What epoxy should I get?

snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I have been using loctite 60 minute epoxy, but i think i wanna try something else. I realize there are other older threads covering this, but im curious if theres any newer and better stuff out there. I was thinking about west system g-flex, or maybe the 206, but i havent decided yet. I want a good epoxy for joint work, collars, buttcaps, etc. Any suggestions or opinions? Thanks!

Joe
 
glue

i like the g-5,west system is good ,it just has to set a few days,the g-5 can be worked in some cases the same day.i know some will say that g-5 will leave a glue line,(so will west system)i don't flood the end grain with it and i use an older lathe to jack my joints together.if you don't want to see a glue line ,wood glue,but it does'nt do all that good with plastics.
 
5-minute or 60-minute epoxies have no place in collars, butt plates or A-joint imo.
What's the hurry ?

3m DP-460 get my vote.
 
I only know what experience has taught me and that is not to trust G-5. Over the years that I used the product I had a number of failures of deco-rings and butt caps coming loose and if they sometimes fail so can joints and A-joints. It wasn't a great number but even one failure is to many when there is so many other products available that you need not worry about. Even that reference that was given for West Systems site states:
"An easy to use two part “five minute epoxy” system, ideal for quick repairs and general bonding around both the boat and house. Particularly suited for spot applications to hold component parts in position whilst bonding is completed with WEST SYSTEM epoxy".

Dick
 
snipershot said:
Dude, i always boil my cues after i build them. Lol.

Joe
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Tell you what Joe, try it the old fashioned way.
Make mock-up cues with different epoxies ( they don't even have to be cues, just wood dowel joinery would be fine as long as you are close to cue specs ).
Leave them in your car for a week or so.
keep checking which ones start to buzz first or show glue gaps.
And if one stands out as showing no give, take note.
Label all identical mock-ups and write down the processes .

Grab some maple planks . 1 1/2 by 1/2 thick by 6 inches should be fine.
Glue two planks together down on the 3" mark. Let them sit for few days.
Label each one what epoxy was used.
Then after a few days, whack them apart. Look at where they broke apart. Notice if wood gave up or epoxy. It'll tell you a lot.

Mix up some epoxies. Stick em to the pan of your lathe. Leave them there for a few days. Make sure to label each one. Grab a razor blade and start slitting them. Take notice which ones seem soft and which ones seem harder.
Then hammer them. Take notice which ones crack easier or which one don't give at all.

Once you find the best one for you and by you, you can then decide.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Tell you what Joe, try it the old fashioned way.
Make mock-up cues with different epoxies ( they don't even have to be cues, just wood dowel joinery would be fine as long as you are close to cue specs ).
Leave them in your car for a week or so.
keep checking which ones start to buzz first or show glue gaps.
And if one stands out as showing no give, take note.
Label all identical mock-ups and write down the processes .

Grab some maple planks . 1 1/2 by 1/2 thick by 6 inches should be fine.
Glue two planks together down on the 3" mark. Let them sit for few days.
Label each one what epoxy was used.
Then after a few days, whack them apart. Look at where they broke apart. Notice if wood gave up or epoxy. It'll tell you a lot.

Mix up some epoxies. Stick em to the pan of your lathe. Leave them there for a few days. Make sure to label each one. Grab a razor blade and start slitting them. Take notice which ones seem soft and which ones seem harder.
Then hammer them. Take notice which ones crack easier or which one don't give at all.

Once you find the best one for you and by you, you can then decide.
Click to expand...
Damn Joey. Those are some great ideas. Ive used 5 minute, which you and Dick told me I shouldnt, so i tossed it. Ive tried the 60 minute, but it seemed like it never set up all the way. I even weighed the mix like Kim does to make sure it was perfect, but it still felt sticky after days of sitting. Ive used the BSI stuff for a few things. Ive used the west 207/105 for a clear coat. And Ive used RAKA for clear coat. I dont like any of those for joint collars, so Im gonna try some system 3, that 3m stuff you reccomended, and maybe some 206/105. Thanks for the direction man!

Joe
 
snipershot said:
Damn Joey. Those are some great ideas. Ive used 5 minute, which you and Dick told me I shouldnt, so i tossed it. Ive tried the 60 minute, but it seemed like it never set up all the way. I even weighed the mix like Kim does to make sure it was perfect, but it still felt sticky after days of sitting. Ive used the BSI stuff for a few things. Ive used the west 207/105 for a clear coat. And Ive used RAKA for clear coat. I dont like any of those for joint collars, so Im gonna try some system 3, that 3m stuff you reccomended, and maybe some 206/105. Thanks for the direction man!

Joe
Click to expand...

Joe,

I have been doing cue repair for over 9 years now serving all of the people and over 40 teams that come into my pool hall and have been using G5 for all of my ferrule work. I don't thread the tenons and only file 7 v grooves to form keyway foundations. In all of that time I have also made over 140 of my own cues, many with 2 shafts. My guess this is about 600 ferrules conservatively.

I have never, I repeat never had one of my ferrules return because it came loose. The ferrule is the acid test as it has the smallest glue aspect ratio and takes the biggest shock for a hit. Ya, think G5 might work as well for joint collars and butt caps???? Have not seen any of those fail either and believe me I have kept detail records of these types of details as it is part of my Statistical Process Control Procedures, one must evaluate things in reference to math or numbers, not how you feel or what urban legend in the cue making business is touting. Btw, G5 sets strong in 30 minutes and is not fully cured for 7 days. I always advise my players to wait over night to use a new ferrule and don't break with it for a few days.

Choosing the epoxy you use for your cues should be about the engineering and performance numbers, the interference fit dimension differential of your tenon and ID plus the foundation keyways or threads you choose. If you are doing all of your fits the same then your test data will be trustworthy. If your are sloppy in your fits, then you may see some random problems that may not be accredited to the materials themselves. Garbage in vs. garbage out type of thing. Just a thought, you have to be careful with 105 / 206 type West System products as they have a shelf life span that can get you a failure if you buy a big can. I use so much G5, I know mine is always fresh. That is a big deal for concern that I don't have to worry about. I don't recommend G5 for A-Joints or gluing points because of the thicker viscosity!!!!!!!!!

All epoxies are stronger than most woods. If your fit is right, the objects are clean, the mixture is correct and the temperatures are in the correct range, any failure should be due to spoiled epxoy, bad wood fiber area or bad cue making procedures dealt by the operator.

It is like welding, you rarely see a weld fail as it is always the area next to the weld called the transition zone. Same in bonding glue to wood. A carbon spot in the parent metal could be compared to a area of a wood piece that is weak. It does not happen too often but if it does, it don't matter which epoxy or mucilage you choose.

JMO,

Rick
 
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hobbycues said:
how do you guys feel about using devcon 2 ton epoxy???

I like the set up time and how hard it gets.
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It will leave a glue line for ferrules, so I use the Devcon 5 minute for ferrules. But for ring work I have been very happy with the Devcon Two Ton through the years. It is getting harder to find as most retail stores have replaced it with cheaper products. For the A-Joint I use West System with 206 hardener. I also like the above West System for gluing full splice and v-groove points in.
 
Since I started using G-flex, I really like It for the flexibility and strength, I have found good uses for It, but Your facings need to be real clean, and It can still show glue lines in some situations, especially where two lighter colors come together, It seems to be lesser of an issue with darker colors though. It's thicker too so needs quite a bit of clamping force to squeeze all the extra glue out of the facings.

I have used It on ferrules, but the dry time is long for something like that, so I bought some G-5 to try out for gluing those.

I really don't have a do all epoxy, I usually use several types for different things, but I generally Like to use slow curing structural epoxies for the structural parts of a cue. I guess that's kind of a no brainer, but some types do have their cons to go with the pros. One being that some tend to be thicker, and have a darker colored hardener. I usually see an obvious difference in strength though. I think I am going in the direction of west systems though, because I'm about to start getting into making My own point blanks, and I'll probably try the 206 hardener that Chris mentioned. Last time I was at west Marine I almost grabbed some, but I had a customer out in the parking lot that met me there to drop off a cue that He needed work done to, and I didn't want to keep him waiting, so I just snatched up some more G-flex and G5 then jetted for the checkout.
 
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PLEASE, consider all suggestion by everyone but do yourself a favor and take the time to actually learn about the different epoxies and glues you might be interested in using. You'll be glad you learned and understand why. Never do anything because someone else said so,
 
Michael Webb said:
PLEASE, consider all suggestion by everyone but do yourself a favor and take the time to actually learn about the different epoxies and glues you might be interested in using. You'll be glad you learned and understand why. Never do anything because someone else said so,
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Thanks Michael. Im gonna do what Joey said and test out a few kinds. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.

Joe
 
I am very surprised no one has mentioned the importance of a full mix and the materials being completely on ratio be it 1-1, 2-1, 4-1.

If your ratios and mixing are not right the material will never cure to full physical properties, you will have a good chance it will remain tacky until it picks up enough contaminent and will always give you a glue line.

The worst epoxy in the world if done right is better than the best epoxy in the world done wrong.
 
Newton said:
For ferrules and rings I have used Tiger Products 30min epoxy.
I normally tap some hot wather in the sinc and let them enjoy them self there for a while, then mix them up and apply. Have so far not lost a ferrule or shaft collar.

For structual work I have just got West system 105/206.

Here is a link to what Joey want you to do ;) (I have not done this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrHue6QrnAk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

K
Click to expand...

Thanks for the video. Im excited about testing some out myself.

Joe
 
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