What purpose does the BCA serve today?

[Bob Jewett]

Bruce...As usual, either you or your friend got it wrong. I was at the trade show, as I am every year, and total of non-pool-related booth space is less than 10% of the show. I saw no back yard furniture or barbeques. Whether you like it or not, many pool table retailers also display and sell "gameroom accessories" and bar setups. It's just part of the retail business.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Well, I think 10% is a little low for the Trade Show when it was at its peak. I recall a lot of spas, game room furniture, poker tables, .... That was back when it took a whole day just to tour the floor once. Now it takes about an hour.

Brunswick was not at the Trade Show this year.

 

[Maniac]

Where does the membership money go for the BCA? How is it spent? The players are getting crumbs again, and now it seems like the door is shut tight, while the good-old-boy industry members look out for nobody's interests except their own.

Kind of reminds me of our country's politicians (Senate, Congress, the House of Representatives). Always getting a paycheck, but not really doing a damn thing to earn it, nor do they do anything for anybody that is worthwhile. Just taking care of themselves more or less.

I can't help but wonder what kind of a salary those BCA higher-ups are getting....and where the money comes from. I'm starting to think they only keep the BCA up-and-running so they can line their pockets with some easily made coin.

Maniac

 

[Island Drive]

Kind of reminds me of our country's politicians (Senate, Congress, the House of Representatives). Always getting a paycheck, but not really doing a damn thing to earn it, nor do they do anything for anybody that is worthwhile. Just taking care of themselves more or less.

I can't help but wonder what kind of a salary those BCA higher-ups are getting....and where the money comes from. I'm starting to think they only keep the BCA up-and-running so they can line their pockets with some easily made coin.

Maniac

The irony, as I've said before. The BCA Board of Directors and pro players actions are near identical....''what's in in it for ME''. Short term thinking.

Non profit law is the umbrella the BCA operates under (501c3?), if we could get as Few Mfg on the BCA board as possible, and increase the remainder of the board to industry members that can think ''outside the box'' and look LONG TERM, things could change.
Allot of the coffer dollars are from rights of ownership they have for ideas or things within the industry they have control over, and they get it Every year. I think by law all records of Non profits are within the public domain.

 

[scratchs]

To the best of my knowledge, several statements above are false. Specifically:

The BCA got rid of the leagues not because they were not successful but because they were successful. There were about 6000 players at the Nationals the year before the leagues were sold. Members of the BCA Board demanded that the BCA get rid of them. In my view the loss of the leagues and the revenue they brought in is the major reason the BCA has no resources now.

The instructors' program is still administered by the BCA but it is now called the PBIA. The name change was to comply with a demand from a BCA Board member. Here is their contact info:
Professional Billiard Instructors Association
c/o Billiard Congress of America
10900 West 120th Ave., Unit B7
Broomfield, CO 80021

Wasn't this about the time ACS tryed to move in on the bcapl too.

I remember at one time ACS was Trying to get our area to switch
memberships..this was in 04..there was a pretty big stink over it.
so much so , that it just died away..now it could have been just some
seeing another chance at making a little cash on the side.

I never got why some would think a pool hall would give them money
in the first place..or vise versa..just don't get that kind of thinking.

I've always enjoyed reading your articles keep up the good work.

 

[Roger Long]

A few years ago my friend John who has done the BCA Show in Lost Wages. NV and other places for over 15 years. Returned home to Surprise, AZ where he is kind of a POOL SUPPLY TRUNK MERCHANT, no brick and mortar operation. Just sell stuff slightly over cost to a circle of by referral clients.

John said to me I am done going to the BCA Trade Show, because there was more back yard furniture, game room accessories, barbecues, and non POOL related stuff than Pool related stuff.

Maybe BCA forgot the "B" in BCA stands for billiards????

This post from Bruce (Cocobolo Cowboy) is a prime example of one of my main concerns. Bruce openly admits that his friend "John" is a "trunker;" a common term in the industry for anyone who basically sells product out of the trunk of their car, which in turn means that they have no business license, no resale tax permit, and no overhead. In other words, they are illegitimate dealers who have a distinct competitive advantage over legitimate dealers. And yet, "John" and others like him are welcomed into the BCA trade show, and can buy product for resale from BCA members who should be protecting their legitimate dealers. And this is just one example of the BCA's many questionable practices, so is it any wonder why they are struggling to maintain a viable reason to exist?

Bruce, please give me the full name of your trunker friend; I'd like to talk to him. I think the State of Arizona might be interested in talking to him, also. (We'll not even consider the BCA, because it's already obvious that they don't care.)

Roger

 

[JuicyGirl]

These are all dead marketing strategies. Online, social and local search strategies are the only drivers of high volume quality foot traffic today.

Hey Scott,



I know you've been to the shows because I see you there every year. While it is true that the last few years have been almost exclusively billiards, there was a time not so many years ago when the BCA tradeshow was trying to expand. They even changed the name to something like "home recreation show". I specifically remember the "new vendor pavilion" a few years ago that feature pool and spa manufacturers, and maybe a few other non-billiards related entities (saunas??).



Considering that attendance and participation have both dropped so significantly since 2007, it is no wonder the show has nothing other than billiards anymore. Matter of fact, there is almost nothing there to see anyways. We set up a booth for the first time since 2009, just to try and continue to support the show and reach out to customers, but It's harder and harder to justify the expense.



BB King said famously - "The Thrills is Gone" - and unfortunately, this seems to be the case for the BCA trade show for the time being.



There are some options that may provide some redeeming qualities for the BCA though -



Take the money they normally spend on a worthless trade show and



1 - Launch a TV ad campaign promoting the benefits of pool



or



2 - Launch a national billboard campaign promoting the benefits of pool



or



3 - Launch a radio ad campaign promoting the benefits of pool



or



4 - Conduct and Promote a Pro Event (to be filmed and aired on ESPN) in conjunction with a Consumer Expo and launch an ad campaign to promote it to both a local and national audience



or



(insert various options that would be far superior to whatever floundering and worthless ideas they have explored for the past 4 or 5 years)



The BCA does very little to offer value to it's membership and/or to promote billiards in any fashion. It seems to me like it has turned into a tradeshow entity...existing from year to year with only the tradeshow as its saving grace. Unfortunately, there won't be much to save if there are so few business left to buy booths, and so few customers left to attend the show.



The BCA has lacked any true vision to guide it, and its leadership has been suspect since I got into this industry about a decade ago.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

 

[carter1984]

These are all dead marketing strategies. Online, social and local search strategies are the only drivers of high volume quality foot traffic today.



This may be true for a specific location or business, but I was pushing more towards a "got milk" campaign that was conducted the Dairy Farmers Association, or "Beef, it's what's for dinner" campaign driven by the cattle farmers association.

Social networking and SEO are key components as well, but TV still rules the advertising world when it comes to catching eyeballs.

Regardless of the method, the point was that the BCA should be promoting pool to the general public. Convincing people through ads (even if it is viral) that playing pool is cool, sociable, an inexpensive entertainment alternative in today's rocky economic climate, a great way to meet new friends, an opportunity for families and friends to bond over a game on the home table...etc.

 

[carter1984]

Wasn't this about the time ACS tryed to move in on the bcapl too.

I remember at one time ACS was Trying to get our area to switch
memberships..this was in 04..there was a pretty big stink over it.
so much so , that it just died away..now it could have been just some
seeing another chance at making a little cash on the side.

I never got why some would think a pool hall would give them money
in the first place..or vise versa..just don't get that kind of thinking.

I've always enjoyed reading your articles keep up the good work.

When the non-profit leagues were sold by the BCA to a private owner, it created a rift. The former administrator of the non-profit leagues founded the ACS since he believed in the vision and structure of the league.

To me, it's a little misleading to say that the ACS tried to "move in" on the BCAPL. It's more like the BCAPL changed hands, and an alternative to the new management sprouted from the previous management.

I'm not advocating for either. I just wish more people would play pool in general, either with a league or without.

 

[Scott Lee]

Not exactly true either, Bob. The main objective of the name change was to create an umbrella organization open to any and all professional instructors, and to diminish the internal and external rivalries between the BCA and other organizations (think APA and ACS).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

The name change was to comply with a demand from a BCA Board member.

 

[Roger Long]

The instructors' program is still administered by the BCA but it is now called the PBIA. The name change was to comply with a demand from a BCA Board member. Here is their contact info:
Professional Billiard Instructors Association
c/o Billiard Congress of America
10900 West 120th Ave., Unit B7
Broomfield, CO 80021

Bob:

The chairman of the BCA instructors committee reported in these forums a while back that the name change to PBIA was because the instructors had gained full control of the program, and the BCA has no role in that program other than to maintain records for them.

This is another area of concern for me. Back when I was still on the list of certified BCA instructors, it was pretty easy to calculate the membership revenue that the instructor program was taking in by going to the instructors list and adding up the number of Master, Advanced, Certified, and Recognized instructors, and then multiplying the sum of each category by their respective annual dues. Doing so, would bring you to a total of around $18,000 annual revenue that was coming from instructor's dues. I used to wonder what was happening with all that money, when I never saw any real benefits being returned to the instructors? For example: extra benefits, like the Instructor's Manual and continuing education seminars, were additional expenses to the instructors. Did it really cost the BCA that much money to administer a certified instructor program?

Roger

 

[Scott Lee]

IMO, it's not misleading in the least. John, Cecil and a few others went far out of their way to slander Mark, and convince the current BCA league players that going with Mark's league would be a total disaster (obstensibly because it would be "for profit"). Obviously, now almost a decade later, that is not now, and never was the case. The BCAPL continues to grow, while the ACS is a small competitor. Not saying there isn't room for both leagues, as there are many competitor leagues out there, and more starting up every year. The APA is, and will remain the Big Dog amateur pool league.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

To me, it's a little misleading to say that the ACS tried to "move in" on the BCAPL. It's more like the BCAPL changed hands, and an alternative to the new management sprouted from the previous management.

 

[Scott Lee]

double post...deleted

 

[carter1984]

IMO, it's not misleading in the least. John, Cecil and a few others went far out of their way to slander Mark, and convince the current BCA league players that going with Mark's league would be a total disaster (obstensibly because it would be "for profit"). Obviously, now almost a decade later, that is not now, and never was the case. The BCAPL continues to grow, while the ACS is a small competitor. Not saying there isn't room for both leagues, as there are many competitor leagues out there, and more starting up every year. The APA is, and will remain the Big Dog amateur pool league.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Personally I can't speak to any specifics of slander or anyone going out of their way to convince anyone of anything. I just know that the ACS splintered when the league was sold.

I'm not a member of either league, nor did I know any members of either league on a personal basis. APA dominates unquestionably in my region so neither of these stands a chance until the current APA LO sells or retires.

 

[jeffj2h]

What would you like them to do? If pool halls are closing maybe they need to look at their makeup.

Something the BCA could do to help the industry would be to hire a business consulting company to profile what thriving pool halls are doing. Analyze the local demographics, ingress and egress to the building, the menu, the prices, the smoke or lack of, the staff practices, type of equipment, music, merchandise offered, cleanness, rent, taxes, COGS, etc. Systematically figure out if there are best practices that can then be shared. Then pick pilot pool halls to help implement changes and track the effects.

Then convert all of this into a "Pool Hall Rescue" reality show, hosted by Earl.

 

[Roger Long]

Personally, I feel they should remove themselves from being the governing body of pool in the eyes of the WPA. They do nothing to promote pool in North America, yet that is who they are supposed to be representing.

Let them continue business as usual and be the industry member organization that they are and support the manufacturers of recreational equipment. Nothing wrong with that. :smile:

I agree with you, Jennie. The BCA has already effectively removed themselves from being the governing body of billiards in America, so they should officially remove themselves as the American representative to the WPA, also.

Here's what I'm talking about. The BCA used to sponsor and sanction professional tournaments, but now they don't. I know that supporting the pros has never a money-making venture, but then again, it's not supposed to be. The purpose for supporting professional players is to get the kind of feedback that only they can provide to any organizations that are charged with the responsibilities of maintaining comprehensive rule books and with staying on top of sports trends. The pros are loss leaders, not profit generators. They provide a valuable service to organizations like the BCA, and they deserve to get paid something for it.

The same can be said for the amateur players. The BCA used to own and operate a league system, but now they don't. The amateur players, IMO, are just as valuable as the pros (maybe even more so). The amateur leagues represent a huge cross section of players when it comes to evaluating consumer trends and personal preferences. I just don't see how the BCA could possibly distance their organization from amateur and pro players, and still consider themselves to be the "governing body" over them.

The irony of the whole thing is that we have an organization (BCA) that offers no real benefits to it's members; offers no real support to professional players; and wants no affiliation with amateur players; and yet retains the right to make the rules on how the game is played. It's just weird.

Roger

 

[ivicafranic]

No purpose

 

[Roger Long]

Something the BCA could do to help the industry would be to hire a business consulting company to profile what thriving pool halls are doing. Analyze the local demographics, ingress and egress to the building, the menu, the prices, the smoke or lack of, the staff practices, type of equipment, music, merchandise offered, cleanness, rent, taxes, COGS, etc. Systematically figure out if there are best practices that can then be shared. Then pick pilot pool halls to help implement changes and track the effects.

Then convert all of this into a "Pool Hall Rescue" reality show, hosted by Earl.

If you go to the BCA website and look under "membership benefits," you will see that they claim to have already done this. The problem(s) is/are, the survey was done almost six years ago (so it's old info), and the results are only available for free to BCA members. But if you want the results as a non-member, you can download the report for a mere $250.

From what I've seen, that's the most alluring "benefit" the BCA offers to prospective members, and it's still miserably lacking in real substance.

Roger

 

[randyg]

Who/What would replace the BCA?

randyg

 

[Roger Long]

Who/What would replace the BCA?

randyg

Does it need replacing? If it doesn't serve any good purpose, maybe it just needs to go completely away.

Roger

 

[tatcat2000]

...and yet retains the right to make the rules on how the game is played...

Depends on what you mean by "rules" and "rights".

If you are talking about administrative decisions surrounding things other than the game on the table, you may well be correct under various circumstances.

If you are talking about game rules, not so much. The BCA currently does not display any apparent interest whatsoever in the content of the rules.

* They have no rules committee.
* They do not write any rules. With respect to WSR, all they do is parrot what the WPA gives them. Outside of the WPA regulated games, I am not aware of any text changes in the ancillary games since at least 2008, if not longer.
* They dropped any reference to rules from their Mission Statement years ago.
* They maintain no referee program of any kind whatsoever.
* To the best of my knowledge, rules questions concerning WSR addressed to the BCA are, for the most part, referred to the BCAPL for a response, and some of those inquiries make their way to me on occasion if Bill is snowed under. Despite the fact that most CSI events do not use WSR, and the fact that there are several significant differences between WSR and BCAPL rules, the BCAPL rules are still rooted firmly in WSR and the BCAPL senior staff (especially Bill and I) is probably as well or better versed in WSR than most.

In short, they have nothing to do with the rules of the game other than to publish their book. On top of that, anyone buying the book in order to get WSR information is wasting their $$$. It can be copied from the WPA site for nothing. :smile:

- edit -

In the event of a WPA rules conference, they might name a delegate, but it won't be anyone from their internal staff. They will just outsource to a known knowledgeable person, as they did for the 2008 re-write.

Buddy Eick
CSI National Head Referee
CSI Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League
bca_referee@yahoo.com

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.