What do the Top Players in the World AIM at?

BRKNRUN said:
It usually only takes one or two....What makes it look right? What made it look wrong?

This was is a clip from your prior post....



I am pretty sure that falls into the catagory from your list of "spot" aiming.

You also mention the outcome of "overcut" and "undercut" which suggests "fractional" aiming is perhaps getting in there somewhere.

Again.....You have probably hit so many balls that this is all second nature to you.....so now you can get down on the shot and say to your self...."It looks right"

I am pretty sure being able to get down on a shot and just tell yourself it looks right is the goal of almost any pool player....However....until then...there are "various" methods to help players "test" his/her hypothesis

I (like I belive you do as well) believe more devotion should be spent on PSR and foundation fundamentals.....Grip, Stance, Posture, Alignment.

"aim" IMO is just a small portion of the fundamental "Alignment"....
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hmmmm, no. The "spot" on the ball I was trying to refer to is where the cue tip hits the cue ball, though I can understand how this might be misinterpreted.

As to the fractions, I know there are guys out there that divide the object ball up into 64 slices, but I'm not one of those. It's more a scooch more or a smouch less type of thing, more or less :-)

As to what makes it look right it's like asking what makes a putt look right? Or how do you know you're going to sink a basket? It just does.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I guess I don't understand, because that's not what I'm saying -- "overlap" to me means visualizing the overlap at the moment the CB and OB contact and using that to aim Would you care to explain, WINK.
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It doesn't have to be

(1) visualize/determine the correct overlap
(2) Use that to aim.

It could be you "just aim," as in get into position making sure the shot looks right.

The subtlety come in when you consider what "looks right" really means for you. And we can understand that by figuring out what "looks wrong" means for you.

So imagine you start going through your psr and you're getting to the point when you normally could close your eyes and proceed and you realize something is wrong. You don't have that normal warm and fuzzy feeling about the shot. Houston, we have a problem.

From here I put people into two camps.

One communicates back to Houston the aim needs to go a little to the left or to the right --these are LINE people.

The other communicates back to Houston the aim needs to be a little thicker or a little thinner -- these are OVERLAP people

I think most pros and folks who would claim to aim by "feel" are overlap people.
 
mikepage said:
It doesn't have to be

(1) visualize/determine the correct overlap
(2) Use that to aim.

It could be you "just aim," as in get into position making sure the shot looks right.

The subtlety come in when you consider what "looks right" really means for you. And we can understand that by figuring out what "looks wrong" means for you.

So imagine you start going through your psr and you're getting to the point when you normally could close your eyes and proceed and you realize something is wrong. You don't have that normal warm and fuzzy feeling about the shot. Houston, we have a problem.

From here I put people into two camps.

One communicates back to Houston the aim needs to go a little to the left or to the right --these are LINE people.

The other communicates back to Houston the aim needs to be a little thicker or a little thinner -- these are OVERLAP people

I think most pros and folks who would claim to aim by "feel" are overlap people.
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Seems to me that the "overlap people" are sending the ball down a line and that after they have "the line" they use their experience to translate this into the amount of overlap. Is that more or less efficient? Guess it depends on the player, their experience and their preferred way of seeing the world.

Are overlap people using the permissible error based on pocket width? This would be inefficient as the "line" player can use the permissible error for shot making and positional play, given that the line player is playing "exact" lines and not pockets.
 
mikepage said:
It doesn't have to be

(1) visualize/determine the correct overlap
(2) Use that to aim.

It could be you "just aim," as in get into position making sure the shot looks right.

The subtlety come in when you consider what "looks right" really means for you. And we can understand that by figuring out what "looks wrong" means for you.

So imagine you start going through your psr and you're getting to the point when you normally could close your eyes and proceed and you realize something is wrong. You don't have that normal warm and fuzzy feeling about the shot. Houston, we have a problem.

From here I put people into two camps.

One communicates back to Houston the aim needs to go a little to the left or to the right --these are LINE people.

The other communicates back to Houston the aim needs to be a little thicker or a little thinner -- these are OVERLAP people

I think most pros and folks who would claim to aim by "feel" are overlap people.
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Who is Houston?

Lou Figueroa
burlap people
burp
 
Johnnyt said:
Setting up and then closing your eyes before pulling the trigger will help you trust your stroke. You won't change anything at the last instant. If your set right, aim and stroke is good, the ball has to go in. Johnnyt
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Sometimes ill have someone get all set to shoot then right before they pull the trigger you put a sheet of paper infront of there face. A friend of mine that was an instructor showed me this and it does help.
 
mikepage said:
I'm not sure it's true that "everybody aims AT something." It's enough to have a sense of the overlap between the balls.

Let's assume that you have the ability to stroke the cue along the line from your visual center to the desired tip-cueball contact point.

If so, then AIMING doesn't have to be about pointing the cue at anything. Aiming could be just about finding the correct position for your visual center.

Forget the stick. Move your eyes to where the shot looks right and you're done. The shot looking right is more about the overlap than anything, imo.

I think this is the value of all this pivot-based aiming stuff. The pivot don't mean squat. The key is to aim the shot without the bias of the stick: to get the visual center in the right place. Only THEN does the stick come into play to complete the straightforward physical task part of it. The pivoting part is just a rain dance, imo.

Players who aim this way might actually feel a little baffled inside when you ask what they aim at. They don't really aim at anything.
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You're actually really, really close with this - except the pivot means something. Moving your eyes to the "correct" position is crucial to give you the proper perception of the "correct" center of the CB (because if your eyes move 1" in either direction, you're not perceiving the correct center - it might be the center, but not the right one).

The reason why the pivot plays a much bigger part than you think is from this correct visualization of "center," the cue pivots from an offset position to center (the pivot point is not on the center line). Therefore, it's the pivot that provides the correct solution. The pivot IS TOTALLY over-rated in that the manner in which you pivot doesn't matter as long as the arc is the correct arc for the shot. Whether it's a bridge pivot, shoulder pivot, hip pivot or if you air-pivot and can visualize the movement in your mind and step straight into the line of aim - it doesn't matter (I think most of that is personal preference).

90% is moving your eyes where they need to be. I'd bet most people who focus 100% on eye positioning to ball pocketing are pulling the cue into the shot from the inside-to-center and have a slightly turned cue (even 1/2 tip movement--- all that's needed).

So, the sight line and cue line aren't congruent; although, depending on the pivot they can be VERY close.
 
sfleinen said:
Mike:

This is a GREAT synopsis. There's a good video released on YouTube that describes exactly this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

In it, Trevor makes great use of "POV" (point of view) angles of the camera, and he puts you right behind the shot so you can see what he's talking about. It really is not that difficult. Granted, this assumes you have superior fundamentals (as Trevor does) in delivering the cue ball accurately. He also attempts to debunk the "x number of tips" aiming method, which is flawed for many reasons.

-Sean
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Thanks for posting Sean. good video. Camera angles very helpful.
 
Spidey:
That's all I ever do: light a candle, kill a chicken, and click my heels. I'm just a guesser.
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I think you shoot great, and I think you're "just a guesser" (like just about everybody else), and I think you should be proud of both. If your system was really "exact", anybody could shoot like you do.

pj
chgo
 
Baseball is totally different. In the majors its hand eye coordination and the starting early involves quessing the pitch and location, things that have nothing to do with pool. To learn how to hit a baseball have someone slow pitch a wiffle ball a million times, if you can't hit after that take up tennis.
iusedtoberich said:
Please someone tell me how to aim to hit a baseball with a bat. I always sucked at baseball and used to strike out a lot as a kid when I played in the local athletic association (softball).

I don't even know if we had curve balls in softball as kids. How would you hit a baseball curveball?

Do you have to calculate the contact point on the bat? Do you see the contact point on the ball? How do you hit the ball on the middle portion of the diameter of the batt so it goes straight and does not pop up? From what I understand, a major league batter has to start his swing well before the ball is anywhere near him, because it is going so fast. How does he know where the ball will be at the time it crosses the plate? How does he calculate that?

Please tell me how to aim to hit a baseball. I want to be a good batter. I was always the bench warmer for half the game because I was bad. I'm sure the only reason I was a bench warmer was because I did not have this knowledge that all the good players on my team had. Please help me to hit a ball so I can regain my baseball dignity!
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Mikjary said:
What about Max Eberle, Donny Mills , or Chris Bartram? Some great talent there for sure!

Best,
Mike
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And don't forget about those across the pond, Darren Appleton and also on this side on occasion, Thorsten Hohmann.

But just like Smitty insinuates about himself, they are professionals so why would they answer his questions for free anyway? Professional courtesy? I doubt if there would be any extension offered but I hope I'm wrong.

I haven't gotten to the end of this thread but I doubt if any other TOP players are going to respond to his request either vie PM or in this thread.

If they do respond, they stand the chance of being banned from this forum just like Smitty risks by calling people names.

Smitty, since you didn't read the forum rules in The Sticky Notes, I copied them so you won't have to hunt for them:

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JoeyA said:
And don't forget about those across the pond, Darren Appleton and also on this side on occasion, Thorsten Hohmann.

But just like Smitty insinuates about himself, they are professionals so why would they answer his questions for free anyway? Professional courtesy? I doubt if there would be any extension offered but I hope I'm wrong.

I haven't gotten to the end of this thread but I doubt if any other TOP players are going to respond to his request either vie PM or in this thread.

If they do respond, they stand the chance of being banned from this forum just like Smitty risks by calling people names.

Smitty, since you didn't read the forum rules in The Sticky Notes, I copied them so you won't have to hunt for them:

AzBilliards Forums Rules


Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of AzBilliards Forums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of AzBilliards Forums, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.
All posts will be kept civil.

Items that will be allowed for sale must be pool related.

The owners of AzBilliards Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
I have read, and agree to abide by the AzBilliards Forums rules.

Three strikes, you're out.


You are allowed only one screen name. Multiple personalities will result in all the personas being removed.
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Joey what about Lou attacking Bills credentials and calling him a "douche bag" ?
Kick Lou off well all be better off.From the beging Bill was respectfull until pushed.I dont think saying thanks but I wanted to hear from top players is so rude.Calling someone an "IDIOT" while may be true isnt app either.But going on a public forum and saying you have personal info on what a douche somone is ,Which I dont believe,Bill is well known and respected in Chicago,is a blatent violation of the rules,is it not? So ,who is Lou and why can he do and say what he wants?
 
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h2o4170 said:
You mean once you highjacked his ? then attacked him until he left.Yeah this post went great.
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I didn't hijack anything -- it's called an abandoned thread after he said he wouldn't post again, even with a .45 to his head. Frankly, given the size of his ego, I think you'd need something larger for a credible threat of damage.

Lou Figueroa
 
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