What is a Shortstop?

garczar said:
Medina came to Tulsa back in the mid/late 70's to play local barbox demon Fat Randy Wallace. Randy beat him two, maybe three, ahead sets on a Valley. Danny got warmed up, paid off, and headed back to the mountains. Randy scorched him. When DM did get to shoot he was weak from Randy's onslaught. Danny was better than a shortstop but just not quite champion grade. Don't get me wrong, it took a top player to beat him but his run-n-gun style often ran out of gas against the monster guys.
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A lot of top pros came to Denver to try and take off Danny in the 80s and 90s. Including big names.

Almost none of them got the cash.
 
lfigueroa said:
Reading all this... well, I don't know.

But my sense of it is that the term "shortstop" is one of hard earned honor and Fargo has nothing to do with it -- it's a local guy who is good enough to shortstop the road player coming through attempting to drain the pool room economy. Maybe the shortstop works a regular job and has to be called at work and told there's a game in town.

Think of it and the baseball position which is its namesake -- lots of balls hit in that direction, lots of territory to cover, and some tough plays to make. A shortstop is the guy who has proven himself over the years able to do all of that and someone the regulars can get behind to defend the pool room's honor against the guy passing through looking to steal.

Lou Figueroa
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The shortstop is a lot like obscenity.

About which supreme court justice Potter Stewart famously opined. "I know it when I see it".
 
sixpack said:
A lot of top pros came to Denver to try and take off Danny in the 80s and 90s. Including big names.

Almost none of them got the cash.
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No doubt he was tough action but he wasn't a champion in the Earl/Sigel/Buddy/Rempe/Hopkins league. His hi-power loose game was fine if he was in dead-punch. On a loose GC if he was breaking good he was almost un-touchable.
 
garczar said:
Medina came to Tulsa back in the mid/late 70's to play local barbox demon Fat Randy Wallace. Randy beat him two, maybe three, ahead sets on a Valley. Danny got warmed up, paid off, and headed back to the mountains. Randy scorched him. When DM did get to shoot he was weak from Randy's onslaught. Danny was better than a shortstop but just not quite champion grade. Don't get me wrong, it took a top player to beat him but his run-n-gun style often ran out of gas against the monster guys.
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That’s fair. I seen Danny on the barbox play champion speed-but that was a barbox. Danny also picked his spots real good and took the heat, being a champion isn’t all offence. Danny as a whole package was a super solid player, he imo was a super-shortstop.

Yup that’s correct and super-shortstop. We have a new word in pool to argue about. 😅😂😉

Fatboy<———making pool more complicated one post at a time😉😃😃
 
sjm said:
Interesting that this debate rages on after twenty years, but my sense of things is that a shortstop is a player that can beat most everyone in his area but is not good enough to beat road players passing through. I think that's the Fargo 700-725 player, a) whose best action will be local, b) who can post the occasional top three finish in regional tour play like the Joss Northeast Tour or Mezz tour, and c) is not a real threat to have a top ten finish in any of pool's majors.

PS For the record, I've never heard of a woman player referred to as a shortstop.
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We love the debates Stu.

I hope you have been good.

Just wanted to say hello and hope to see you at derby next time. I missed the last one.

Best
Fatboy 😃😃
 
In my experiences, the definition of a shortstop has changed in the last 45 years. Now, it seems it is a specific level of play, somewhere below pro. But 30-45 years ago, a shortstop’s ability was specific to his locale and the road players ability. The shortstop was the person that would kill your action, either way. If you beat him, the ducks wouldn’t play you and the players above him were tuff money, making for a short stop at his place. Kind of like, “If you beat Moselle, ole Earl over there loses interest.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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sjm said:
I definitely plan to be at Derby City in January. See you there.
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Good to hear you are still going, Stu, after the debacle last year. I also plan on attending. I will put a bug in Tal's ear and see if I can get him back down there. Now just to decide which event(s) to donate my $$$ to!
 
jason said:
Good to hear you are still going, Stu, after the debacle last year. I also plan on attending. I will put a bug in Tal's ear and see if I can get him back down there. Now just to decide which event(s) to donate my $$$ to!
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Yeah, get in his ear before it is too late. Hoping to see you guys there.
 
xradarx said:
Shortstops were the true roadies who had grown weary of the traveling, eating when and wherever they could, if they could afford food and still have a gambling stake, all while sleeping wherever they could find a safe respite.
They chose a location, population wise that would allow them to earn what they felt like they needed to survive, without committing the basic sin of gambling, killing the golden goose.
The first rule was to never bust any opponent. You could win small amounts from many players, but if you beat them for a hundred dollars or so, they wouldn’t gamble with you anymore.
Shortstops who could live on $300-$400 a week usually set up in smaller population cities of about 25,000-30,000 citizens.
Those who wanted to get more dollars $500-$1,000 a week would seek population cities of 50,000-100,000.
They always suggested to other road weary players that they should find their own city to earn their living, so the shortstops didn’t need to compete with each other.
There are some shortstop still out there doing their thing.

I, on the other hand, always kept a job earning enough to satisfy the needs of a family.
It also, allowed for me to stake other potential shortstops and share the earnings splitting the winnings 50/50 without me actually busting local gamblers.
I was taught by the best and have run this same drama from the late 60s until the present.
I can still find games to subsidize my retirement income should the need arise.
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Great post, touching not only on the definition of a shortstop, but also the ways of the shortstop. The shortstop that is a former roadie is one of the many interesting types that makes up pool's landscape. Thanks for the education.
 
I was thinking. In the spirit of shortstops. I wonder what percentage of shortstops, especially in the 700+ range had aspirations of being a professional player (and possibly approach professional speed) but has had their dreams dashed by their inability to break through to a level that lets that be a reality for them. And not just in a bravado sense of “I bet I could throw this football over those mountains” but in an honest to heart “this is what was in their soul while they practiced” sense. Perhaps 95%?
 
MattPoland said:
I was thinking. In the spirit of shortstops. I wonder what percentage of shortstops, especially in the 700+ range had aspirations of being a professional player (and possibly approach professional speed) but has had their dreams dashed by their inability to break through to a level that lets that be a reality for them. And not just in a bravado sense of “I bet I could throw this football over those mountains” but in an honest to heart “this is what was in their soul while they practiced” sense. Perhaps 95%?
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Yup, most of them. A typical shortstop (say a Fargo 720) has won a title or two at the regional level (such as Joss or Mezz Tour) and has surely wondered whether he has what it takes to win at the next level or in independent events like Derby City, the Music City Open or the Texas Open. In most cases, he does not. He also quickly learns that he must steer clear of the unknown road players from out of town. The true road warriors eat Fargo 720 players for lunch.

Only a few shortstops blossom into players having a good shot to make money in any top pro event, let alone one of pool's majors.
 
sjm said:
It's a term I've heard for decades and even used myself from time to time, but I've never known exactly what it means.

Would somebody be so kind as to offer a definition of the term "shortstop" as it relates to pool?
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Here's the definition in my online Pool Terminology Glossary, which is extensive and fairly complete (although, if anybody has any recommended additions, please let me know):

shortstop: a solid player (usually a local) who can be beaten only by top players (usually only touring pros).​
 
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