What is my level of play?

[livemusic]

I keep seeing people mention grades of player ability but I'm confused on how a grade is assessed. Wanting to improve but first wondering how to describe my play...

I'm at retirement age. Casual player for 50 years, yikes. Have gone several years at a time when I never shot a game. Have always been a good athlete, do well at 'skill' type sports. Took up golf at age 21 and best golf handicap was +1.2, which is better than scratch. Shoulder injury killed that, haven't played in years but I might take it up again just to play every once in awhile because I do love the game and love being outdoors.

In our local bar, there is one guy who can beat me, he plays in a league. He's new to me, a couple weeks now, and we're pretty even but I'm thinking he's a notch above with better cue ball control. He wasn't at the bar recently and I beat 11 opponents that night and never lost. But there isn't great competition. I am going to play this guy more and see how we stack up, I like playing him.

I recently decided to play a week of straight pool just throwing all 15 balls out on the table randomly and ran them all out many times (but usually didn't) and the best I did was a run of 29 three times.

I do ok with vertical english, not as well with side spin. Main issue I think is cue ball control. Have watched a boatload of youtube and pro players always know where it's going and I don't. I know generally where it's going but they seem to know within inches where it will stop. I do pretty well with whitey if I am shooting softer.

Any idea what you'd call my level of play? Intermediate, "B," "C," or what? I get confused looking at various rating methods. If someone asks, I don't know what to say.

EDIT: As for what is 'good,' I don't think I'm that good. I can just hold my own in a game of 8-ball in most bars. Skilled players will beat me routinely over a set of many games. I only ask this because I wonder where I fit in. I have a long ways to go. But, based on just one thing I learned about a month ago by watching a lot of videos (and noticed something onscreen), I improved probably 5-10% from that alone. So, I think I can get a lot better.

 

[dr_dave]

I keep seeing people mention grades of player ability but I'm confused on how a grade is assessed. Wanting to improve but first wondering how to describe my play...

I'm at retirement age. Casual player for 50 years, yikes. Have gone several years at a time when I never shot a game. Have always been a good athlete, do well at 'skill' type sports. Took up golf at age 21 and best golf handicap was +1.2, which is better than scratch. Shoulder injury killed that, haven't played in years but I might take it up again just to play every once in awhile because I do love the game and love being outdoors.

In our local bar, there is one guy who can beat me, he plays in a league. He's new to me, a couple weeks now, and we're pretty even but I'm thinking he's a notch above with better cue ball control. He wasn't at the bar recently and I beat 11 opponents that night and never lost. But there isn't great competition. I am going to play this guy more and see how we stack up, I like playing him.

I recently decided to play a week of straight pool just throwing all 15 balls out on the table randomly and ran them all out many times (but usually didn't) and the best I did was a run of 29 three times.

I do ok with vertical english, not as well with side spin. Main issue I think is cue ball control. Have watched a boatload of youtube and pro players always know where it's going and I don't. I know generally where it's going but they seem to know within inches where it will stop. I do pretty well with whitey if I am shooting softer.

Any idea what you'd call my level of play? Intermediate, "B," "C," or what? I get confused looking at various rating methods. If someone asks, I don't know what to say.

Descriptions of the A-D rating system can be found here:

A-D player ratings

Good ways to measure your playing ability and rating are the:

Billiard University (BU) playing-ability rating system

and:

"playing the ghost" rating drills

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[Nostroke]

Mid to high C I'd guess. 29 without break shots is not 29.

 

[DelawareDogs]

There's handicaps(Skill Levels) in league play, then there's FargoRate, then there's how you rate against locals. Then there's how your locals would rate you against unknown but clearly better players.

I would say it's too tough to judge your level of play, with only going off the knowledge that there's one guy in the bar that can beat you, and he plays league.

I'm assuming when you say that, it's a single game of 8 ball?

Beating everyone in the room wouldn't be a great measure of skill if everyone else doesn't really play, or doesn't take the game as seriously as you do.

Like the saying goes, if you think you can beat everyone in the pool hall, you're in the wrong room.

Find some good locals that know how they rate, and play them. See how you do and tell us about it. :thumbup:

 

[cycopath]

I would also say beating “the guys at the bar” isn’t a good way to gauge your speed. My friend has gone to bars and played all night without losing and he’s a mediocre SL4 in the APA league.

Another friend was asked not to come back to a little pool tournament after winning it. The owner of the place said they didn’t allow Pros to play in the tournament. This guy is a SL7 in APA 8 ball, but I would say a C player at best.

Bottom line is playing against the local bangers is not the way to determine your skill level. Like Dr Dave said use some established drills to figure your level out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[alstl]

I like to use equal offense as a basic indicator. It doesn't calculate defense but it's a pretty good way to clock offense.

Over a period of time play ten sets of equal offense and figure your average - 9 foot table of course.

 

[MattPoland]

Skill Tests

I recommend the ZeroX skills test because it is very simple and easy to execute. I'm assuming you might not beat this kind of 3-ball ghost with you going to 10 and the ghost going to 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgdrAwaaCBU

There are other more in-depth skill evaluations / exams, like Billiards University. I think those are good ideas to look at. I've been hesitant to try them myself because they appear a little daunting to setup.

A,B,C,D System

This is largely subjective but here's how I look at it.

D Player:
Poor fundamentals, ball pocketing, cueball control, and patterns. Almost never runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball. Will give their opponent 3+ chances at the table.

C Player:
Resembling good fundamentals but in need of fine tuning. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots but struggles with hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction. Pattern selection is poor, 1-2 balls ahead with key shots commonly an afterthought. Attempting shots that require too precise of cueball control. Rarely runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball but on occasion they can. Typically will give their opponent 2-3 chances at the table.

C+ Player
Fundamentals are looking tight but there are a couple unaware hitches holding them back. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots and percentages are rising to make hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction with more accuracy and speed control. Pattern selection is 2-3 balls ahead and more often looking at key shots. However challenges in speed control and pattern selection tends to give opponents 1-2 chances at the table.

B Player
Fundamentals are solid. Ball pocketing is good for easy, medium and hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in precise directions. Pattern selection is 3-4 balls ahead with strong strategy for dealing with key shots and problem balls. Capable of running racks of 8 ball and 9 ball. Will give the opponent 1 chance at the table most games.

B+ Player
Just like a B player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every other game. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

BB Player
Just like a B+ player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every now and then. Is capable of stringing together multiple table runs. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

A Player
Just like a BB player but is more consistent. Able to break and run 3 or 4 out of every 5 racks.

AA Player
Just like an A player but is more consistent. They look like they play at the same level as an A player but they'll edge out the set. Their safety and return safety game is likely a factor to that difference. Occasionally winning amateur state championships.

AAA Player
Just like an A player but is even more consistent. Frequently winning amateur state championships. Likely is within the Top 100 US players.

Pro Player
The gap between a AAA player and a top pro might as well be the same as between an A player and a C+ player. You can't take their fundamentals and wisdom for granted but the noticeable thing is that their cueball control is darn near exact. Even when they fail, it's typically due to playing at a level of pressure that would collapse an amateur. The pro level simply doesn't fit this scale. That's where Fargo is a lot more accurate for all levels but not quite comfortable for everyone to talk about yet.

Your Skill Level
I would guess you are a C player. Higher level players don't need to use sidespin as much because they can use the angles to move the cueball around the table. Even if higher level players don't use as much sidespin, it still comes up often. I assume your cueball control isn't very precise if you feel uncomfortable using sidespin when needed. I assume your pattern selection might not be at a high level because throwing the balls out on the table to shoot in any order doesn't challenge that area of your game. I feel if you were working on that area, you'd have mentioned a different touchstone for communicating your skills.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Skill Tests

I recommend the ZeroX skills test because it is very simple and easy to execute. I'm assuming you might not beat this kind of 3-ball ghost with you going to 10 and the ghost going to 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgdrAwaaCBU

There are other more in-depth skill evaluations / exams, like Billiards University. I think those are good ideas to look at. I've been hesitant to try them myself because they appear a little daunting to setup.

A,B,C,D System

This is largely subjective but here's how I look at it.

D Player:
Poor fundamentals, ball pocketing, cueball control, and patterns. Almost never runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball. Will give their opponent 3+ chances at the table.

C Player:
Resembling good fundamentals but in need of fine tuning. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots but struggles with hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction. Pattern selection is poor, 1-2 balls ahead with key shots commonly an afterthought. Attempting shots that require too precise of cueball control. Rarely runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball but on occasion they can. Typically will give their opponent 2-3 chances at the table.

C+ Player
Fundamentals are looking tight but there are a couple unaware hitches holding them back. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots and percentages are rising to make hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction with more accuracy and speed control. Pattern selection is 2-3 balls ahead and more often looking at key shots. However challenges in speed control and pattern selection tends to give opponents 1-2 chances at the table.

B Player
Fundamentals are solid. Ball pocketing is good for easy, medium and hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in precise directions. Pattern selection is 3-4 balls ahead with strong strategy for dealing with key shots and problem balls. Capable of running racks of 8 ball and 9 ball. Will give the opponent 1 chance at the table most games.

B+ Player
Just like a B player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every other game. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

BB Player
Just like a B+ player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every now and then. Is capable of stringing together multiple table runs. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

A Player
Just like a BB player but is more consistent. Able to break and run 3 or 4 out of every 5 racks.

AA Player
Just like an A player but is more consistent. They look like they play at the same level as an A player but they'll edge out the set. Their safety and return safety game is likely a factor to that difference. Occasionally winning amateur state championships.

AAA Player
Just like an A player but is even more consistent. Frequently winning amateur state championships. Likely is within the Top 100 US players.

Pro Player
The gap between a AAA player and a top pro might as well be the same as between an A player and a C+ player. You can't take their fundamentals and wisdom for granted but the noticeable thing is that their cueball control is darn near exact. Even when they fail, it's typically due to playing at a level of pressure that would collapse an amateur. The pro level simply doesn't fit this scale. That's where Fargo is a lot more accurate for all levels but not quite comfortable for everyone to talk about yet.

Your Skill Level
I would guess you are a C player. Higher level players don't need to use sidespin as much because they can use the angles to move the cueball around the table. Even if higher level players don't use as much sidespin, it still comes up often. I assume your cueball control isn't very precise if you feel uncomfortable using sidespin when needed. I assume your pattern selection might not be at a high level because throwing the balls out on the table to shoot in any order doesn't challenge that area of your game. I feel if you were working on that area, you'd have mentioned a different touchstone for communicating your skills.

I dont think chart is very accurate. An A player run 3 to 4 out of 5 racks? Bucky came in 8th at the Turning Stone and personally ive never seen him run more than 3 racks in a row. Ill tell you this he doesnt miss too often either. I would consider Bucky a professional level player.


It would be really helpful if we knew the skill level of this league guy you play. His actual level and not what he thinks he is.

 

[dr_dave]

Good write-up. FYI, I've added a quote of your post to the A-D Rating system page.

I agree that the BU Playing Ability Exams require a commitment, but it is time worth spent. The Exams are excellent pool workouts; and they test all important skills, not just basic run-out offense.

The "playing the ghost" rating drills are much easier (and more fun for many people), and they give good results for basic offensive ability.

Regards,
Dave

Skill Tests

I recommend the ZeroX skills test because it is very simple and easy to execute. I'm assuming you might not beat this kind of 3-ball ghost with you going to 10 and the ghost going to 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgdrAwaaCBU

There are other more in-depth skill evaluations / exams, like Billiards University. I think those are good ideas to look at. I've been hesitant to try them myself because they appear a little daunting to setup.

A,B,C,D System

This is largely subjective but here's how I look at it.

D Player:
Poor fundamentals, ball pocketing, cueball control, and patterns. Almost never runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball. Will give their opponent 3+ chances at the table.

C Player:
Resembling good fundamentals but in need of fine tuning. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots but struggles with hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction. Pattern selection is poor, 1-2 balls ahead with key shots commonly an afterthought. Attempting shots that require too precise of cueball control. Rarely runs a full table of 8 ball or 9 ball but on occasion they can. Typically will give their opponent 2-3 chances at the table.

C+ Player
Fundamentals are looking tight but there are a couple unaware hitches holding them back. Ball pocketing is good for easy and medium shots and percentages are rising to make hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in the right general direction with more accuracy and speed control. Pattern selection is 2-3 balls ahead and more often looking at key shots. However challenges in speed control and pattern selection tends to give opponents 1-2 chances at the table.

B Player
Fundamentals are solid. Ball pocketing is good for easy, medium and hard shots. Cueball control sends the ball in precise directions. Pattern selection is 3-4 balls ahead with strong strategy for dealing with key shots and problem balls. Capable of running racks of 8 ball and 9 ball. Will give the opponent 1 chance at the table most games.

B+ Player
Just like a B player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every other game. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

BB Player
Just like a B+ player but will give the opponent 1 chance at the table every now and then. Is capable of stringing together multiple table runs. Shot repertoire is fairly expansive.

A Player
Just like a BB player but is more consistent. Able to break and run 3 or 4 out of every 5 racks.

AA Player
Just like an A player but is more consistent. They look like they play at the same level as an A player but they'll edge out the set. Their safety and return safety game is likely a factor to that difference. Occasionally winning amateur state championships.

AAA Player
Just like an A player but is even more consistent. Frequently winning amateur state championships. Likely is within the Top 100 US players.

Pro Player
The gap between a AAA player and a top pro might as well be the same as between an A player and a C+ player. You can't take their fundamentals and wisdom for granted but the noticeable thing is that their cueball control is darn near exact. Even when they fail, it's typically due to playing at a level of pressure that would collapse an amateur. The pro level simply doesn't fit this scale. That's where Fargo is a lot more accurate for all levels but not quite comfortable for everyone to talk about yet.

Your Skill Level
I would guess you are a C player. Higher level players don't need to use sidespin as much because they can use the angles to move the cueball around the table. Even if higher level players don't use as much sidespin, it still comes up often. I assume your cueball control isn't very precise if you feel uncomfortable using sidespin when needed. I assume your pattern selection might not be at a high level because throwing the balls out on the table to shoot in any order doesn't challenge that area of your game. I feel if you were working on that area, you'd have mentioned a different touchstone for communicating your skills.

 

[livemusic]

Based on what is posted above, the ABCD system... I would say I am a C and closing in on C+.

Before I started the thread, I didn't know what the letters meant when people said "B" or "C" or whatever.

I think the better players shooting in a bar, even the "regulars" who shoot pool each week... are "D" level. They can make some shots and sometimes some good ones, but they really don't play "shapes" well at all. That's what we call it when you have a good shot at your next ball. Their games are more or less "make the object ball and hope you get shapes somehow on the next ball." That's a big reason why I beat them, because I really do pay attention to trying to control the cue ball and plan 2-3 ahead.

 

[MattPoland]

I dont think chart is very accurate. An A player run 3 to 4 out of 5 racks? Bucky came in 8th at the Turning Stone and personally ive never seen him run more than 3 racks in a row. Ill tell you this he doesnt miss too often either. I would consider Bucky a professional level player.





It would be really helpful if we knew the skill level of this league guy you play. His actual level and not what he thinks he is.

Fair point. You mileage may vary.

I think your typical amateur is measured by the A-D system for playing in amateur events on bar tables.

Expected performance is different with professionals and top amateurs playing in professional events on tough 9’ tables.



Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)

 

[iusedtoberich]

Based on your opening post, and also the questions you have been asking on other posts, D+, C- at best since you ran 29 by throwing balls on the table without a break shot, which does require skill to do for sure.

IMO, and all the best.

 

[hang-the-9]

I keep seeing people mention grades of player ability but I'm confused on how a grade is assessed. Wanting to improve but first wondering how to describe my play...

I'm at retirement age. Casual player for 50 years, yikes. Have gone several years at a time when I never shot a game. Have always been a good athlete, do well at 'skill' type sports. Took up golf at age 21 and best golf handicap was +1.2, which is better than scratch. Shoulder injury killed that, haven't played in years but I might take it up again just to play every once in awhile because I do love the game and love being outdoors.

In our local bar, there is one guy who can beat me, he plays in a league. He's new to me, a couple weeks now, and we're pretty even but I'm thinking he's a notch above with better cue ball control. He wasn't at the bar recently and I beat 11 opponents that night and never lost. But there isn't great competition. I am going to play this guy more and see how we stack up, I like playing him.

I recently decided to play a week of straight pool just throwing all 15 balls out on the table randomly and ran them all out many times (but usually didn't) and the best I did was a run of 29 three times.

I do ok with vertical english, not as well with side spin. Main issue I think is cue ball control. Have watched a boatload of youtube and pro players always know where it's going and I don't. I know generally where it's going but they seem to know within inches where it will stop. I do pretty well with whitey if I am shooting softer.

Any idea what you'd call my level of play? Intermediate, "B," "C," or what? I get confused looking at various rating methods. If someone asks, I don't know what to say.

EDIT: As for what is 'good,' I don't think I'm that good. I can just hold my own in a game of 8-ball in most bars. Skilled players will beat me routinely over a set of many games. I only ask this because I wonder where I fit in. I have a long ways to go. But, based on just one thing I learned about a month ago by watching a lot of videos (and noticed something onscreen), I improved probably 5-10% from that alone. So, I think I can get a lot better.

If you don't know, you are probably not past a C level. A B player and better should be aware of how they play in comparison to others in the area and maybe even country and would know their level.

Running out a full rack of balls even with ball in hand and shooting in any order is not what I would call very easy, that should put you in solid C level, maybe C+. This would be on a 9 footer, an easy playing 7 footer is probably a lot easier but I hardly play on those so can't really compare.

Try playing the 6 ball ghost, setup a 6 ball break (mini triangle), break, take ball in hand and shoot them in order like 9 ball. If you win, you get a point. If you miss at all, the ghost gets a point. Play a few sets of 10 racks, see what the scores end up. It should be done on a 9 foot table, preferably with not buckets for pockets.

A good C+, B- player should beat the 6 ball ghost half for a good C+ or most of the time for someone at a B level.

 

[iusedtoberich]

But go to an actual pool hall with 15-20 tables, on the weekly tournament night, and you will see a huge range of player. If you are in a big city, there will definitely be A level players in an actual pool hall weekly tournament. In contrast, most bar room players typically top out at a C+.

 

[hang-the-9]

Based on your opening post, and also the questions you have been asking on other posts, D+, C- at best since you ran 29 by throwing balls on the table without a break shot, which does require skill to do for sure.

IMO, and all the best.

I don't think a C- can run a full rack of 15 very often, they are barely past beginning level and are just learning about controlling the cueball. It does seem like the skill in this case is a bit higher than knowledge of more advanced pool terms and ideas and the sport in general. C player with D+ knowledge maybe? LOL

 

[garczar]

I keep seeing people mention grades of player ability but I'm confused on how a grade is assessed. Wanting to improve but first wondering how to describe my play...

I'm at retirement age. Casual player for 50 years, yikes. Have gone several years at a time when I never shot a game. Have always been a good athlete, do well at 'skill' type sports. Took up golf at age 21 and best golf handicap was +1.2, which is better than scratch. Shoulder injury killed that, haven't played in years but I might take it up again just to play every once in awhile because I do love the game and love being outdoors.

In our local bar, there is one guy who can beat me, he plays in a league. He's new to me, a couple weeks now, and we're pretty even but I'm thinking he's a notch above with better cue ball control. He wasn't at the bar recently and I beat 11 opponents that night and never lost. But there isn't great competition. I am going to play this guy more and see how we stack up, I like playing him.

I recently decided to play a week of straight pool just throwing all 15 balls out on the table randomly and ran them all out many times (but usually didn't) and the best I did was a run of 29 three times.

I do ok with vertical english, not as well with side spin. Main issue I think is cue ball control. Have watched a boatload of youtube and pro players always know where it's going and I don't. I know generally where it's going but they seem to know within inches where it will stop. I do pretty well with whitey if I am shooting softer.

Any idea what you'd call my level of play? Intermediate, "B," "C," or what? I get confused looking at various rating methods. If someone asks, I don't know what to say.

EDIT: As for what is 'good,' I don't think I'm that good. I can just hold my own in a game of 8-ball in most bars. Skilled players will beat me routinely over a set of many games. I only ask this because I wonder where I fit in. I have a long ways to go. But, based on just one thing I learned about a month ago by watching a lot of videos (and noticed something onscreen), I improved probably 5-10% from that alone. So, I think I can get a lot better.

I see you're in La. Great pool state. Shouldn't have any trouble getting better down there. Some good players around.

 

[livemusic]

Based on going to my table and doing the 3-ball drill a few times just now, I think I must just be a "C" at this time, lol.

When I first started doing the straight pool 15-ball drill, I thought it would easier, lol. Those last five balls, especially, require some skill. Each time I missed ball #30, it wasn't easy shots but not real hard shots either. I just shot and missed and was surprised I missed to tell the truth. Rats! Maybe lack of concentration. I seem to do ok on money balls in real games.

Based on my doing the 15-ball drill, I know it's not that hard to you guys but the guys I play would be hard pressed to run 15 or more except for the guy who plays league. I am sure he can. Most people just hit and hope.

There isn't much competition here, it's just a regular country bar. My most memorable game was a guy who I pick and grin with, I had seen him play before and remembered he's pretty good for around here, has a very pleasing stroke. He wanted to put the geetars down after awhile and challenged me to "first one to 3" (race to 3). So we went to the bar; he said I could break and I got on a roll and I ran out two racks of 8-ball in a row, and then made the 8 on the 3rd rack break. He never got a shot and started calling me pool hustler, lol. But that was an unusually good roll.

It's fun seeing how good the pro players are. I am amazed at their skill level, it's just crazy. They must've shot a million shots to have that much knowledge of whitey's path. It just seems automatic, they just know!

 

[garczar]

Based on going to my table and doing the 3-ball drill a few times just now, I think I must just be a "C" at this time, lol.

When I first started doing the straight pool 15-ball drill, I thought it would easier, lol. Those last five balls, especially, require some skill. Each time I missed ball #30, it wasn't easy shots but not real hard shots either. I just shot and missed and was surprised I missed to tell the truth. Rats! Maybe lack of concentration. I seem to do ok on money balls in real games.

Based on my doing the 15-ball drill, I know it's not that hard to you guys but the guys I play would be hard pressed to run 15 or more except for the guy who plays league. I am sure he can. Most people just hit and hope.

There isn't much competition here, it's just a regular country bar. My most memorable game was a guy who I pick and grin with, I had seen him play before and remembered he's pretty good for around here, has a very pleasing stroke. He wanted to put the geetars down after awhile and challenged me to "first one to 3" (race to 3). So we went to the bar; he said I could break and I got on a roll and I ran out two racks of 8-ball in a row, and then made the 8 on the 3rd rack break. He never got a shot and started calling me pool hustler, lol. But that was an unusually good roll.

It's fun seeing how good the pro players are. I am amazed at their skill level, it's just crazy. They must've shot a million shots to have that much knowledge of whitey's path. It just seems automatic, they just know!

What part of state you in?

 

[ChrisinNC]

A Player - Break and run 3-4 out of every 5 racks? That sounds like a pro level player to me. What does a pro player break and run by your definition - 9 out of every 10 racks?

 

[TEAM SLO]

Interesting..... I never looked into rankings even when I used to play 15+ years ago. But now with my son, I have been curious. He joined an adult BCA league on 9' tables, has been against pretty solid players and has done well. He was just a 6.8 or 6.9ish last week and won so I heard this coming Wed he will be ranked as a 7.0+

Interesting that an 8 year old can be ranked that high?