you using terms to mean something else than what the entire rest of the world means. With you constantly harping against what instructors teach without having a clue what they teach. With you making crap up all the time. And with you not understanding even the basic sentences without twisting them around to something else.

You want people to leave you alone? Quit posting about things you don't know about. It's that simple. Don't you realize that we are also sick and tired of having to point out where you are wrong on the same things over and over? And, it's not just a matter of being wrong about something. It's your fixation on being against what 90% of the instructors teach. Constantly tearing and ripping and twisting every little statement you can come up with. Just to try and make it look like you are helping someone, when all you are doing is hurting others. Just in this thread alone you have made a number of statements that are absolutely absurd. It's almost like you are in some parallel world and don't see things like the rest of us do.

You are like the Jesse Jackson of the pendulum stroke. He probably thinks he's really trying to help too. But, he is so misinformed that all he does is make things worse. And he refuses to look at the actual truth, it's got to be his way. Other topics, you've made some good observations and posts. Nobody hounds you on every post you make. We do hound you on the B.S. Quit trying to hard to be liked, and just try to be knowledgeable and factual for a change.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I was trying not to get involved, but now you're just arguing semantics. No, I'm stating the 3D reality & it appears that Neil & Sean have been successful in clouding that reality with semantics & vernacular. The straight line in cueing is based on one thing, and one thing only. I don't think so. See the following. But in my opinion hitting that 3mm by 3mm spot is easier to do consistantly with a cue that is moving straight in EVERY direction & NOT just on the side to side plane. Hitting the intended spot on the CB. Yes hitting the intended spot on the target is important but hitting it with the exact up & down angle that one wants is just as important.

If one aims at center CB, and hits center CB, then the cue is moving in a straight line. NO... the cue could be moving on an arc as it hits the center aim point & be more upward or downward than intended.The tip pointing down after contact is just as irrelevant as the elbow dropping, provided it's done after contact. The tip pointing down has nothing to do with the discussion. The tip can be pointing down in a straight line piston type stroke if the cue is angled down on that straight line.

Here's a little diagram of a before and after pendulum stroke.

Looks pretty straight to me.

Sarcastically, is that diagram pictured from above the ball or is it a view from the side of the ball looking into the rail?

I hope you see that difference.

On what axis are you trying to demonstrate? Hit a ball TOO low or TOO high & you can mis your position by not controlling the vertical spin on the ball.

You & your diagram are exhibiting one dimension & one aspect which also exhibits one dimensional thinking in this discussion & perhaps in actual play.

No offense but some of you are starting to make me feel like Patrick Johnson.

As I have said in another post, I think the collective 'you' protest TOO much & makes me wonder why. Remember it is not just me that says that the tip is arcing down, up, down but Bob Jewitt's chart comparing tip movement for both still & dropped elbow strokes. Maybe you & the rest should be arguing with Mr. Jewitt.

randyg made an assertion that the tip moves 'level'/straight for several inches in a fixed elbow pendulum stroke. I asked how because I don't see it & Bob Jewitt's charts do not support that assertion. NO PBIA instructor has given any explanation as to how that assertion can be true, bio-mechanically or otherwise. Renfro/Chris (apparently he has switched from the pendulum after wasting many years) has offered the best possibility in saying that a certain grip action might be the answer, but if so it is in the opposite direction of the pendulum swing & would be unnatural to the montra of letting the cue do the work & would also need to be timed & coordinated. So...would that be more simple than to just let the elbow drop when it wants to to keep the cue moving straight?

As I have also said once before, it seems to me that maybe you me like you & Larry are trying to talk yourselves out of 'buyers remorse' more than anything else. Keep in mind that I have received quite a few PMs stating just how much money & time that some have wasted to the point of near total frustration regard the 'pendulum stroke' as taught to them by a certified instructor. I understand that nothing can be 100% successful, but am just pointing out that the pendulum stroke was not as effective for them as they wanted their stroke to be so they switched.

As it always should be, different strokes for different folks. If the pendulum stroke works for you or anyone else & you are happy with it, fine. Stay with it. I just feel that the different parameters should be available for each individual so that they can make their own determination.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[Neil]

Sarcastically, is that diagram pictured from above the ball or is it a view form the side of the ball looking into the rail?

On what axis or you trying to demonstrate? Hit a ball TOO low or TOO high & you can mis your position by not controlling the vertical spin on the ball.

You & your diagram are exhibiting one dimension & one aspect which also exhibits one dimensional thinking in this discussion.

No offense but some of you are starting to make me feel like Patrick Johnson.

As I have said in another post, I think the collective 'you' protest TOO much & makes me wonder why. Remember it is not just me that says that tip is arc down, up, down but Bob Jewitt's chart comparing tip movement for both still & dropped elbow strokes. maybe you & the rest should be arguing with Mr. Jewitt.

Best Wishes,
Rick

Geesh, Rick. The diagram shows a straight stroke. What you are talking about is referred to as a level stroke. Please at least learn what the terms mean to the rest of the world.