What would YOU do here?

TATE said:
I agree with this.

The first goal of any player is to make sure you hit the 8. The 2nd goal is to get safe. Since the 9 will help block the opposite corner pocket, any soft hit on the 8 will probably leave a difficult shot of some sort.

Main thing is to not completely sell out here and the biggest sell out is trying to get cute and missing the 8 altogether.

Chris
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Don't forget also that choosing either this or the two rail safe from behind the nine are the only places you're not jacked up over the pocket as well....

That's one reason why I would choose the one rail kick safe. I would try to hit the backs side because you leave a longer shot, but you also potentially leave a bank into the side too, so it's not a position that I would want to be in to have to choose...lol


Jaden
 
#1 I would definitely learn the two rail kick. While you're at it, practice other kick shots with various kinds of english sighting the ball in through the edge of the pocket.

#2 This shot isn't really worth debating and spending all that much time on. I would chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
 
I think the reason your cue ball did not react as you thought it would is because of the speed you shot. Going two rails and then banking the object ball cross corner required a heavy hit. Much too hard for a simple one rail kick. You lost the cue balls spin shooting it too hard. My choice would have been a slow two rail safe around the nine. luck prevails and that's all that really matters. Going one rail was the safest and easiest hit. It also is the easiest sell out.
 
Switching to voice of Jester Jump Cue guy Dominic E.

Is the cueball actually touching the cushion point? I can't do it, but guys who can jump a ball within a credit card space could surely jump the lower height of a cushion. If the cueball landed slightly on the nose of the cushion then the 8 ball, it would probably end up 2-rail safe with the 8 ball on the end rail. Or it could hit the 8 more full leaving the cueball on the end rail and leave the 8 tough. OR best of all, if it hit the 8 fuller the cueball could actually luck the 9 in!!! Would landing on the cushion nose be legal? Is Dominic Esposito on AZBilliards to answer what he would do with his jumping ability? I am sure someone will immediately find fault with my creativity but I only slept 5 hours last night so go easy on me, I am just trying to help.... I would try it just to try it, very aggressive if it worked.
 
mosconiac said:
If you know Little Joe Villalpando's "PoolIQ" systems, you would have no question as to what to do. Here's what the system tells me to do:

CueTable Help

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I'm probably going this way. Grady Mathews also explains this system in one of his kicking tapes.

And I also subscribe to the idea of, "If it's tough either way, give yourself a chance to win the game".
 
I've seen similar 2 rail kick method elsewhere .. maybe it was Jimmy Reid's video (?). But even for my level of playing, it seems to work.
 
mosconiac said:
If you know Little Joe Villalpando's "PoolIQ" systems, you would have no question as to what to do. Here's what the system tells me to do:

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
The Plus System also works fairly well for shots like this if you've practiced enough to have a good feel for speed, English, and extreme-track effects. For more info, see the articles and video here:

Regards,
Dave
 
Neil said:
I know many will disagree with me, but it is what I would and have done. I feel the two rail shot CAN give you the win, but odds are you will sell out. You better know just how that table banks for two rails. I prefer just going one rail. While I have made this shot in practice going one rail, the odds of making it are not good.

Instead, I like to carefully divide the area in half, and hit there. The object is to hit the side of the 8 and with the right speed to put it on the end rail. The cb comes off and leaves him going for the bank or a safe and probably using the bridge to do it.

Yes, if you don't hit it good, you sell out also. But, I find it easier to aim it one rail and be accurate.

CueTable Help

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Neil,

Even though I like the Plus System for two-rail kicks, my first instinct here agreed with yours. The one-rail kick safety (using the rolling-CB, through-diamond, 1-rail kick system) is probably a higher percentage play to win the game for most people. Although, I'd still be tempted to go for the two-rail kick; and depending on my mood (and opponent), I might go for the gold.

Regards,
Dave
 
I can guarantee to those of you that would try the two rail kick on THAT table - the results would probably throw you into shock.

But then I am no expert, just a player that's been around awhile. :D
 
I actually really like your selection....

Underclocked said:
:D

I considered the two rail shot. My reason for not shooting that shot is these tables... they have recently been leveled and recovered with a nappy cloth. Something about that cloth is making any English at all very unpredictable. The more rails involved, the greater the strange behavior.

So I elected to attempt to go one rail, banking back from the right end rail with enough high left to force the cue back to contact the eight and perhaps make it in the near corner.

What happened instead was ridiculously lucky. :D The cue ball came back somewhat as intended but missed the eight, contacting the left cushion, then contacting the eight at just the right angle to head it toward the far lower right corner.

As the 8 appoached that corner, it became obvious that it lacked the steam to make all the way into the pocket. Cue ball to the rescue! Here it came, bouncing off that lower right cushion, barely clipping the 8 at the perfect angle and giving it the needed energy to make it into the corner.

The cue ball was barely deflected by the contact and wound up as shown giving me an easy shot on the 9.

Hope this diagram makes sense to you.

2ykfktt.jpg


Sometimes I get lucky, eh Tanner? :grin: :grin:
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I don't see anyone on here agreeing with your selection, but I like it. In 3-cushion terms, you are making this a pretty big ball. I tried the various shots last night and your selection came out higher percentage safe than the one rail across or the two railer. And not that much chance of scratching if you use your reverse less than a diamond out on the end rail.
 
Thanks. I've made that shot many times but not on these particular tables.

I should have called a time out and practiced the shot on another table before trying it for real. ;) :grin:
 
If I shoot at the 8, almost any miss (even if I hit the 8 legally) is loss of game. If the pockets are reasonably tight and I'm not playing Earl or SVB (I've never played them), I would consider putting the 9 ball on the right short rail. The diagram makes a shot at the 9 look possible. Avoiding a double kiss appears to be the only potential problem. Give ball in hand to your opponent and force him/her to make the 8 and get shape on the 9. Even with ball in hand, the shot on the 8 needs to be pretty firm. From my experience, the likelihood of my opponent either bobbling the 8 in the corner or lining up with little to no angle on the 9 is higher than my chance of making the 8.
 
Sealegs50 said:
If I shoot at the 8, almost any miss (even if I hit the 8 legally) is loss of game. If the pockets are reasonably tight and I'm not playing Earl or SVB (I've never played them), I would consider putting the 9 ball on the right short rail. The diagram makes a shot at the 9 look possible. Avoiding a double kiss appears to be the only potential problem. Give ball in hand to your opponent and force him/her to make the 8 and get shape on the 9. Even with ball in hand, the shot on the 8 needs to be pretty firm. From my experience, the likelihood of my opponent either bobbling the 8 in the corner or lining up with little to no angle on the 9 is higher than my chance of making the 8.
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How are you intending to shoot the 9 to the right hand short rail???....That looks like a challenge all its own. more than likely you are going to get some kind of double kiss trying to get the 9-ball out of the corner....or if you avoid the double kiss...the 9-ball will end up a hanger at the other end of the table

I don't know who you are playing, but I lose if I give up ball in hand...no matter where the 9 is.

The only way I don't lose in the very next inning by giving up ball in hand is to lock the 9 up with the 8-ball...good luck with doing that.

IMO.

I don't like the 1-rail kick...it gives you zero opportunity to win unless you hit it hard enough to bank cross corner or 3 rails into the side.....not likely.....getting safe is not likely either....more likely is the sell out in either corner pocket....Even if I do end up safe on the end rail.....I am next either going to have the 8 down on the opposite end rail or the CB....one of the two....Thats if the bank does not end up being "on" for the 8.

I don't like the masse spin off the end rail....the CB is stuck right up against the point and makes the outcome very unpredictable.

I like the 2 rail track....it gives you an opportunity to actually make the 8and win the game....and you still have an opportunity to end up safe if you don't make it....

Just this one guys opinion...:)
 
Some of these shot makign concept really tickle my funny bone :lol:



If you want to win is this situation than you shoot the long two railer for the win. Why play a two way shot? If you miss it you lose (or get lucky) and if you make it you still may lose..

Two words come to mind when i see this shot... No Brainer.


Good luck with all the other options :wink:
 
It is called the "plus 2" system. It works very well and this shot is right on the count. However i would prefer the one rail shot, rolling it fairly slow because I would expect a double kiss, and in most cases a good safe.

Btw, isn't there a youtube with Efren making this shot off the tip of the other side of the pocket? I'd do that, if I could.
 
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