What part does tip diameter play??

[bigskyblue]

1. What part does tip diameter play in the stroke and cue ball control?

2. Can you apply more english with a smaller or a larger tip?

3. Also, what's is suppose to happen, when you use a hard, medium, soft or super soft tip?

 

[allanpsand]

The width of the cue tip curve should closely match the curve of the cue ball. You get more action when a lot of cue tip material contacts the cue ball.

This is why you generally see the nickle curve for pool and the dime curve for snooker.

Otherwise it is easy to miscue.

(All this assumes the tip is properly chalked.)

I use a hard medium tip as my standard tip, but I also keep it properly curved and chalked. A straight stroke with good follow-through ensures I get my intended action. Others may have their preferred preferences.

 

[Scott Lee]

1. What part does tip diameter play in the stroke and cue ball control? Little, if any. You can do anything with any size tip...if you have a repeatable stroke!

2. Can you apply more english with a smaller or a larger tip? Both are equal, as the tip contact patch stays pretty consistent at 3mm.

3. Also, what's is suppose to happen, when you use a hard, medium, soft or super soft tip?

Again...very little difference. Tip hardness is a personal preference only...especially with a quality stroke.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[Bob Jewett]

1. What part does tip diameter play in the stroke and cue ball control?

2. Can you apply more english with a smaller or a larger tip?

3. Also, what's is suppose to happen, when you use a hard, medium, soft or super soft tip?

1. All other things being equal, a larger diameter tip (and ferrule and shaft) will cause more squirt (AKA deflection).
2. Some people think they can get more spin on the cue ball with a small tip. I think that has less to do with the tip than with the perceived contact point. When you are spinning the ball, it is the shoulder of the tip rather than the center of the tip that contacts the cue ball. If the center of the tip is in the same place, a smaller diameter of tip will contact the cue ball farther from center than a larger tip, and you will get more apparent spin. So, you will need to aim farther off center with a larger tip to get the same spin for a given speed.
3. Some people like softer tips because they seem to hold chalk better. Some people like harder tips because they seem to be more consistent. I suggest you try a variety of tips. Until you decide on a kind of tip that suits your game, don't waste your money on a layered tip. Also, learn to replace your tip yourself.

 

[genomachino]

Good answer...........

1. All other things being equal, a larger diameter tip (and ferrule and shaft) will cause more squirt (AKA deflection).
2. Some people think they can get more spin on the cue ball with a small tip. I think that has less to do with the tip than with the perceived contact point. When you are spinning the ball, it is the shoulder of the tip rather than the center of the tip that contacts the cue ball. If the center of the tip is in the same place, a smaller diameter of tip will contact the cue ball farther from center than a larger tip, and you will get more apparent spin. So, you will need to aim farther off center with a larger tip to get the same spin for a given speed.
3. Some people like softer tips because they seem to hold chalk better. Some people like harder tips because they seem to be more consistent. I suggest you try a variety of tips. Until you decide on a kind of tip that suits your game, don't waste your money on a layered tip. Also, learn to replace your tip yourself.

Explaination is spot on as usual//////////

 

[336Robin]

Tip Diameter

1. All other things being equal, a larger diameter tip (and ferrule and shaft) will cause more squirt (AKA deflection).
2. Some people think they can get more spin on the cue ball with a small tip. I think that has less to do with the tip than with the perceived contact point. When you are spinning the ball, it is the shoulder of the tip rather than the center of the tip that contacts the cue ball. If the center of the tip is in the same place, a smaller diameter of tip will contact the cue ball farther from center than a larger tip, and you will get more apparent spin. So, you will need to aim farther off center with a larger tip to get the same spin for a given speed.
3. Some people like softer tips because they seem to hold chalk better. Some people like harder tips because they seem to be more consistent. I suggest you try a variety of tips. Until you decide on a kind of tip that suits your game, don't waste your money on a layered tip. Also, learn to replace your tip yourself.

Bob,
Thankyou for #2 in the above post. I was involved in a thread a lot time ago where tip diameter and resulting spin was the subject. As a Bank Pool Player, I and a good friend of mine who is a better banker than myself have noted that smaller diameter tips and consequently shafts as well are more difficult to bank with than...13mm short tapers and house cues with stiff shafts as a general rule. I accept your reasoning in #2 for that..mainly because its evident that a larger tip is not as sensitive to off position movements as the small tip diameter and this would explain what my friend and myself have experienced. I do note that from playing banks with a smaller diameter tip and shaft that it can be done but the tolerance level for a perfect stroke and delivery to the cue ball are more essential.

It had been argued on the thread that our claims of..smaller tip=more spin was percieved as wrong and it was just bad tip placement....and now I believe I understand that as true...although the smaller tip..has less tolerance for error according to your post and I agree. I just did not have a good explanation for it. Banking with a small tip feels as if you are walking on fence rail that is easily fallen off of.

 

[CJ Wiley]

tip size effecting banking accuracy (due to spin)

Bob,
Thankyou for #2 in the above post. I was involved in a thread a lot time ago where tip diameter and resulting spin was the subject. As a Bank Pool Player, I and a good friend of mine who is a better banker than myself have noted that smaller diameter tips and consequently shafts as well are more difficult to bank with than...13mm short tapers and house cues with stiff shafts as a general rule. I accept your reasoning in #2 for that..mainly because its evident that a larger tip is not as sensitive to off position movements as the small tip diameter and this would explain what my friend and myself have experienced. I do note that from playing banks with a smaller diameter tip and shaft that it can be done but the tolerance level for a perfect stroke and delivery to the cue ball are more essential.

It had been argued on the thread that our claims of..smaller tip=more spin was percieved as wrong and it was just bad tip placement....and now I believe I understand that as true...although the smaller tip..has less tolerance for error according to your post and I agree. I just did not have a good explanation for it. Banking with a small tip feels as if you are walking on fence rail that is easily fallen off of.

I agree with your assessment of the tip size effecting banking accuracy (due to spin). I'm making a TOI Pivot Banking video and I am using my normal sized shaft and at first it was challenging, but in the end it really "fine tuned" my stroke accuracy. If I was going to play "Bank Pool" I would use close to a 13 mm tip, however, I would never use over 12.5 for playing any regular pocket billiard games.

The smaller tips don't deflect as much, but the spin is "touchy" and if you're not precise with cue ball targeting you can expect to miss some "spin banks" by several inches. With a 13 mm I don't believe this would be so drastic. imho

 

[ENGLISH!]

1. All other things being equal, a larger diameter tip (and ferrule and shaft) will cause more squirt (AKA deflection).

Mr. Jewitt,

Just to clarify the above statement & avoid any misunderstanding:

Would you agree that the above is mostly only due to the additional front end weight of the larger diameter shaft?

For instance, would it be possible for a larger 13 mm tipped shaft to be drilled out on the front resulting in it having an equal or even less amount of 'squirt'/deflection than a solid 11.75 mm tipped shaft, 'all other things being equal'?

In other words, if ALL other things are truely equal such as the total weight & distribution of weight so as to make the balance points equal, would the larger 13mm shaft still have more squirt/deflection than the smaller diameter shaft?

I believe the answer is no, unless the center line upon contact is farther out & we are then getting down to 1/2 of the 1.25 mm difference in the diameters, which would be .5125 mm which could certainly be offset by a slightly different tip shape so that the contact points could be very nearly the same with the center lines also very nearly the same.

Also if the drilling out actually made the front end of the larger 13 mm tipped shaft lighter, it would have less 'squirt'/deflection than the smaller 11.75 mm solid & heavier front end shaft.

Do I have all of this correct?

Thanks in advance for you input.

Regards,

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Would you agree that the above is mostly only due to the additional front end weight of the larger diameter shaft?
...

Yes. For more info about squirt, check out Ron Shepard's paper, "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Cue Ball Squirt, But Were Afraid to Ask" which was written in 2001 and is available in several places on-line. It is remarkable how few pool people are familiar with its contents.

 

[CJ Wiley]

My favorite cue had ivory to start with and I sent it back

Yes. For more info about squirt, check out Ron Shepard's paper, "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Cue Ball Squirt, But Were Afraid to Ask" which was written in 2001 and is available in several places on-line. It is remarkable how few pool people are familiar with its contents.

That is an interesting article, Bob, the only thing, from my experience, that I question is the part about ferrule material effecting squirt. I find that ivory ferrules, or joints for that matter, have an effect of making the the cue ball squirt more.

My favorite cue had ivory to start with and I sent it back the second day to have the ivory replaced. Bludworth sent the cue back and it was fine after that. I've experienced it in other cues since then regarding ivory.....I'm still not certain why this is the case.

 

[Bob Jewett]

That is an interesting article, Bob, the only thing, from my experience, that I question is the part about ferrule material effecting squirt. I find that ivory ferrules, or joints for that matter, have an effect of making the the cue ball squirt more.

My favorite cue had ivory to start with and I sent it back the second day to have the ivory replaced. Bludworth sent the cue back and it was fine after that. I've experienced it in other cues since then regarding ivory.....I'm still not certain why this is the case.

I think it's because the ivory is denser than most ferrule materials and is about twice as dense as wood. A nice long, thick-walled ferrule can add a lot of weight right up front. Most snooker cues have brass ferrules but they avoid squirt by being thin-walled and short.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes. For more info about squirt, check out Ron Shepard's paper, "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Cue Ball Squirt, But Were Afraid to Ask" which was written in 2001 and is available in several places on-line. It is remarkable how few pool people are familiar with its contents.

Thanks for the clarification & the suggested reading.

Regards,

 

[Mitchxout]

Is the typical ferrule material lighter or heavier than maple shaftwood?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Is the typical ferrule material lighter or heavier than maple shaftwood?

I think typical material is heavier. Maple floats and I suspect ferrule material doesn't. I think several cue companies use special ferrule material that's lighter.

 

[Mitchxout]

I think typical material is heavier. Maple floats and I suspect ferrule material doesn't. I think several cue companies use special ferrule material that's lighter.

Very interesting, thank you very much. :thumbup:

 

[McChen]

i've never seen any ferrule material that was lighter than maple. even the low deflection ferrules aren't anywhere close to maple....they're lighter than typical ferrules but still around 1.7x heavier than maple.