What's going on in Florida

LastTwo said:
... I feel the pros deserve to make alot more money. When they start making the money they deserve, then I think always acting professional should be required, and I'm sure they will do it...

LastTwo, with due respect, I think it is in this assumption that you're mistaken. The amount pro athletes earn in any sport is a function of how much revenue they are able to produce for investors and sponsors. Some pro pool players, through their behavior, cheapen the pro pool proudct, and make it less marketable and less attractive to investors and sponsors than it could be. Like you, I want to see pro pool players make more money. Still, if, as a group, we fans want the pro players to earn more, we must stop being apologists for those that behave unprofessionally.

America is filled will underpaid hard workers, nearly all of whom still manage to do their jobs with at least as much class and dignity as those earning the big bucks. Forgive me if I choose to celebrate their efforts rather than those of the men's professional pool playing community.
 
No sanctioning body in Pool? Hogwash. Every tournament has a TD who is the sanctioning body of that tournament. He sets the rules for the tournament and the players either abide by them or don't play. If you don't like the antics of a player then don't blame him, blame the TD. But most TD's put up with the antics because they are just happy to have players play in their tournaments.

If you want a central sanctioning body then you organize all the TD's. Once you have the TD's then you will be able to control the players.

How many TD's are there out there that have a decent tour with a good following of players? Have them all meet and set up the guidelines that all players must abide by.

Since the UPA seems to be the only group that wants to organize the pros perhaps they can reach out to all the TD's. Have a meeting with them and get them all into one giant organization.

Then they could divide up the States with each TD given a section to run tournaments under direction of the UPA. Any player wishing to participate in any tournament would have to be a member of the UPA.

That is the way it works in Football, Baseball, Basketball, etc.

Earl is not the only player to give up the last 2-3-4 balls to a player. He is just the most noticeable one since everyone watches when Earl plays. Half of them to see him get beat and half of them to see him win.

Jake
 
sjm said:
...America is filled will underpaid hard workers, nearly all of whom still manage to do their jobs with at least as much class and dignity as those earning the big bucks. Forgive me if I choose to celebrate their efforts rather than those of the men's professional pool playing community.

One's vocation is a personal choice. The men's professional pool-playing community is a small lot. Most of the new generation of pool players are tournament-inclined, and many of the old-school players were grandfathered into this new frontier.

The payouts or income potential is the same today in 2004 as it was in 1974. Yet, the cost of living has risen dramatically in the last 30 years. I guess players like Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, and others were making more money THEN than today's pros. Is there any significance to the fact that they left the tournament trail, even though they're champions?

The stereotypical image of the male-dominated smoke-filled pool room frequented by scoundrels and scallywags is a thing of the past in today's pool world. For some, this portrait is still haunting, and for others, it's what is fascinating about pool, the study of human nature and behavioral science, the stuff movies are made of.

The forecast for any member of the current men's professional pool-playing community to become wealthy by competing in tournaments is grim, if not impossible. The rare few who do succeed are the ones currently on top of their game, many of them sponsored players. The rest of the crew is struggling. I would venture to guess that most of the full-time pool players today are unable to keep a roof over their heads from their pool-playing income.

The realization of what little the sport currently has to offer any professional pool player smacks me in the face every single time I go on the road.

Why do they do it? It's a matter of the individual's set of priorities in life. The ones who are not employed do it because of their passion to excel. Were they blessed with the ability to soar to heights of excellence on a field of green, or were they damned? In the end, players like Corey Deuel continue to pursue their dream. It's too bad they're only mere humans.

JAM
 

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JJinFLA said:
No sanctioning body in Pool? Hogwash. Every tournament has a TD who is the sanctioning body of that tournament. He sets the rules for the tournament and the players either abide by them or don't play...If you want a central sanctioning body, then you organize all the TD's. Once you have the TD's, then you will be able to control the players.....

Jake, in most UPA events, which is currently the so-called "governing body of men's professional pool," the sanctioning body is the UPA organization, which has a Rules Committee. The TD is most instances is only a free-lance vendor providing a service and is not a member of the UPA-sanctioning body.

JJinFLA said:
How many TD's are there out there that have a decent tour with a good following of players? Have them all meet and set up the guidelines that all players must abide by....

The TD's out there in today's pool world who have a decent tour have their own unique set of guidelines and run regional tours. The TD's of regional tours don't derive a means of income to live off of, and it truly is a thankless job (IMO).

JJinFLA said:
Since the UPA seems to be the only group that wants to organize the pros, perhaps they can reach out to all the TD's. Have a meeting with them and get them all into one giant organization...This is the way it works in football, baseball, basketball, et cetera....

The only TD I'm aware of that does this on a full-time basis is Scott "The Shot" Smith. I don't think there are enough tournaments in this country to warrant an accreditation body for TD's. Pocket billiards as a sport isn't near the level of PGA, MLB, NBA, and NFL.

JJinFLA said:
Earl is not the only player to give up the last 2-3-4 balls to a player. He is just the most noticeable one since everyone watches when Earl plays. Half of them to see him get beat, and half of them to see him win.

When I viewed his performance at the UPA-sanctioned Michelob Amberbock World Summit of Pool on ESPN, his level of play was nothing but excellent, and even though he is capable of losing, like the rest of us mortals, when the six-time world champion and five-time U.S. Open winner is in the pit and his game is on, he is fascinating to watch.

Unlike Mike Sigel, Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, he continues to follow the tournament trail. The harsh reality is he is a legend trapped in a sport which has nothing to offer, but this pool world wouldn't be as bright without him. I still like watching Earl play.

I once asked an old road legend why isn't he passionate about the game anymore, and his response was because he's been beaten up too bad over the years from the sport and all of its elements. There will NEVER be another Earl Strickland. He is still a high-caliber player and one of the most colorful characters today, which is why he is a good draw for promoters in any event he plays in. :p

JAM
 
JAM said:
The stereotypical image of the male-dominated smoke-filled pool room frequented by scoundrels and scallywags is a thing of the past in today's pool world.
JAM

JAM,
I'm not so sure that the stereotypical image you refer to does not still exist. It seems a picture perfect description of the action the last few nights here in Indy with the road player taking on all challengers. Lots of smoke, lots of railbirds, LOTS of money changing hands, rolls of hundreds big enough to choke a horse (I'm going to have to reserve judgement on the scoundrels and scallawags since I was there too).

As always, thanks for your input; hope to see Keith play at DCC (I just hope I don't draw him in the first round - no, wait, it would probably be a blast).
 
JAM said:
The forecast for any member of the current men's professional pool-playing community to become wealthy by competing in tournaments is grim, if not impossible. The rare few who do succeed are the ones currently on top of their game, many of them sponsored players. The rest of the crew is struggling. I would venture to guess that most of the full-time pool players today are unable to keep a roof over their heads from their pool-playing income.

Hi JAM,

I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool. Some will say Ronnie Allen. I want a player who still is! Sorry, Harry doesn't count! Didn't come from pool. We had this argument locally. Only one I know of is Larry Hubbart of the APA. His partner may be. I don't know that guys background. From their recent successes, Allen and Dawn Hopkins may be approaching that status. Whats your guess?
 
cardiac kid said:
Hi JAM,

I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool. Some will say Ronnie Allen. I want a player who still is! Sorry, Harry doesn't count! Didn't come from pool. We had this argument locally. Only one I know of is Larry Hubbart of the APA. His partner may be. I don't know that guys background. From their recent successes, Allen and Dawn Hopkins may be approaching that status. Whats your guess?


I really think there are not any Americans who have become millionaires just from playing pool. Johnny Archer or Strickland maybe close. Strickland maybe just from tournament wins and endorsements. Varner and Sigel are doing well, but mostly from selling cues and endorsements. After that the list is....well I think that is really the only ones who have kept their success in check....It is everything else that money is made in pool but not just by playing it...I am excluding gambling, only counting tournaments....
 
cardiac kid said:
Hi JAM, I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool. Some will say Ronnie Allen. I want a player who still is! Sorry, Harry doesn't count! Didn't come from pool. We had this argument locally. Only one I know of is Larry Hubbart of the APA. His partner may be. I don't know that guys background. From their recent successes, Allen and Dawn Hopkins may be approaching that status. Whats your guess?

I cannot think of one single American world-class pool player who has earned a million dollars or more from playing competitive pool via tournaments. Again, the expenses far exceed any potential to profit gainfully. Gambling, though, is another story. Due to the very nature of the disease, those who may have made a million bucks gambling have, more than likely, lost it back plus some, sad to say.

It is very telling when world-class players leave the game. I read with great interest the recent article in InsidePOOL magazine about Jimmy "Pretty Boy Floyd" Mataya, a great personality in the history of the sport. When a player is on top of their game, everybody loves a winner. When a player stumbles, grows old, or experiences a few setbacks in life, they're a loser, scum of the earth, and a punching bag for a few sick trolls on the Internet. Pool players come in many colors, but they are only human beings, capable of making bad judgments and mistakes in life, just like me.

Champions like Allen Hopkins, Jim Rempe, Mike Sigel, and others who have left the competitive arena to pursue other endeavors in the industry must have seen the forecast up ahead and were smart to get the hell out of the pit.

Steve Mitzerak, Willie Mosconi, and Minnesota Fats are three names that come to mind who managed to make a living in this beloved game due to media exposure. To date, there has not been one single pool player who has filled their shoes in the media.

Pool on TV needs a personality, not so much one single person. With the exception of the Skins Billiards Championship, which I thought was really cool and exciting, pool on TV is almost robotic. Even I turn the channel at times because it is boring, and I understand the game. Imagine what the non-pool-playing public thinks of pool when they tune in.

Is there a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, Cardiac Kid, for an aspiring pool player? Not in today's pool world. We can only hope that those who have the ability to transform this game into a legitimate sport will attract sorely needed non-pool-related sponsors, like the Hilton Hotel, and if and when this happens, we may see a new horizon. JMHO, FWIW! :)

JAM
 
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"I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool.

I believe Inside Pool just recently ran an article where they mentioned that Steve Davis made a million dollars playing pool and three times that in endorsements.

But you are right, Davis is the exception.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
"I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool.

I believe Inside Pool just recently ran an article where they mentioned that Steve Davis made a million dollars playing pool and three times that in endorsements.

But you are right, Davis is the exception.

Jake

Steve Davis is from England and plays Snooker. If a player wins a snooker tournament- 1st place is around $100,000. Thats alot of cakes...
 
What's happening in Florida NOW...

Johnny Archer wins the first leg of the two-tournament Hilton-sponsored North American Open Tour. Congratulations to the Scorpian! :)

The next $10,000-added event should be in progress now. Did the UPA players stay? Did some new players show up? Does anybody know?

JAM
 
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JAM said:
It is very telling when world-class players leave the game. I read with great interest the recent article in InsidePOOL magazine about Jimmy "Pretty Boy Floyd" Mataya, a great personality in the history of the sport. When a player is on top of their game, everybody loves a winner. When a player stumbles, grows old, or experiences a few setbacks in life, they're a loser, scum of the earth, and a punching bag for a few sick trolls on the Internet. Pool players come in many colors, but they are only human beings, capable of making bad judgments and mistakes in life, just like me.

JAM,

Are you a mind reader as well as all your other skills? After watching Jimmy's performance at the DCC, some of those were words that came to my mind. In retrospect, I couldn't "hold Jimmy's cue"! When I beat him in a 14.1 event years ago, he jokingly made all the excuses. There was no doubt he was not playing at 100%. Not even 50%. Like most people, I am too quick to judge others who have fallen. I guess in some small way it makes me feel better for one moment in time. I am sorry for that! I truely wish that it would never happen again. I'll try.
 
JustPlay said:
Steve Davis is from England and plays Snooker. If a player wins a snooker tournament- 1st place is around $100,000. Thats alot of cakes...

Hi JustPlay,

I believe Steve Davis is not only a World Champion snooker player (he was Knighted by Queen Elizabeth for his contributions) but a great nine baller as well. I must say I pulled a bit for him against Earl last year during the Mosconi Cup event in Vegas. Winning a main tour event is worth HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars. The top sixteen ranked players probably earn over a Million a year for their efforts. In all fairness, the tobacco companies can still advertise at their events. If you go to the main snooker website, your warned about cigarette advertising before you can enter! Oh well, we had Camel and found a way to screw that up! :rolleyes:
 
What a shame!

JAM said:
Johnny Archer wins the first leg of the two-tournament Hilton-sponsored North American Open Tour. Congratulations to the Scorpian! :)

The next $10,000-added event should be in progress now. Did the UPA players stay? Did some new players show up? Does anybody know?

I just found out that the second leg Hilton-sponsored NAOT, a $10,000-added event, was canceled due to lack of attendance. :(

JAM
 
NAOT Second Tourney-Pittsburgh-February 2005

Bob Romano said:
JAM ~ Does this mean that the Hilton deal is shot completely? Geez I hope not. :confused:

Fortunately, Eydie, the North American Open Tour, $300,000 in guaranteed addeds, sponsored by the Hilton Hotel, is going forth and looking forward to the second event, which will occur in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, around mid-February 2005. At the Hilton Hotel, of course! :p

BTW, I was talking to a player the other night here in my neck of the woods who said he's got his eyes on the end-of-the-year season finale of the NAOT, to occur in November of 2005! :)

There is a point system to qualify for the final event, which will have $75,000 added and bonuses! :D

I'm hopeful to see this tour thrive. It's a good thing for pool in general (IMO)! And the monies added are attractive in my camp. ;)

JAM
 
Jam,

Any idea why the players didn't want to play in the 2nd NAOT? A $10,000 added would seem to be worth their effort. How many tournaments are there during the year that have that much added?

Having to cancel the event must have cost the promoters a bundle of money.

Jake
 
tourny in fla

i think they a fine, a suspension of 1-2 tournys is approite. some one has to be in control !!!!! bad for the sport to act so.look what it did for john daley in golf, he is just getting his place back in the sport of golf. what is the answer????? STICK
 
jjinfla said:
"I challenge this thread to name some American world class players who became millionaires off the game of pool.

I believe Inside Pool just recently ran an article where they mentioned that Steve Davis made a million dollars playing pool and three times that in endorsements.

But you are right, Davis is the exception.

Jake
Many,many snooker players are millionares, or have made amillion in there carrear............Stephen hendry has won more than double that of steve davis...........Cliff Thorburn made over 200,000 British lbs. in 1980...........I am not positive , but i would venture to say that the top money maker this year in snooker would be over half a milli0on american
 
I'm not going as far to say he's a millionaire but Reyes must make a decent living at this game, he has good sponsorship with Puyat sports and San Miguel beer as well, that and being one of the greatest money players ever must translate into a six figure salary for him. Still not even close to a snooker player but at least were headed in the right direction with Matchroom Sport who pays players what they desverve, not to mention that they cover players travel expenses to most of their events except WPC.

I hope the NAOT can get back on track because it sounds promising and I'm still bewildered at how only 43 players can show up to a $20,000 added event.
 
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