What I believe is the most pure form of pool

[JD_Hogg]

How do you play this game?

 

[BumpnRun]

CJ:

1. Virtually all forms of Rotation unfortunately have slop bolted to their hip. In fact, *any* rotation game -- including 10-ball (which was specifically resurrected by the WPA to address the slop issue) -- is played with Texas Express / slop rules. (10-ball, in some parts of the country, is actually played T.E. -- and on *bar tables* no less.) There is not one version of Rotation game where it's universally understood to be played with call-shot rules. You'll always find someone, somewhere, playing that very same rotation game with slop rules. Courteous opponents will raise their hand to you in apology if they slop a ball in (or make it in a pocket other than the one intended), but they still maintain control of the table.

2. Non-rotation games, like bank pool, 14.1, and to a mostly-applicable extent, 8-ball ("mostly applicable" to mean the rest of the world, vs. what the APA leagues play 8-ball), are played call-shot.

3. Bank pool has the additional caveat that the shot must go in "clean" -- meaning, the banked ball cannot carom off of a ball into a pocket, or be combo'ed.


-Sean

It's always been my understanding that 'called shot' was reserved for games where caroms were required to be called in addition to the pocket, whereas, 'called pocket' only required the pocket to be called, regardless of how it got there. I suppose Banks would be considered called shot, even though caroms aren't permitted, as you have to call the number of banks. What say you?

 

[alphadog]

This is a subject I have been thinking about much as of late. I believe that full rack bank is # 1 for the following reasons - every ball must go clean and their is not much of any kind of politics with the rack (as in short Oorack bank). The two other games are the 14.1 challenge and the one pocket challenge, unfortunatley as I have learned if you compete against another opponent in either of these two disciplines the rack mechanics can be and usually are a major factor on the outcome of match play. Take example the 14.1 tournament match play, sometimes it is difficult to get the rack frozen due to conditions, which means at a high level of play the player who wins the lag is a strong favorite to get the first offensive shot. Even if the rack has been tapped after a few matches the rack can be changed with a little help, where as in the 14.1 challenge where the player receives say ten ball in hand break shots the rack does not really matter too much. Of course three cushion is the best game of all in my opinion, the rack mechanics probably do not like three cushion billiards or the 14.1 challenge in my view. Any thoughts?

rack your own1hole! Combines 14.1 and banks,and advanced play inckudes3cushion..
How bout the pm I sent you?

 

[BumpnRun]

There is no luck involved and the rack is irrelevant.

This is the only part of your post that I don't agree with. The rack may be irrelevant but, I believe ALL games have some degree of luck. In Banks, there will be times where you are cinching a bank, if that isn't an oxymoron, with little idea of where the cue ball will end up.

I suppose some would play ultra-conservative, but that defies the essence of Banks IMO.

 

[EasyEJL]

How do you play this game?

http://www.onepocket.org/BankPoolRules.htm

 

[JolietJames]

I agree with TATE. Banks IS a specialty game. In most every other game on a pool table a bank is attempted only when the player fails to get shape. For someone to practice and play only one type of shot seems like a speciality to me. imho

 

[JD_Hogg]

http://www.onepocket.org/BankPoolRules.htm

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[sfleinen]

It's always been my understanding that 'called shot' was reserved for games where caroms were required to be called in addition to the pocket, whereas, 'called pocket' only required the pocket to be called, regardless of how it got there. I suppose Banks would be considered called shot, even though caroms aren't permitted, as you have to call the number of banks. What say you?

The problem is that the WPA doesn't use that "call pocket" phraseology. They use "call shot" as seen here:

http://wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=116&pagetype=rules#1.6
http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#9.5
http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#4.5

The type of situation you describe (or are perhaps misappropriating "call shot" for) is bar pool, where you have to call every little contact both the cue ball and the object ball make before being pocketed. I think most of us use the term "call everything" or something along those lines.

Thoughts?
-Sean

 

[Paul8ball]

I will rephrase my statement to say that banks has less luck than most any other game. If you live in Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio or Chicago then banks is considered a mainstream game The rest of the country just hasn't caught up to us yet. Lol.

We have had 9 Ball Banks as an event at the Derby City Classic for the past 13 years. We have averaged between 350 and 450 players per tournament. I think those are pretty impressive numbers for a game that is not to considered to be mainstream. I have also noticed a dramatic improvement in the bank tournament play at the Derby over the past 13 years. In the first 3 to 5 years the average match times were around 1 1/2 hours. Today it is around 45 minutes. So, the players have definitely improved over the years.

 

[DrOnePocket]

This is a subject I have been thinking about much as of late. I believe that full rack bank is # 1 for the following reasons - every ball must go clean and their is not much of any kind of politics with the rack (as in short rack bank). The two other games are the 14.1 challenge and the one pocket challenge, unfortunatley as I have learned if you compete against another opponent in either of these two disciplines the rack mechanics can be and usually are a major factor on the outcome of match play. Take example the 14.1 tournament match play, sometimes it is difficult to get the rack frozen due to conditions, which means at a high level of play the player who wins the lag is a strong favorite to get the first offensive shot. Even if the rack has been tapped after a few matches the rack can be changed with a little help, where as in the 14.1 challenge where the player receives say ten ball in hand break shots the rack does not really matter too much. Of course three cushion is the best game of all in my opinion, the rack mechanics probably do not like three cushion billiards or the 14.1 challenge in my view. Any thoughts?

The problem with your logic is that it doesn't make any sense. The most common shot in pool is a cut shot, so choosing a game that doesn't allow anything but banks is ridiculous.

One Pocket is clearly the truest test of skills on a pool table. It involves something from every game plus more.

 

[8pack]

The problem with your logic is that it doesn't make any sense. The most common shot in pool is a cut shot, so choosing a game that doesn't allow anything but banks is ridiculous.

One Pocket is clearly the truest test of skills on a pool table. It involves something from every game plus more.

I agree .Not sure what Danny ment by pure.It sounds like he's talking about a game that one cant take advantage of.

 

[sfleinen]

The problem with your logic is that it doesn't make any sense. The most common shot in pool is a cut shot, so choosing a game that doesn't allow anything but banks is ridiculous.

One Pocket is clearly the truest test of skills on a pool table. It involves something from every game plus more.

I agree .Not sure what Danny ment by pure.It sounds like he's talking about a game that one cant advantage of.

I agree as well. If by "pure," he meant an incorruptible game, or one where the shots have to go exactly as called with no margin for "slop" whatsoever, that's one thing -- bank pool has that in spades.

But in terms of exercising all aspects of skill in pocket billiards -- precision cueball control (numero uno), pocketing, banking, combinations, caroms, tickies, as well as 3-cushion skills -- One Pocket is *the* game that exercises them all.

About the only thing that neither one pocket, bank pool, or even rotation pool exercise, is the skill of pattern/pocketing consistency over the long haul. 14.1 is the only game that exercises that. If you miss in 14.1, it is more dire of a mistake than in any other game. In 14.1, you live and die by your pocketing consistency -- miss, and in the case of playing a very strong player, you're likely to take your seat until the end of the match.

-Sean

 

[Yoda4962]

NO, sorry, but 14.1 IS the championship game...

It only seems to easy because you are too good at it !!!!

Pool players know that straight pool is the highest challenge of their talents. We all know this to be true, trust your feelings luke !!!! lol

 

[Pushout]

The problem is that the WPA doesn't use that "call pocket" phraseology. They use "call shot" as seen here:

http://wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=116&pagetype=rules#1.6
http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#9.5
http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#4.5

The type of situation you describe (or are perhaps misappropriating "call shot" for) is bar pool, where you have to call every little contact both the cue ball and the object ball make before being pocketed. I think most of us use the term "call everything" or something along those lines.

Thoughts?
-Sean

That's been pretty much my understanding of "call shot" since the early '70s.

 

[DrOnePocket]

Maybe I read his post wrong. I stand by my statement anyway even if it is off subject

 

[Dan Harriman]

Bank goodness

There needs to be one game that is easy to watch and film, in Chicago I played a bank tournament race to 23 was the format. It came down to the final bank and it was a real nail-biter. An over head camera and two players who bank real well (not a super tight table) is where it's at, educational commentators who are colorful would not hurt either. Part of the confusion in eight ball is with all the rules, a ball must go clean or did he call it off of that ball. Bank pool eliminates all of this, the object ball your banking must go clean (pure). Even in the game of 14.1 there are times when a player is able to widen the target of the pocket by having an option to play the object ball off another that is near the intended pocket, to the average joe or joline this does not make sense and never will. Rotation simply cannot grab a viewers attention the way bank pool can with an overhead camera - as a matter of fact if the players are playing well and having fun ie (marketed correctly) it's not even close. Again bank pool with an overhead cam and two colorful players plus the right commentators in my view is much easier on the eyes. The game is pure and I am surprised that none has really tried to promote this as again it is a real attention getter and if marketed correctly in time would replace the norm of what they have been doing. In a race to 23 on the right equip. it would be nothing to see two strong players run a ten or twelve.

Just a thought.

 

[sjm]

Skills that are largely missing from full rack banks are thin cuts, carom shots played intentionally, break shots, combination shots, and multi-rail cue ball position play. There are quite a few shots played with minimal attention played to position. While the two way shot aspect of bank pool is of comparable complexity to that of one pocket, the defensive play in bank pool requires a bit less speed control than what is required in one pocket, straight pool, and rotation games.

Bank pool players need to have great skills and they always put on a great show, but I think that straight pool and one pocket are better tests of pure skills over the green felt.

Finally, I do not agree that the break doesn't matter in bank pool. Having the first shot is a big deal at the highest level, and there is ample motivation to fix the rack for those inclined to do so. At high level, the game in which the break shot matters the least is definitely straight pool.

Full rack banks is a beautiful game and a serious test of pool, but I'd have to disagree that it's a more pure test of skill than the other games.

 

[Dan Harriman]

I rspectfully disagree

Skills that are largely missing from full rack banks are thin cuts, carom shots played intentionally, break shots, combination shots, and multi-rail cue ball position play. There are quite a few shots played with minimal attention played to position. While the two way shot aspect of bank pool is of comparable complexity to that of one pocket, the defensive play in bank pool requires a bit less speed control than what is required in one pocket, straight pool, and rotation games.

Bank pool players need to have great skills and they always put on a great show, but I think that straight pool and one pocket are better tests of pure skills over the green felt.

Finally, I do not agree that the break doesn't matter in bank pool. Having the first shot is a big deal at the highest level, and there is ample motivation to fix the rack for those inclined to do so. At high level, the game in which the break shot matters the least is definitely straight pool.

Full rack banks is a beautiful game and a serious test of pool, but I'd have to disagree that it's a more pure test of skill than the other games.

There are many banks that must be hit thin in order to make, plus combinations make the game more difficult to film. I am talking about what I think would be marketable from a filming standpoint.I agreet that position and some facets of the game as we know it would be lessoned to a certain degree. There is nothing much more colorful than that watching Glen Rogers dance around banking the lights out like a smooth banking machine ( just an example). A format in which both players would not play safe too much would bring out more offensive shots.

 

[AtLarge]

... At high level, the game in which the break shot matters the least is definitely straight pool. ...

But when a player takes the opening break shot in 14.1 and never again gets to participate in the game, he probably doesn't feel that way.

 

[Elwood]

But when a player takes the opening break shot in 14.1 and never again gets to participate in the game, he probably doesn't feel that way.

Then the player that won the break didn't execute a good break shot. If said player does break properly, they will come to the table again...