What is Skid
- Thread starter Swedgin
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Swedgin said:
Object ball skid, is an unnatural/usually unexpected...action/reaction of the object ball after its struck by the cue ball. Dirt on balls, spin on cue ball, speed of cue ball contacting object ball, all these factors and more will cause the object ball not to go where its intended too (skid) because of the 'swipe' action of a cue ball coming across the contact point on the obj. ball.
Swedgin said:
There is a situation where the cue ball collides with the object ball and they stick together for a slight instance throwing off the shot and making it under cut.
They stick together because of dirty balls. Maybe they need to be cleaned. Maybe some one has been handling the cue ball and got their dirty hands all over it. Ever notice the pros on TV wiping the cue ball off with a towel between racks?
The spin on the cue ball also has something to do with it. I find that when I lightly shoot the cue ball, it is MUCH more likely to skid. You ever notice you are playing 9-ball. You get down to the 9. Now since you don't have to play shape, you play this nice easy shot and BOOM, you miss this super easy shot. You feel like you hit it well but it just didn't GO.
It probably skid.
Hope this helps.
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. THey also tend to cuss about it too:wink: .
One thing I'll add to the other replies is this: when the cue ball and object ball stick together due to dirt or other factors, the object ball will then be moving in the same direction as the cue ball for that fraction of a second. Only when they separate will the object ball then be moving perpedicular to the tangent line. By that time the shot may well be off-line. I think that many players find skid to be unpredictable, which is why it's helpful to use a little outside english if possible to allow spin-induced throw to offset any potential skid.Swedgin said:
I believe that every ball contact results in a skid. Most are so slight that they go unnoticed.
The ones that I have noticed, and which I think are most prevalent, occur on very soft shots at slight angles. The ob will move on the line that the cue ball was traveling prior too contact. As a previous poster noted, I use a slight bit of outside english on these shots which helps to prevent the skid.
I am a low level player so my observations may not be of much value.
Dave Nelson
The ones that I have noticed, and which I think are most prevalent, occur on very soft shots at slight angles. The ob will move on the line that the cue ball was traveling prior too contact. As a previous poster noted, I use a slight bit of outside english on these shots which helps to prevent the skid.
I am a low level player so my observations may not be of much value.
Dave Nelson
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Usually when the commentators say a ball skidded, they are not referring to normal collision induced throw, where the cue ball clings to the object ball slightly during contact and can slightly change the angle the object ball takes. We compensate for this on a decent amount of shots already.
The true skid is where a chalk mark on the cue ball, usually new but sometimes an old one, is exactly at the contact point between the cue ball and object ball. This causes increased friction between the cue ball and object ball, and will cause the object ball to take off at weird angles and/or take off with backspin, hence the skidding action.
Dirty balls increase the chance for a skid, not usually because of the dirt itself on the ball but because that dirt traps more of the chalk and increases the chance that a chalk mark stays longer on the ball, or that even an old chalk mark could cause the skid as well. Shorter distances also contribute to the chance, since there is less chance the chalk mark will be naturally rubbed off when traveling down the table.
Under normal conditions, this probably happens once every so often, maybe once every session or two in my experience, and sometimes can happen and still allow the ball to go in, so we don't pay attention to those as much. If you have a cut angle, shooting with no sidespin will eliminate it (at least from the fresh chalk mark you just put on), since the chalk mark will be to the side of contact. Shooting firmly also seems to reduce the chance of it happening. I remember some article from BD years ago (late 80's / early-mid 90's) by some professor (began with an O, Asian name) where I think he showed using high-outside or low-inside eliminated the possibility, and high-inside or low-outside increased it, or possibly the opposite...
That's why I hate dirty conditions, you have to be very careful about the speed and spin you are using to eliminate skids, several could occur in the same match under those conditions. Under normal clean conditions, I don't think I do anything special to prevent or worry about skids, other than not slow rolling crucial shots.
Scott
The true skid is where a chalk mark on the cue ball, usually new but sometimes an old one, is exactly at the contact point between the cue ball and object ball. This causes increased friction between the cue ball and object ball, and will cause the object ball to take off at weird angles and/or take off with backspin, hence the skidding action.
Dirty balls increase the chance for a skid, not usually because of the dirt itself on the ball but because that dirt traps more of the chalk and increases the chance that a chalk mark stays longer on the ball, or that even an old chalk mark could cause the skid as well. Shorter distances also contribute to the chance, since there is less chance the chalk mark will be naturally rubbed off when traveling down the table.
Under normal conditions, this probably happens once every so often, maybe once every session or two in my experience, and sometimes can happen and still allow the ball to go in, so we don't pay attention to those as much. If you have a cut angle, shooting with no sidespin will eliminate it (at least from the fresh chalk mark you just put on), since the chalk mark will be to the side of contact. Shooting firmly also seems to reduce the chance of it happening. I remember some article from BD years ago (late 80's / early-mid 90's) by some professor (began with an O, Asian name) where I think he showed using high-outside or low-inside eliminated the possibility, and high-inside or low-outside increased it, or possibly the opposite...
That's why I hate dirty conditions, you have to be very careful about the speed and spin you are using to eliminate skids, several could occur in the same match under those conditions. Under normal clean conditions, I don't think I do anything special to prevent or worry about skids, other than not slow rolling crucial shots.
Scott
Dave Nelson said:
It's going to take some time to find this again. But a few years ago I ran across a physics paper online discussing "skid" in billiards.
From their math (and this thing was FULL of math way over my head), it showed that the balls were much more likely to skid if they were naturally rolling across the table.
You find that when you spin the ball with outside, it negates the skid affect. Judging from the paper I saw, ANY spin should negate the effects of skid. Even hitting center so the ball is sliding should keep it from skidding.
Edit: After hitting some balls the past two days, I realize you can't play center. It doesn't skid but it throws the object ball slightly. Spin the ball to negate skid. Any spin, top, botttom, outside, whatever... Just don't play center or let it naturally roll.
It's the natural roll of the cue ball you need to be watching for.
Anyhow, I'm going to try to find this paper again. I'll post a new thread if I find it.
Edit: I've looked. I can't find this paper. Sorry.
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It is the mark in your undies.
matta said:
GREAT EXAMPLE......
OBJECT BALL SKID CAN ALSO BE CALLED BY CB SKID.
thing is snooker suffers from a LOT more skids (they call them kicks) than pool. it's due to a couple of things. firstly snooker players dont use much english - they use centre ball for most shots unlike pool players who tend to put a touch of outside on everything. secondly the balls are a lot smaller and lighter so a skid will have a bigger effect on the balls.
point is however the balls and conditions in professional snooker are immaculately clean. yet skids/kicks happen VERY often. i'm just not so sure about the old 'chalk at the point of contact' theory, although i'm not sure i have a better explanation!
Chalk (or other dirt) at the contact point has been shown to be the main reason for skid (Bob Jewett posted a demonstration of it in his "proposition shots" thread recently).
I think skid is just exaggerated throw - exaggerated by the chalk spot between the balls.
I don't think the OB parallels the CB for an instant until the CB "releases" it; I think it takes off at the "skid angle" right away, the same way throw works.
When the CB is rolling at impact you can often hear it hop a little when skid happens - this is "vertical skid".
pj
chgo
My take on skid is this .... The CB is rolling toward the OB at just the right angle and at a relatively slow speed. The CB has forward rotation on it. As it contacts the OB at this slow speed, it invokes a slight backspin to the OB from its own forward roll. As the OB realizes this slight backward rotation, the two balls seem to cling together for a split second, in doing so the CB throws the OB off course. The dirt or chalk on the balls helps increase friction between the balls and accentuates the phenomenon.
In my experience, even with very clean conditions, the tip leaves a spot of chalk on the cue ball. That spot may or may not be rubbed off by the cloth before the cue ball gets to the object ball, and it may or may not be gone within two or three more shots.worriedbeef said:
Bob Jewett said:
We're rehashing an old thread here but here's what Ive encountered many times.
The pool hall I frequent will polish the balls daily (I don't know what they use for polish, it comes in quart containers). The balls they use are well worn but highly polished. Most of the time the skid happens on softly stroked full ball shots with follow. You can actually see the cue ball climb up the object ball and not follow. You can count on having a ball skid at least once per hour. I attribute this entirely to the polish they use and chalk left on the cue ball. These balls are clean yet they can be thrown much more than most people would expect. They are very "clingy". Which makes some ordinarliy difficult shots much easier.
I have 10 year old Centenials at home and they almost never skid. I say almost never because occasionally I take them to the pool hall and have them polished. I may encounter 1 or 2 skids until the polish starts to wear off.
regards.........Paul
Paul Mon said:
The more times phenolic balls are run through the buffer, the more porus the balls become and inturn allow dirt etc. to enter into the ball itself and thus increase contact problems and skid occurances. Darker balls are naturally more porus and are more likely to skid (8 ball) than others struck in the same manner.
I think the polish can make chalk stick more. The next time you get a skid, try looking at the cue ball for a chalk spot that has a scuff mark in it.Paul Mon said: