If the guy had an inclination to gamble I suspect you missed an opportunity.
Man, I've trying to save up money to get one of those. Does it have a screw on tip? I'm still playing with this old wood cue with the glue on tip.
What have people been flat out wrong about?
- Thread starter XxMerlinxX
- Start date
If the guy had an inclination to gamble I suspect you missed an opportunity.
Man, I've trying to save up money to get one of those. Does it have a screw on tip? I'm still playing with this old wood cue with the glue on tip.
Maybe he thought he was playing with a "Wal-abushka".
My personal favorite is: "This tip draws better than that tip!"
Trust me...it ain't the tip! LOL
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I thought it was "This shaft draws better than that shaft."
I read somewhere that Dan McGoorty and Ralph Greenleaf couldn't play unless they were liquored up. So, its not enough to imitate their stroke, but drinking habits as well.
Well, according to Wikipedia, Ralph won 20 World Championships, not many of them drunk, I think. Don't think that number is right, but.....
Danny McGoorty played some pretty good billiards after he sobered up
Thanks for the response Scott.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. While I'm not a professional, I am an "A" level player and I have a very good stroke. The statement you made doesn't concern "feel". You basically stated that all tips will transfer english and hold chaulk the same. If that were true there would be a lot of pissed off players that spent $40, $50, or more for a Moori etc. when they could have received the same results with a $10 LePro. I certainly notice a difference between tips and the amount of action I get with different one's. In fact, I often notice a difference in feel going from one tip to another in the same brand.
This may be an exaggerated example but consider this....
If you compare a phenolic tip like that used on some break/jump cues to a standard leather tip (regardless of whether it's layered or not) you are not going to be able to play too far off center on the cue ball without a miscue. They do not hold chaulk as well as a standard leather tip or create as much action.
So to give a blanket statement that all tips play the same just doesn't make any sense.
I would be interested in hearing other's opinions as well on this topic.
To be fair, Scott only said that a professional quality stroke could move a CB any way they wanted to with any "normal" tip. By this I'm assuming he was ruling out Phenolic. However, he then went on to say that all leather tips hold chalk the same and all produce the same amount of action on the CB. I think this is definitely not true, as a lot of people can tell the difference between tips. Can the same amount of action on the CB be made with different tips? Probably, but one tip may require more effort to make as much action when compared to another tip. Do they all hold chalk the same? Again, I'd have to say no, but this can also be due to good or poor tip preperation. Just my two cents.
People put a lot more stock into tips than they realize. A tip is a tip is a tip. Some people like apples...some oranges...some bananas...they are all fruit, taste good, and are good for you. ANY mainstream tip, layered or not, will perform well (and hold chalk), in the hands of an expert.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I'm not sure we're on the same page here Scott....
I've gone back and read your comment that I posted about.
I went back and re-read the comment that you posted about. Nothing in either one said anything about 'Once upon a time'.
I apologize if you felt I was attacking you. I was not. I read your statement, and felt that it was not correct. So I went and looked it up. As not to have mis-information, I wanted to make sure it was corrected.
Here is the post that you commented on:
Here is your post, about item number 4
If I am missing something, please enlighten me.
Again.. I apologize if you saw this as an affront to you. It was not meant so.
I've gone back and read your comment that I posted about.
I went back and re-read the comment that you posted about. Nothing in either one said anything about 'Once upon a time'.
I apologize if you felt I was attacking you. I was not. I read your statement, and felt that it was not correct. So I went and looked it up. As not to have mis-information, I wanted to make sure it was corrected.
Here is the post that you commented on:
Here is your post, about item number 4
If I am missing something, please enlighten me.
Again.. I apologize if you saw this as an affront to you. It was not meant so.
Ponytail...No, I didn't take offense at your correction. The rule about the tip being live, was used for many years, and was included in the published BCA rules. Your statement about the world standardized rules is correct, which is the most "up to date" set of rules.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I agree with your statement 100% and thought the same thing reading Scott's input to the thread. But I must say that you're getting screwed if you pay more than a couple of bucks for a LePro.
Paul
those are the key words. I have winessed less than expert players be able to apply more spin to the cue ball by using a different tip. I watched a guy switch from triangle to elk master, and he was able to draw the ball better than I had ever seen. I know it doesnt add skill, but it does add ability. Experts or pros can play with almost anything, but us mortals can and do improve our game without improving our strokes. just a thought......
Joe
Bar rules
A bar hustle that I have had experience with, is the the eight-ball "last pocket" play. Nobody says anything about last pocket until I am dead on the eight and then suddenly this is "how we play here" local rule pops up.
Another lesson I have learned is that bar rules are dictated by tush hogs and even if you win.....you lose....unless you are a member of Hells Angels MC and they are waiting outside.
A bar hustle that I have had experience with, is the the eight-ball "last pocket" play. Nobody says anything about last pocket until I am dead on the eight and then suddenly this is "how we play here" local rule pops up.
Another lesson I have learned is that bar rules are dictated by tush hogs and even if you win.....you lose....unless you are a member of Hells Angels MC and they are waiting outside.
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what the rule is that you're referring to, as I've never heard of "last pocket" before.
WHAT? you mean that aint true?Thats always the excuse i give the wifey when i want a new cue
I hate when people tell me, you need a heavier stick.
Another one is when the guy was breaking next to me, his buddy said:
"Hey, you better do a good break!" -guy A
"I will, I need to put some more weight behind this break!" - Guy B
and guy B go and gets a heavier cue..... I was looking amused, while thinking Larry Nevel would smash the heck out of the rack with that same cue.
The guy telling the girl, "If you need to bank this..." or "If you want to shoot this shot" which 98.95% that he is going to miss lol.
Chino
Another one is when the guy was breaking next to me, his buddy said:
"Hey, you better do a good break!" -guy A
"I will, I need to put some more weight behind this break!" - Guy B
and guy B go and gets a heavier cue..... I was looking amused, while thinking Larry Nevel would smash the heck out of the rack with that same cue.
The guy telling the girl, "If you need to bank this..." or "If you want to shoot this shot" which 98.95% that he is going to miss lol.
Chino
Tips vs strokes (opinions, bias, and coloring)
Joe:
That's a very good highlighted point.
Folks:
Please keep in mind the rationale for Scott's points; Scott is in the *business* of selling strokes (or more appropriately termed, stroke instruction). It is his business to downplay the role (or, people's perceptions) tips play in the action departed upon the cue ball. I for one do not agree "a tip is tip is a tip" but I do understand the basic rationale Scott is trying to get across -- a proper stroke has much more to do with the action departed upon the cue ball than a tip does. With this I soundly concur. However, there are reasons why there are so many different brands / types / hardness/softness / layered/unlayered / etc. of tips out there -- they do have distinct properties and feel to them.
Like Monstermash, I am also an "A"-level player (e.g. 133-ball high run in straight pool, 7-pack high run in 9-ball) and I certainly do *NOT* agree that "a tip is a tip is a tip." Although I can get two table-lengths of draw with even a house cue, I much prefer a certain type of tip (ElkMaster for me) because of the "feel" it gives me when the cue ball is struck. I personally don't like layered tips (even "Medium" ones) because they feel like I'm hitting the cue ball with a piece of concrete -- and it sounds that way, too! And yes, if someone were to blindfold me, hand me a cue, I line myself up on a table, and someone were to place a cue ball in front of my cue, I *can* tell the difference when I stroke through the cue ball. (I actually use this type of test when I'm trying out cues, so as to avoid "eye candy love" aesthetics interfering with my unbiased opinion on how a cue "hits.")
Anyway, keep in mind these are all opinions; opinions can (and do!) emanate from one's own agenda, such as pool school. Well, "agenda" may be a poor choice of word (apologies to Scott); let me use the word "coloring" instead.
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Joe:
That's a very good highlighted point.
Folks:
Please keep in mind the rationale for Scott's points; Scott is in the *business* of selling strokes (or more appropriately termed, stroke instruction). It is his business to downplay the role (or, people's perceptions) tips play in the action departed upon the cue ball. I for one do not agree "a tip is tip is a tip" but I do understand the basic rationale Scott is trying to get across -- a proper stroke has much more to do with the action departed upon the cue ball than a tip does. With this I soundly concur. However, there are reasons why there are so many different brands / types / hardness/softness / layered/unlayered / etc. of tips out there -- they do have distinct properties and feel to them.
Like Monstermash, I am also an "A"-level player (e.g. 133-ball high run in straight pool, 7-pack high run in 9-ball) and I certainly do *NOT* agree that "a tip is a tip is a tip." Although I can get two table-lengths of draw with even a house cue, I much prefer a certain type of tip (ElkMaster for me) because of the "feel" it gives me when the cue ball is struck. I personally don't like layered tips (even "Medium" ones) because they feel like I'm hitting the cue ball with a piece of concrete -- and it sounds that way, too! And yes, if someone were to blindfold me, hand me a cue, I line myself up on a table, and someone were to place a cue ball in front of my cue, I *can* tell the difference when I stroke through the cue ball. (I actually use this type of test when I'm trying out cues, so as to avoid "eye candy love" aesthetics interfering with my unbiased opinion on how a cue "hits.")
Anyway, keep in mind these are all opinions; opinions can (and do!) emanate from one's own agenda, such as pool school. Well, "agenda" may be a poor choice of word (apologies to Scott); let me use the word "coloring" instead.
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Joe:
Folks:
Please keep in mind the rationale for Scott's points; Scott is in the *business* of selling strokes (or more appropriately termed, stroke instruction). It is his business to downplay the role (or, people's perceptions) tips play in the action departed upon the cue ball. I for one do not agree "a tip is tip is a tip" but I do understand the basic rationale Scott is trying to get across -- a proper stroke has much more to do with the action departed upon the cue ball than a tip does. With this I soundly concur. However, there are reasons why there are so many different brands / types / hardness/softness / layered/unlayered / etc. of tips out there -- they do have distinct properties and feel to them.
Like Monstermash, I am also an "A"-level player (e.g. 133-ball high run in straight pool, 7-pack high run in 9-ball) and I certainly do *NOT* agree that "a tip is a tip is a tip." Although I can get two table-lengths of draw with even a house cue, I much prefer a certain type of tip (ElkMaster for me) because of the "feel" it gives me when the cue ball is struck. I personally don't like layered tips (even "Medium" ones) because they feel like I'm hitting the cue ball with a piece of concrete -- and it sounds that way, too! And yes, if someone were to blindfold me, hand me a cue, I line myself up on a table, and someone were to place a cue ball in front of my cue, I *can* tell the difference when I stroke through the cue ball. (I actually use this type of test when I'm trying out cues, so as to avoid "eye candy love" aesthetics interfering with my unbiased opinion on how a cue "hits.")
Anyway, keep in mind these are all opinions; opinions can (and do!) emanate from one's own agenda, such as pool school. Well, "agenda" may be a poor choice of word (apologies to Scott); let me use the word "coloring" instead.
Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Well, Sean, I don't have your high run in straight pool but we're right there with the 7 racks of 9-ball. I'm far from being a banger and my opinion differs from yours in that, as you said, you didn't like the feel of a certain tip. In my personal opinion, just that little mental block could be enough to throw your game off. I fully understand, man. I get on a table that I don't like the speed or the reaction off the cushions and I'm done for because I focus on that kind of crap and it throws me off.
Personally, I don't think anyone can do more with a Moori than they can with a Triangle or Elkmaster or whatever. I would say that you're not going to get more draw with one tip over another......unless you want to take it down to the shape/radius of the tip. Other than that I have to agree with Scott, it's in the stroke.
MULLY
Mully:
I didn't say that one can get more draw with a certain type of tip -- I think you took something out of my post that I didn't write. In fact, I actually concur with both Scott and yourself that the stroke has more to do with this than the tip does. What I *did* say, was that "a tip is not a tip is not a tip" (the converse being a very poor generalization on the part of the person who posted it). It is all about feel, and personal preference. There's a reason why so many different types of tips exist. As for things "getting in my head" -- sure, I admit, there are certain things that "bug" me -- that is part of the "mental game," correct? But a tip getting in my way of good performance? No way. I've put together 80-ball runs in straight pool with a house cue. I've blistered opponents in 9-ball sets with, again, a house cue. I've learned to adapt to certain types of equipment and try not to let my "preference" get in the way. But yes, given the opportunity to leverage my preference so that my "comfort factor" helps me perform to the very best of my ability, sure, I'll leverage it, and use my own cue with my own preferred make/model of tip.
It's like with anything -- if it feels "foreign" to you, some of your concentration will be diverted to the new look/feel, and not to the shot at hand. (Although some people seem to benefit by trying something new -- seems to have the opposite effect by getting them to focus on the fundamentals, since the new look/feel is right smack dab there in the fundamentals.)
Anyway, I think we agree in more ways than you think; the only problem was you inferred something in my post that I simply did not say, which was whether a certain tip will give you more draw. My point was feel, not draw. And I soundly concurred with Scott's point about "more to do with the stroke than the tip."
Hope that helps clarify things,
-Sean
I didn't say that one can get more draw with a certain type of tip -- I think you took something out of my post that I didn't write. In fact, I actually concur with both Scott and yourself that the stroke has more to do with this than the tip does. What I *did* say, was that "a tip is not a tip is not a tip" (the converse being a very poor generalization on the part of the person who posted it). It is all about feel, and personal preference. There's a reason why so many different types of tips exist. As for things "getting in my head" -- sure, I admit, there are certain things that "bug" me -- that is part of the "mental game," correct? But a tip getting in my way of good performance? No way. I've put together 80-ball runs in straight pool with a house cue. I've blistered opponents in 9-ball sets with, again, a house cue. I've learned to adapt to certain types of equipment and try not to let my "preference" get in the way. But yes, given the opportunity to leverage my preference so that my "comfort factor" helps me perform to the very best of my ability, sure, I'll leverage it, and use my own cue with my own preferred make/model of tip.
It's like with anything -- if it feels "foreign" to you, some of your concentration will be diverted to the new look/feel, and not to the shot at hand. (Although some people seem to benefit by trying something new -- seems to have the opposite effect by getting them to focus on the fundamentals, since the new look/feel is right smack dab there in the fundamentals.)
Anyway, I think we agree in more ways than you think; the only problem was you inferred something in my post that I simply did not say, which was whether a certain tip will give you more draw. My point was feel, not draw. And I soundly concurred with Scott's point about "more to do with the stroke than the tip."
Hope that helps clarify things,
-Sean