What the pros do differently ...

[jbart65]

I think the use of draw has more to do with the new cloth that most pros play on during these tournaments.

Because they get more out of draw, or they don't want the CB to move as much?

 

[Badpenguin]

Because they get more out of draw, or they don't want the CB to move as much?

Slick cloth makes it harder to control where the cue ball will go off of multiple rails. That, and if the table is playing fast, I think it is easier to limit cue ball travel by using draw.

 

[George the Greek]

I cannot describe it but I have played pros before. They just don't miss. Whatever you think they are going to do, pattern of play, they do it with very little effort. On TV, while impressive, is nothing when you see them do it against you.

I've had it done to me and not a nice feeling for sure. I don't know if it was stage fright being the underdog but I was definately a spectator

 

[ShootingArts]

A pro playing an amateur is a much different animal than a pro playing a pro. The pro knows all the pressure is on the amateur and they can freewheel usually. String a few games and you will see the pro's best game. Otherwise they are taking chances and extending runs with shots they wouldn't take against another pro level player.

Hu

 

[Ken_4fun]

The difference I see between "old pros" and "new pros" is the absolute perfection of position and control of the cueball verses the "new" guys with incredible shotmaking skills.

I have watched many old pros and shortstops run racks and never shooting a difficult looking shot. Many folks remarked, "Hell, I could run out everytime too if I had such easy shots" The point they were missing was control of the cueball WAS THE SHOT.

Watching Buddy Hall years ago, and in the poolroom that we played in, he never shot a difficult shot, he never had to.

Ken

 

[garczar]

Back before perfect lab-grade conditions most good players preferred drawing the ball as it was a firmer struck shot and less susceptible to the rolls of dirty/worn shit cloth. Most guys i was around rarely followed the ball unless that was the only way to get there.

 

[Black-Balled]

The tables at my pool definitely aren't preventing anyone from using draw. I never see anyone practice draw shots, though. Never.
.

Hard to take that statement seriously for a reason other than it supports your allegation.

There are many ways to play great pool and there are things to learn and NOT learn everywhere.

Follow is more predictable than draw. Just the way it is...not asking.

How much moreso? 3%? 23%?No idea...but if you could be 95% or 85% on a given shot,...I know what I'd choose.

 

[jbart65]

Hard to take that statement seriously for a reason other than it supports your allegation.

It's not an allegation. It's an observation. I watch how players around me practice to see if I can learn anything.

That said, some players have clearly practiced draw even if I don't see them. Some are quite adept when I play them.

There are many ways to play great pool and there are things to learn and NOT learn everywhere.

True. I am not advocating anyone use anything. I am just finding my own way, as we all do.

Follow is more predictable than draw. Just the way it is...not asking.

There is no debate about this. I use follow as much as I can because it is so predictable.

But I am also incorporating more draw into my game when applicable. That's is why I watch the pros intently on how and when they use it.

 

[RandyinHawaii]

I

For me, what stands out is how much slower pros are with their backswing and (usually) pause at the back. I'm still trying to slow my shot cadence down, but decades of bad habits are hard to undo.

Ditto for me. I am trying to incorporate Mark Wilson's "Ladies and gentlemen" for my stroke cadence.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Stun-draw

What's that?

pj
chgo

 

[jbart65]

What's that?

pj
chgo

 

[garczar]

Tough shot on slow/worn cloth. On fresh rug its pretty easy. NF hits it sweet.

 

[Cornerman]

Watching the Premier League of pool and really focusing on it, I was struck by how pros play differently from decent everyday players and even really good amateurs.

It's no surprise, of course. They obviously have better skills and more precision than mere mortals.

The two things that have struck me the most are the use of draw and coming into the line of the shot.

The pros use draw a lot more than amateur players, from what I can see.

At my pool hall, players use draw now and then for pulling the ball straight back, but very few do long draws. And many of them don't use draw all that much for shots with a lot more angle. Stun-draw, for instance.

The pros also come across the line of a shot a lot more than I would have thought. And often with draw shots.

Am I wrong? Right?

What do you notice the pros doing differently than amateurs, and do you try to incorporate it into your game?

You are correct. And that holds true for the top amateurs as well. Lot more draw.. Side spin on most shots, even if it's not seemingly necessary. Going across the line. But not for some show off reason. It's just sometimes the use and execution of all those things make the game easier.

 

[Black-Balled]

It's not an allegation. It's an observation. I watch how players around me practice to see if I can learn anything.

That said, some players have clearly practiced draw even if I don't see them. Some are quite adept when I play them.

True. I am not advocating anyone use anything. I am just finding my own way, as we all do.

There is no debate about this. I use follow as much as I can because it is so predictable.

But I am also incorporating more draw into my game when applicable. That's is why I watch the pros intently on how and when they use it.

We're on the same page then.

Only reactionary comment: every shot is practice!

 

[jbart65]

You are correct. And that holds true for the top amateurs as well. Lot more draw.. Side spin on most shots, even if it's not seemingly necessary. Going across the line. But not for some show off reason. It's just sometimes the use and execution of all those things make the game easier.

Joshua Filler really stands out to me as player who uses centerball more regularly than other players and who avoids unnecessary spin. Ko Ping-Yi as well.

Filler also seems to accept longer but eminently makeable shots instead of using spin to close the distance. I wonder if that is what helps him to be so accurate.

 

[Cornerman]

Joshua Filler really stands out to me as player who uses centerball more regularly than other players and who avoids unnecessary spin. Ko Ping-Yi as well.

Filler also seems to accept longer but eminently makeable shots instead of using spin to close the distance. I wonder if that is what helps him to be so accurate.

It only seems that way on YouTube. When you're right next to the players, you can see they go to the edges just like everyone else does. I remember people always saying that Buddy Hall likes to stay near the center, yet every time I watched him live, you could see that he was so far to the edge that it looked like he was sure to miscue. Same with JL Chang. I actually was sitting with an internet poster, and he literally gasped when he saw JL shoot so far to the edge, and we had this same type of conversation (that he always thought JL stayed pretty close to center).

I think the way these guys strike the ball just gives that odd perception. These players didn't become the best at their craft by somehow avoiding English.

 

[dquarasr]

I posted about this a few weeks ago to a lukewarm reception. I’ve only collected a few more racks’ worth of data since. I’m still planning to publish results on that thread for the few who were interested

Data on types of position methods

Some of the recent discussions on shape, plus some recently viewed videos on shot lines got me thinking. I have been watching a number of "pro" videos (Billiard TV, available in my area via Xumo is mildly addicting! 24x7 POOL!), and I've been...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Bob Jewett]

I posted about this a few weeks ago to a lukewarm reception. I’ve only collected a few more racks’ worth of data since. ...

I just counted shots for the first few racks of the PLP finals (SVB/KPY). I stopped when one category got to 30. I counted jumps and safes separately, so I was just looking at normal stokes with intent to pocket a ball.

Draw: 30
Stun: 15
Follow: 26

This is a little skewed by the fact that all the break shots were played with draw (8). Subtract from the above if you want.

Conclusion on this limited data set: the pros hit the ball below center a lot. (Most stun shots are hit somewhat below center.)

 

[jbart65]

It only seems that way on YouTube. When you're right next to the players, you can see they go to the edges just like everyone else does. I remember people always saying that Buddy Hall likes to stay near the center, yet every time I watched him live, you could see that he was so far to the edge that it looked like he was sure to miscue. Same with JL Chang. I actually was sitting with an internet poster, and he literally gasped when he saw JL shoot so far to the edge, and we had this same type of conversation (that he always thought JL stayed pretty close to center).

I think the way these guys strike the ball just gives that odd perception. These players didn't become the best at their craft by somehow avoiding English.

I don’t think it was Youtube or DAZN. I watched Filler, SVB and Gorst very closely for the past week.

Even from TV it was evident (apparent?) to me that SVB used more spin more often Filler. I could tell by the rebound angle off the cushion, too.

Gorst was closer to SVB, but he, like Filler, is so precise it wasn’t always easy to tell.

You are right, though. The top pros don’t avoid English and are not afraid of it. They can be very aggressive with it.

Filler, too. Yet his positioning is so good he doesn’t seem to have to use as much as often.

 

[jbart65]

I just counted shots for the first few racks of the PLP finals (SVB/KPY). I stopped when one category got to 30. I counted jumps and safes separately, so I was just looking at normal stokes with intent to pocket a ball.

Draw: 30
Stun: 15
Follow: 26

This is a little skewed by the fact that all the break shots were played with draw (8). Subtract from the above if you want.

Conclusion on this limited data set: the pros hit the ball below center a lot. (Most stun shots are hit somewhat below center.)

Sometimes it seems the pros start with a low tip position on every shot!

Another thing I am working more into my game. Softer shots from a lower tip position, especially on stun or stop shots.