What Is Wrong With These Guys?

lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I've heard DA speak of playing for 50 large but nothing ever seems to come from the "big" money talk. Other than just that..... Talk
 
Pros dont have money. Its the hard working people that have the money. Im sure there would be people to back some of the pros, as people backed you, but when it comes down to it pros dont usually post their own. Although im sure there are rare occssions nowadays, but its the average joes that have the cash.
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

What's wrong with them is one of two things:

If they had money to gamble high with they wouldn't be poolplayers.

People with large money don't usually bet on coin flips.

ONB
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

That was the original premise for TAR. Justin and Big Nasty hit on something pool didn't have at the time - streamed gambling matches for large purses. The backers dried up pretty quickly (unless your name was Shane). Ultimately, once the backers dried up, it became a business and the business was unsustainable.

The reason why you and John succeeded in attracting an audience was the build up, not the dollars. The publicity and marketing of a grudge match has a long, successful history. John is the perfect antagonist in my opinion and having him as an opponent was the key to your success. The audience knew it wasn't a staged grudge, it was the real deal playing for a large enough purse to matter.

The other thing is, we see the pros playing each other all the time. Too much exposure. I'm not sure that huge dollars would make much of a difference.
 
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lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I fully agree.

However I think that the real reason is that at that level they know that they aren't stealing against any other professional. And the backers know it as well.

So all they are left with is barking.

Comes down to the old player joke, two players are in the hotel room sleeping and one of them is having a bad nightmare. The other one wakes up and see this and shakes his buddy awake. He says, "what's wrong?" The one who had the nightmare says, "I dreamed I was playing for $25,000." The other one says, "and why is that bad?"

"It was my own money" is the reply.
 
As others have noted, pro players, for the most part, don't have the money to bet big, so unless there are backers, no big money match happens.

I think that the number of backers for big money matches is so small because a) the danger of a dump, nonpayment, or some other unethical behavior is always there when big money is on the line and b) the gapper one must pay to one's horse if they win amounts to giving odds on the money.

Back in the day, gamblers had a chance to stay under the radar. In this era in which most everybody knows the speed of most everybody else, being a stake-horse is not a very attractive proposition for people with money.
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Is this match on YouTube??? Gotta link?
 
TATE said:
That was the original premise for TAR. Justin and Big Nasty hit on something pool didn't have at the time - streamed gambling matches for large purses. The backers dried up pretty quickly (unless your name was Shane). Ultimately, once the backers dried up, it became a business and the business was unsustainable.

The reason why you and John succeeded in attracting an audience was the build up, not the dollars. The publicity and marketing of a grudge match has a long, successful history. John is the perfect antagonist in my opinion and having him as an opponent was the key to your success. The audience knew it wasn't a staged grudge, it was the real deal playing for a large enough purse to matter.

The other thing is, we see the pros playing each other all the time. Too much exposure. I'm not sure that huge dollars would make much of a difference.
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly!
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Personally, I like watching 2 semi-pros like you and John play! You guys make the game much more interesting! Don't get me wrong, I like watching the game played at the highest levels, but I like watching you guys play because the game is much more "real"!
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

They don't have the bankroll for one and what I found is they generally won't play in a game that my be deemed even ,, just doesn't happen much,, golf is the same way and although most don't think it's a big gambler sport ,, theirs probably 10 times or better money changing hands on a golf course than on a pool table ,, Phil's a notorious gambler
But you never here much about it ,, the merry Mex once said real pressure was playing a 5 dollar Nassau when you have no money in your pocket ,, but never do they match up
Guess that's part of professionalism

1
 
Yep! You got it right!

Allen Brown said:
Pros dont have money. Its the hard working people that have the money. Im sure there would be people to back some of the pros, as people backed you, but when it comes down to it pros dont usually post their own. Although im sure there are rare occssions nowadays, but its the average joes that have the cash.
Click to expand...

Then there's the history of dumping that has run a lot of the backers out of the game. There was a time when a guy would walk in and someone would tell him how good this guy or that guy plays, next thing you know the good play gets backed by someone he doesn't know and the game is on.

Not now, that doesn't happen. The action is with the guys that are near pro level and are known for gambling..., Chris B and guys like him.
 
King T said:
Then there's the history of dumping that has run a lot of the backers out of the game. There was a time when a guy would walk in and someone would tell him how good this guy or that guy plays, next thing you know the good play gets backed by someone he doesn't know and the game is on.

Not now, that doesn't happen. The action is with the guys that are near pro level and are known for gambling..., Chris B and guys like him.
Click to expand...

He certainly has the nuts to gamble ,, CJ says Morris is the best big cash player ,, and JB says Shane has a standing offer to anyone in 10 ball don't know if the Ko brothers changed his mind in that ,, I heard JA will take on all challengers in his house also ,, and Mike D threw up a whopping 3-5 bark at Shane in his house ,,
The only big money I think I've seen go up was from Dippy Dave throwing stupid money out there lost some won some ,but pro on pro not offten


1
 
50K is not worth the same everywhere. It's about one years worth of salary for a half way decent job here in the US, but could almost be 3-4 times the annual salary of one from Taiwan. Probably many times more for the Philippines. I have casually asked guys to play for a 20 dollar set in Taiwan, which is a pretty cheap game here in the US but its 6 hours of minimum wage pay in Taiwan so that is pretty much equivalent to a 50-60 dollar set.
 
Why not have a kick starter type site devoted to specific player money matches. Each patron could simply donate a small portion to the purse in order that their chosen horse could match up financially and then all side bets would be properly dealt with.
 
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liakos said:
Personally, I like watching 2 semi-pros like you and John play! You guys make the game much more interesting! Don't get me wrong, I like watching the game played at the highest levels, but I like watching you guys play because the game is much more "real"!
Click to expand...

Agreed....
 
every post herein is solid.

i will add, that we were GLUED to the TV for the Lou/JB match! we even hooked y'all up to the BIG screen! the hype for that match was huge. it became personal for everyone, cause we all feel as if we know yáll & are invested. hell, i bet everyone would have coughed up $10 for the stream.

same for OMGWTF matches. or ChicagoRJ's Rhea match. or Harriman/Schmidt - how many AZBers offered to pay up to $30PPV for that?

Lou & John were able to get their acts together & execute. if the pros played each other all the time, wouldn't it simply be flipping cash?
 
JB Cases said:
However I think that the real reason is that at that level they know that they aren't stealing against any other professional. And the backers know it as well.
Click to expand...

It's pretty much this, I think, but it's not even that they don't think they're stealing. The reality is that a lot of games between top pros come down to what is essentially a coin flip, with a slight edge going one way or the other.

If you're the backer there, it's hard to make financial sense of it, since even if you do have the best of it, you have the player expecting a decent sized cut if he wins.
 
lfigueroa said:
My question is pretty simple: What is wrong with the pros that they cannot get their kitty litter in one big bunch and target a challenge to another top player?

For years, JB and I nipped at each other. And when it came down to it, we played a challenge match for $10K. JB put up most of his, I chose to incorporate. But we played, there was anticipation, a stream, lots of viewers.

Why cannot ___________ (insert the player of your choice) come up with the dough to challenge another player for a sizable chunk. And I don't mean the $10K JB and I played for -- why not $25K, $50K, or $100K. (Yes, I know Earl and Efren did that way back when, but I believe a promoter put up the money.)

Certainly, someone must like: JA, RM, DA, MD, SVB, Name Any Filipino, Name Any Chinese Player, Name Any Taiwanese Player, Name Any European MC Player enough to say: I want to play_________ for $50Large.

I think it'd be huge :-)

What's up with that?

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Uhhh cause sometimes they dump backers.
 
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