What if they had a raffle...

In all honesty, in my own experience, I have often thought it would be great to be able to sell through a raffle, however because it is well documented in every state as only legal for charitable benefit to one degree or another, I am jealous of those who right out in the open will break the law for everyone to see. I just can't bring myself to doing it. If I raffle something, you can bet the proceeds are going to a bonafide charity. I am not pretending I never bend or breakthe law, just not so flagrantly where it is out there for the world to see. I think that is what is upsetting to others like me. They dislike the actions of others who are so brazen to put it out in plain public view almost daring to get busted and possibly bring some harm to AZB.

Why doesn't someone start raffle.com and see how long it takes the authorities to come knocking.

Not my cup of tea.
 
Last edited:
eezbank said:
i wonder if these guys get upset at the girls that sell raffle tickets at the tournaments for the vendors. they walk around with a huge roll of tickets and sell them at $10 a pop out at the riviera for the bca and vnea tournaments.

i played montos last raffle for the southwest cue. he was attacked repeatedly about the amount he would take in from the raffle because some posters/mbers felt the amount taken in far exceeded the value of the cue. i asked indyQ to send me a price list for the southwests he had in stock. they range from low to mid 3000.
Click to expand...

TWO THINGS.....

THE GIRLS SELLING THOSE TICKETS ARE HOT......AND BOOBS SELL ANYTHING.

SECOND, YOU SHOULDN'T USE INDYQ AS A PRICE GUIDE FOR ANYTHING. THE LAST SW PRICE I HEARD FROM HIM, ALMOST MADE ME FALL OFF MY CHAIR.
 
our_auctionguy said:
In all honesty, in my own experience, I have often thought it would be great to be able to sell through a raffle, however because it is well documented in every state as only legal for charitable benefit to one degree or another, I am jealous of those who right out in the open will break the law for everyone to see. I just can't bring myself to doing it. If I raffle something, you can bet the proceeds are going to a bonafide charity. I am not pretending I never bend or breakthe law, just not so flagrantly where it is out thee for the world to see. I think that is waht is upsetting to others like me. They dislike the actions of others who are so brazen to put it out in plain public view almost daring to get busted.

Not my cup of tea.
Click to expand...

FROM MY RESEARCH, PA ALLOWS RAFFLES AS LONG AS IT ADDS UP TO ACTUAL VALUE OF THE ITEM. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT THOUGH, IF IT IS ILLEGAL IN YOUR STATE.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
FROM MY RESEARCH, PA ALLOWS RAFFLES AS LONG AS IT ADDS UP TO ACTUAL VALUE OF THE ITEM. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT THOUGH, IF IT IS ILLEGAL IN YOUR STATE.
Click to expand...
You might want to recheck those statutes. Apparently we get different research resluts. As far as my research.... all 50 states declare raffles as a form of gambling and have laws against it with local options to allow for charitable in many.
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Pennsylvania/
? 5512. Lotteries, etc.

(a) Status of activity.--All unlawful lotteries or numbers games are hereby declared to be common nuisances. Every transfer of property which shall be in pursuance of any unlawful lottery or numbers game is hereby declared to be invalid and void.

(b) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree if he:

(1) sets up, or maintains, any lottery or numbers game;
(2) manufactures or prints, or sells, exposes for sale or has in his possession with intent to sell any unlawful lottery or numbers ticket or share, or any writing, token or other device purporting or intending to entitle the holder or bearer, or any other person, to any prize to be drawn or obtained in any lottery, or numbers game; or
(3) publishes any advertisement of any lottery or numbers game.

(c) Status of purchaser.--The purchaser of any such ticket, or device, shall not be liable to any prosecution or penalty arising out of this crime, and shall in all respects be a competent witness to prove the offense.

(d) Definition.--As used in this section the term "unlawful" means not specifically authorized by law.



http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Charitable-Gaming/Pennsylvania/Pennsylvania-raffles.htm

In your state, they define the buyers as 'witnesses" who could effectively be compelled to testify against the one person running the raffle. All in black and white. TEE HEE HEE. thatis like having a list of 20-40 witnesses available and probably 1 count for each. You know how the law works.. they love to bury a defendent in as many counts as possible.
 
Last edited:
our_auctionguy said:
You might want to recheck those statutes. Apparently we get different research resluts. As far as my research.... all 50 states declare raffles as a form of gambling and have laws against it with local options to allow for charitable in many.
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Pennsylvania/
? 5512. Lotteries, etc.

(a) Status of activity.--All unlawful lotteries or numbers games are hereby declared to be common nuisances. Every transfer of property which shall be in pursuance of any unlawful lottery or numbers game is hereby declared to be invalid and void.

(b) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree if he:

(1) sets up, or maintains, any lottery or numbers game;
(2) manufactures or prints, or sells, exposes for sale or has in his possession with intent to sell any unlawful lottery or numbers ticket or share, or any writing, token or other device purporting or intending to entitle the holder or bearer, or any other person, to any prize to be drawn or obtained in any lottery, or numbers game; or
(3) publishes any advertisement of any lottery or numbers game.

(c) Status of purchaser.--The purchaser of any such ticket, or device, shall not be liable to any prosecution or penalty arising out of this crime, and shall in all respects be a competent witness to prove the offense.

(d) Definition.--As used in this section the term "unlawful" means not specifically authorized by law.



http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Charitable-Gaming/Pennsylvania/Pennsylvania-raffles.htm

In your state, they define the buyers as 'witnesses" who could effectively be compelled to testify against the one person running the raffle. All in black and white. TEE HEE HEE. thatis like having a list of 20-40 witnesses available and probably 1 count for each.
Click to expand...

A RAFFLE IS NOT A LOTTERY. THE LOTTERY LAW IS USED TO CONTROL "THE NUMBERS GAMES" THAT YOU HEAR THE OLD TIMERS TALK ABOUT. IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

AND AS FAR AS I CAN READ A RAFFLE IS LEGAL, AS LONG AS YOU USE A PUBLIC (GOVERMENT CONTROLED) LOTTERY TO CHOOSE YOUR RAFFLE WINNER.

IF I GET AMBITIOUS, I'LL CALL MY LAWYER AND ASK HIM TO CLARIFY, BUT I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS THAT MUCH TO ME, BECAUSE I DON'T SEE MYSELF RUNNING A RAFFLE. IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO GET ONE BUYER TO PAY, LET ALONE 42 SEPERATE BUYERS.

P.S. I KNEW I SHOULDN'T HAVE POSTED ANYTHING REGARDING THIS SUBJECT, MY INFO CAME FROM ANOTHER GUY IN PA THAT DID THE READING OF THE LAWS FOR ME.
 
Last edited:
Just to keep it friendly, I think I have $20 laying around somewhere that I would pay for information proving it is completely legal to raffle in PA for private gain verses charitable donation if you have $20 you would pay for information to the contrary. I am a lowly paid researcher and could use the funds.

raffle not a lottery???
"Raffle." A game in which a participant buys a ticket for a chance at a prize with the winner determined by a random drawing of corresponding ticket stubs to take place at a location and date or dates printed upon each ticket. Such games shall include lotteries but not daily drawings. Raffle winners may be determined by reference to drawings conducted by the department pursuant to the act of August 26, 1971 (P.L.351, No.91), known as the State Lottery Law.

I went up against 3 insurance companies on 3 separate ocassions without an attorney after they tried to screw me over. I threw my own legal precedence at their feet citing case law and mumbo jumbo they could take to their attorney(s) that I was going to use in court and always gave them 1 week to accept 100% responisbility or wait for my court filings. Haven't lost yet. Maybe you got me.
 
Last edited:
our_auctionguy said:
Just to keep it friendly, I think I have $20 laying around somewhere that I would pay for information proving it is completely legal to raffle in PA for private gain verses charitable donation if you have $20 you would pay for information to the contrary. I am a lowly paid researcher and could use the funds.
Click to expand...

I DON'T CARE EITHER WAY. SO, I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT BEING ILLEGAL, SINCE YOU ARE RESEARCHER. I'M A BUSINESS OWNER, SO I'D HAVE TO SAY THAT LOOKING THIS STUFF UP, IS MORE UP YOUR ALLEY.

LIKE I SAID IN MY LAST POST, I WAS RELYING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S INFORMATION. AND I NOW FULLY REGRET POSTING, BECAUSE I HATE WHEN I MAKE POSTS, THAT TURN INTO DISCUSSIONS THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT. IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS CUES, CUEMAKERS, OR CUE CONSTRUCTION, I'M UP FOR THAT, BUT I'M THINKING MY RAFFLE DISCUSSIONS ARE OVER.


P.S. IF YOU HAVE A LAWYER THAT WOULD LOOK THE LAW UP FOR 40 BUCKS, I THINK YOU NEED A NEW LAWYER.
 
our_auctionguy said:
Just to keep it friendly, I think I have $20 laying around somewhere that I would pay for information proving it is completely legal to raffle in PA for private gain verses charitable donation if you have $20 you would pay for information to the contrary. I am a lowly paid researcher and could use the funds.

raffle not a lottery???
"Raffle." A game in which a participant buys a ticket for a chance at a prize with the winner determined by a random drawing of corresponding ticket stubs to take place at a location and date or dates printed upon each ticket. Such games shall include lotteries but not daily drawings. Raffle winners may be determined by reference to drawings conducted by the department pursuant to the act of August 26, 1971 (P.L.351, No.91), known as the State Lottery Law.
Click to expand...

NOW THAT YOU EDITED YOUR POST WHILE I WAS REPLYING, I'LL SAY IT ONE MORE TIME....



I DON'T CARE

ADDED WHEN I REALIZED WHAT TIME IT IS...... SORRY TO CUT OUR EXCITING RAFFLE TALK SHORT, BUT I HAVE A FAMILY FUNTION TO ATTEND THIS AFTERNOON, AND I NEED TO LEAVE.
 
Last edited:
I can't believe threads on gambling legality and ethics keep popping up in a POOL FORUM. Isn't that the backbone of the pool world? I'm positive the game's name was based on betting money in a POOL.

Seriously though, I don't understand how these raffles are bad for the community. Its the only thing moving some cues. I agree the integrity aspect is compromised, seeing how some raffled cues have ticket prices that are questionable, and how some winners only do it to flip a cue back for a huge profit. But if a Southwest lands in a players hands for $25, I'm happy for the player.

If you think the ticket price is unfair in something, PM the seller and see if you can get the spot for what you feel its worth. You guys tire kick in sales ALL THE TIME, why is the raffle treated differently?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother coming back to these forums. All it seems to be lately is a bunch of old guys bickering and pissing on each other. Anyone wonder why pool is bleeding people out of our community? Who the hell wants to be part of this?
 
Here is WA a raffle can only be held by a non-profit organization...a pool league would be an example of such. As any non-profit must register with the Secretary of State (WA), so must the non-profit register and apply for a permit to hold a legal raffle. Here, raffles are consider to be a form of gambling.

I know this because I was the secretary for my league one year, and had to do just that, and read through the Washington Code thoroughly.

Lisa
 
our_auctionguy said:
In all honesty, in my own experience, I have often thought it would be great to be able to sell through a raffle, however because it is well documented in every state as only legal for charitable benefit to one degree or another, I am jealous of those who right out in the open will break the law for everyone to see. I just can't bring myself to doing it. If I raffle something, you can bet the proceeds are going to a bonafide charity. I am not pretending I never bend or breakthe law, just not so flagrantly where it is out there for the world to see. I think that is what is upsetting to others like me. They dislike the actions of others who are so brazen to put it out in plain public view almost daring to get busted and possibly bring some harm to AZB.

Why doesn't someone start raffle.com and see how long it takes the authorities to come knocking.

Not my cup of tea.
Click to expand...

So let me understand your statement....It's ok to bend or break the law as long it's not a public display?? :rolleyes:
 
snowmon34 said:
So let me understand your statement....It's ok to bend or break the law as long it's not a public display?? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yes, you can streak in the public streets, as long as nobody sees you:D

Then it would be illegal. Don't you get it?:confused: :rolleyes:

If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around to hear it, except for the illegal tree harvester, is it a crime?

Michael
 
Huh ? Is NOT An Answer (Judge Judy)

Not to confuse apples with oranges, but in today's poor housing market, how do home owner's get away with raffling off their homes at $100 per ticket in many states...(and it get's picked up and advertised by the newspaper and television stations) ?????????

Doug
(just a curious drive by onlooker/reader) :)
 
Monto P2 said:
This is not a discussion forum if u want to discuss anything go and post in main forum
Click to expand...


Hey Smorg,

It looks like there is a whole bunch of us sitting
on the group W bench now with 50 something posts
disobeying a direct order.
:D :D :D
 
While I respect everyone opinions on what raffles will do to the markey I think people should examine what the next few years economy will do to the cue markey. Don't blame a raffle for lower prices and for a sharp decline.

IMO saturation will be the biggest concern for the market followed by the economy. Heck 98% of everyone here personally knows a cuemaker. They are everywhere now. Many many people are making them. This lowers prices. Saturation on the market will help perhaps only a handful of sellers. The ones that sell the older classics might thrive in that market due to lack of availibility.

I plan on doing more raffles for OB-1 shafts and a few cues. I also am going to place a few cues up for direct sell. However, I believe that we are in for MAJOR changes in the way we have lived in America. I would not hang onto anything extra now waiting for a short time sell. The rise in Fuel prices is only the beggining. Not only does that have a direct waterfall effect on the suppliers and distributors but it will have an indirect effect on the sale of any goods and services. The latter has a direct effect on the employment situation. Many businesses are already having layoffs.
We are seeing year's worth inflation in a realtively short time frame. The end is actually no where in sight. In all honesty its a little scarey of a time in american history.
 
For christ sakes NO ONE enforces these silly laws. If all the police have to do is bust honest people tying to sell something the best way they can then they need cut back on their manpower.
No one is getting screwed, no one is getting, hurt no one is being forced to join in. Even if they did decide to bust us it's a misdomenor and if it ever got to court you would probably be fine 12.00 bucks.

You can bet that those laws were orignally meant to prevent some other "raffle" that wasn't on the up and up.

Also since we're all in differnt states and some in different countries how would they do it? Get the Feds involved ? yeah right!

Get over it!!

I feel better now ;)
 
Pii said:
For christ sakes NO ONE enforces these silly laws. If all the police have to do is bust honest people tying to sell something the best way they can then they need cut back on their manpower.
No one is getting screwed, no one is getting, hurt no one is being forced to join in. Even if they did decide to bust us it's a misdomenor and if it ever got to court you would probably be fine 12.00 bucks.

You can bet that those laws were orignally meant to prevent some other "raffle" that wasn't on the up and up.

Also since we're all in differnt states and some in different countries how would they do it? Get the Feds involved ? yeah right!

Get over it!!

I feel better now ;)
Click to expand...

Hello Pii,

Welcome to the group W bench ;)
 
Fuggit... I'm gonna go burn some $4/gal gas on my 56mpg 1981 Japanese made GL1100. I really wish it were true what the HD guys always said. But, nope... it really doesn't burn rice. Might even drag one of my oversized toothpicks along for the ride.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top