What exactly is "shortstop" speed?

inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I keep reading this in the forums but am not sure what it means? Can someone clarify how a shortstop compares to a pro and amateur?

Is it somewhere in-between?
 
A shortstop is a player who plays below a top pro and better than say an "A" class of a player. Many shortstops are fierce gamblers and have alot of heart and are capable of playing really great for the cash. They are at a point in their pool career that if they never play like a top pro or become one, they are as close as possible at the point of being labled a "shortstop". There are many good "shortstop" players and some play better than others. Alot of our top pros were once considered "shortstop" and then made the grade and advanced to a top pro tier. IMO of course.
 
if you put a shortstop between a A player and a champion, here's what i noticed, if your interpetation of a shortstop is different than i just said stop reading this.

One thing I have noticed over the years, and learned ALOT more about this in the past year running around with some champions, I noticed is that Shortstop's are in a spot to book more action and have the best of it more often(because when you play that speed you can catch a gear and beat anyone) where a solid A player might not catch that winning gear when he needs to.

Top Pro's have a tough time finding action because everyone wants to much weight and when do they give it up they cant ever miss a ball, safety etc. Its all but impossible to get action that makes sence, because everyone just wants too much weight, they over rate the pro's speed or so it seems. There is some champions playing each other in the chalenge matches, its great to see SVB and Alex playing often. I asked SVB to play he laughed at me-litterly, I wasnt upset, he is my friend but he knows I need the world and he dosent want to bother with the game. Efren offered me the 6 playing 9ball-anyone want to stake me??

Short stops typically arnt over rated thus have a easier chance of action. I think unless you want to follow the tournment trail being a shortstop is the best speed for action.

sorry for the long post i'm practicing writing long things, I want to write a book-not about pool, it will mention pool, and yes I will have a profesional spell checker fix that and a grammer champion too.:)
 
I think this is spot on

Fatboy said:
if you put a shortstop between a A player and a champion, here's what i noticed, if your interpetation of a shortstop is different than i just said stop reading this.

One thing I have noticed over the years, and learned ALOT more about this in the past year running around with some champions, I noticed is that Shortstop's are in a spot to book more action and have the best of it more often(because when you play that speed you can catch a gear and beat anyone) where a solid A player might not catch that winning gear when he needs to.

Top Pro's have a tough time finding action because everyone wants to much weight and when do they give it up they cant ever miss a ball, safety etc. Its all but impossible to get action that makes sence, because everyone just wants too much weight, they over rate the pro's speed or so it seems. There is some champions playing each other in the chalenge matches, its great to see SVB and Alex playing often. I asked SVB to play he laughed at me-litterly, I wasnt upset, he is my friend but he knows I need the world and he dosent want to bother with the game. Efren offered me the 6 playing 9ball-anyone want to stake me??

Short stops typically arnt over rated thus have a easier chance of action. I think unless you want to follow the tournment trail being a shortstop is the best speed for action.

sorry for the long post i'm practicing writing long things, I want to write a book-not about pool, it will mention pool, and yes I will have a profesional spell checker fix that and a grammer champion too.:)
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Fatboy,

I think you nailed it with this post and particularly with the line I highlighted. A shortstop may not be a world beater every day but he can beat anyone in the world on a given day playing even. A champion usually has to give up a small spot to get him in a game and they often find themselves in fierce battles with shortstops.

Shortstops are tough tough players in their local pond and may make waves on the national scene now and then but when that happens they are in danger of becoming champions. As you mentioned, shortstops can often make more money gambling than champions. A savvy shortstop can do very well on the road.

Hu
 
"You know you're a shortstop when the bangers think you are good enough to
be a pro, while the pros think you are but a banger" ---> Roy "The Fish" Steffensen
 
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gopi-1 said:
"You know you're a shortstop when the bangers think you are good even to
be a pro, while the pros think you are a banger" ---> Roy "The Fish" Steffensen
Click to expand...

LOL

Btw: It's "D'Fish" ;)
 
My understand is a shortstop" is like the best local player in large metropolitian area, or just under pro level.
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In the Southeast, a shortstop plays between a strong B+ and an A player.

Southpaw
 
ShootingArts said:
Fatboy,

I think you nailed it with this post and particularly with the line I highlighted. A shortstop may not be a world beater every day but he can beat anyone in the world on a given day playing even. A champion usually has to give up a small spot to get him in a game and they often find themselves in fierce battles with shortstops.

Shortstops are tough tough players in their local pond and may make waves on the national scene now and then but when that happens they are in danger of becoming champions. As you mentioned, shortstops can often make more money gambling than champions. A savvy shortstop can do very well on the road.

Hu
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thanks for the nice words, sometime back someone on here said "your a recreational B player and really dont understand much about action, and gambling". He said that because I said Jonh Morra bit off more than he could chew when he played Bergman for $10,000, I said Morra should start at $500 sets and work his way up. Whats funny is Morra was at my house the other day and we talked about it-he said that I was dead right about that and he wasnt comfortable there too and with the bet, I read him like a book only because I have been in that spot too. I really like Morra, He plays better than I ever will unless something big happens to me, like prayer working.

It amazes me how fast people are to judge other people online when they dont know them, what I do know is there are alot more people on this site that are a hell of alot smarter than me, but I never make a post when I'm not 100% sure about what I'm talking about.
 
Southpaw said:
In the Southeast, a shortstop plays between a strong B+ and an A player.

Southpaw
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funny how that works in Vegas and LA its between a champion and a A+ player, I need to move to the South East cause when i'm playing thats about where I fit in and I like the title. :D
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
?

Define B+ and an A player?
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In this area, I would say that Bruce Berrong is considered an A player and Lane Simons is a good B+. I can name a dozen players in between these 2 and around here they are considered shortstop speed. Southpaw rounds out the field as a solid D+ :)

Southpaw
 
not everywhere!

Southpaw said:
In the Southeast, a shortstop plays between a strong B+ and an A player.

Southpaw
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That's not everywhere in the southeast! In Florida, a shortstop is considered above an A player, but below a champion. Shortstops are that guy who can go anywhere and match up, or do good in a tournament, but needs some weight to play a champion!
They would be barred from any Amateur tournaments whereas an A player would be the better players in the amateur tournaments. JMHO
Jeremy
( I would consider myself an A player, but would need weight off shortstops in the area, like Justin Hall, David Grossman, Nathan Rose etc.)
 
Southpaw said:
In the Southeast, a shortstop plays between a strong B+ and an A player.

Southpaw
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Southpaw,

No offense, but we've been through this before. I am from the Southeast, and no, most people do not consider a shortstop to be between a strong B+ and an A player.

In fact, I did a search of all the "shortstop definition" threads out there, and compiled a partial list of all the people who believe a shortstop is the same as you defined.

OVERWHELMINGLY, (aproximately 95%..) people agreed that a shortstop is EXACTLY as defined by instroke75 in the post right before this one.

I think you have been misled as to what "most" people believe a shortstop to be. Either that, or you play in a pool hall where somehow, the definition got warped by some folks somewhat "out of the loop".

A shortstop is better than an A player, but not a champion, and not particularly close to pro speed.

Buddy Hall, Billy Incardona, and Grady Matthews have all said on tape that a shortstop is expected to get maybe 3-4 games in a race to 9 against a champion. This is very similar to what "A" players commonly get to when they play someone like Archer in a regional event.

If they are playing well, and the pockets are forgiving. :D

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
Southpaw,

No offense, but we've been through this before. I am from the Southeast, and no, most people do not consider a shortstop to be between a strong B+ and an A player.

In fact, I did a search of all the "shortstop definition" threads out there, and compiled a partial list of all the people who believe a shortstop is the same as you defined.

OVERWHELMINGLY, (aproximately 95%..) people agreed that a shortstop is EXACTLY as defined by instroke75 in the post right before this one.

I think you have been misled as to what "most" people believe a shortstop to be. Either that, or you play in a pool hall where somehow, the definition got warped by some folks somewhat "out of the loop".

A shortstop is better than an A player, but not a champion, and not particularly close to pro speed.

Buddy Hall, Billy Incardona, and Grady Matthews have all said on tape that a shortstop is expected to get maybe 3-4 games in a race to 9 against a champion. This is very similar to what "A" players commonly get to when they play someone like Archer in a regional event.

If they are playing well, and the pockets are forgiving. :D

Russ
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Well the players that have made their living on the road around here have gone out looking for shortstops because they usually play just good enough to get beat.... A really good example of a shortstop would be Brim-cat in Mobile..

Southpaw
 
Speaking of titles . . .

Fatboy said:
funny how that works in Vegas and LA its between a champion and a A+ player, I need to move to the South East cause when i'm playing thats about where I fit in and I like the title. :D
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I heard someone from Vegas call you the Nevada Shortstroke King. I can't remember if it was a female or a pool player and which it was calling you that could make a major difference in meaning! Of course maybe it was a female pool player in which case the comment would be totally ambiguous. :D

Hu
 
instroke75 said:
That's not everywhere in the southeast! In Florida, a shortstop is considered above an A player, but below a champion. Shortstops are that guy who can go anywhere and match up, or do good in a tournament, but needs some weight to play a champion!
They would be barred from any Amateur tournaments whereas an A player would be the better players in the amateur tournaments. JMHO
Jeremy
( I would consider myself an A player, but would need weight off shortstops in the area, like Justin Hall, David Grossman, Nathan Rose etc.)
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Jeremy, I agree.

An easy way to look at it is this. See if you agree.

"B" level players do well in local nightly tournaments. Favored to get in the money. Will almost always finish below A players and above in these. They win local nightly tournaments more because opponents give them one too many chances, rather than because they forcibly win.

"A" players do well in smaller geographic area tournaments, like perhaps medium population cities/counties. Think "local two day weekend bar tournaments". Still, not any one A player is favored to win the tourney. In local nightly tournaments of the $70-$120, usually dominates. May be forced to sit out for weeks if he/she wins too often.

"Shortstop" players win local nightly tournaments at will, unless they are races to 1. :D Favored to win local two day weekend tourneys every time they step in the box. They do well in smaller regional (multiple county) tournaments. Are capable of beating regional pros if they catch a stroke, but still big dogs to Champions.

"Regional Pros". Consistent winners at all local levels. At smaller regional tournaments, they also dominate, rarely losing a tournament, and when they do, it is to another regional pro. Think "Donny Mills" in Florida. HillBilly Bryant. Glenn Atwell in WA. These guys put a beating on some champions in the tournaments as well. Could be a champion if they had the time to practice as much as Deuel, Archer, etc.. At this level, only about 5 or 6 people have a realistic chance of winning big regional events. It's always the same people winning.

"Champions". Archer, Deuel, Reyes, Alcano, etc. These guys destroy anyone who does not regularly compete in the pro events. The only reason regional pros might have a better win percentage against them locally, is because the regional pros do not travel, and are very accustomed to local playing conditions. Regional pros want no part of gambling with champions.

What do you think?

Russ
 
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