What's going on with tournament promotions?

[JCIN]

Justin,

As the true "insider" we know you are, and your intellectual qualities at getting your point across, I read your posts on this subject with great interest.

I would just like to add, that as you know, with the lofty asperations of the GWC, we are certainly NOT talking about a $5000 added tournament here, or even an established event like Turning Stone, with big added $$$.

We're talking about an event that rivals the DCC, or the big Vegas events, in scope and potential, and the promoter's of the event, I'm sure, are trying to get it off the ground without a major financial deficit in year one.

I totally agree with your take on mass advertising, and the hiring of PR firms to get the word out.
It is prohibitively expensive, and a very poor $$$ return....both per player and attending spectator.

Just to take your "grass root's" concept a little further...I offer the following suggestions, to get the word out "better" than what I've seen from the GWC promoter's thus far.

(1) Design, and print a large quantity of attractive posters, WELL in advance (too late this year) of the event. This could cost up to (guesstimate) $5-8K.

(2) Pick someone (from the GWC group) to act as a liason to all the pool forums, and have them stay pro-active within those forums. Cost...zero $$. A labor of love, and well worth it.

(3) Get said liason, to solicit help from the hundreds of quality posters, who would be glad to disemminate flyers and posters, to every "action" bar and pool room in the country. Cost of mailings (guesstimate again) several K.

(4) I would think that doing something like the above, would facilitate in getting the word out to almost everybody, even remotely interested in attending the event, in a very cost effective manner. (under 10K, = 1 % of a mil. !!!)

The other major tournaments don't need to do that.(although, it sure would't hurt if they did) They are allready established by their longevity and popularity in our somewhat small world.

This is their first event, and if there are going to be more of them (which we all hope there are) They need to put forth the utmost effort to make it a success.

I'm sure they are all lovers of the game, and I applaud them for making the effort they are making, especially in these uncertain times. I wish them every success.

But I am just as sure, none of the promoter's are philantrophists, who will pour their $$$$ down the drain forever, if they take a big bath in their innaugural event.

Word of mouth is a good thing, but getting information out there, in a timely fashion, so people can pre-plan, is worth a few $K investment. And yes, it is work ! JMHO.

Dick Mc Morran

Yup. I agree whole heartedly. We have talked about printing up and framing something really nice for pool rooms and having a spot for an 8X10 flyer to slipped into the larger display so whenever we do a new event all the room owner has to do is slip the small flyer into the large display.

The key is to make it nice enough that the display will get hung up and not stuck behind a door. The issue is our cost on something like this near as I can figure it about $60-$80 each delivered. Times that by just 50 rooms and you can see that it adds up quick. Of course it is an option to co-brand it with a sponsor and split the cost. There are many good ideas and ways to get the word out. Leveraging the support of people on a local level is the thing that can really have an effect, no matter what you spend.

The key is building that network.

 

[lfigueroa]

great thread. It is much tougher to get the word out than you think. Local medias don't care, it cost money to get good ads in the mags, and e-mails aren't getting it done. I would love suggestions on how to get the word out. I do tournaments all over the country and I always get someone showing up in the middle of an event saying they didn't know. Yet there are 200 people that did get the info. How do we get to everyone that wants the info. HELP!!!!

You're right: the local (and regional and national) media don't care. Your emails and press releases are just one more in an ever growing pile. They go straight to File 13.

Just very briefly and for starters, you need to target the right person on the newspaper staff -- either the sports editor or an individual reporter that has covered pool tournament type of events. And then you need to remember at least two things: a. these guys are "reporters;" and b. you need to make covering your event as easy as possible.

The first one basically means piquing their interest with something interesting about your event. The second means they have a lot of assignments: feed them the info, bios, and human interest "hooks."

In your case, this is all probably pretty impractical to do because the whole PR thing is very time consuming and labor intensive. So what I think you need to focus on is a good pool hall mailing list, with something a step up from just a black and white flyer, and also utilize the pool forums.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I am no marketing expert but here are some things I have done.

1. Utilize local papers, most are starved for novel interesting content.

2. Call in to radio talk shows. Most that I have heard really appreciate talking about something different.

3. You have to be willing to barter services. You help a group promote their event if they do the same. This could come in any form.

4. Create a buzz. Generate some sort of story line and really blow it out of proportion. Mattress mack here in Houston is a master of that.

5. In the age of streaming have a weekly show. Tell people who you are and who the players are and they will be more receptive. You also have to be interactive with an audience to build it. Listen to their requests and feedback.

6. High profile venues. If you have a place that is well known that helps generate conversation.

7.Give something away. Doesn't matter what it is people love freebies. Make sure the freebie is visible on your announcements.

8. Approach local leaders. They love a free photo opportunity. Especially politicians who are on the bubble.

9. Call as many people as you can possibly think of or email them until you get a response and try to network through them. You might get shot down 25 times before you hit gold and its just as golden as the guy who gave you his card and the cold shoulder. What I mean by this is people who can help you or trade services with you.

10. Connect your event with a charity. The media may not like your tournament but they will always stop to help out a good cause.

Just some ideas. Got more of them but alas I am tired.

A lot of great suggestions. One that I think deserves highlighting and which cannot be underestimated is "creating a buzz" about your events. A good example of this is how TAR works the Action Room forum.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Bottom line is the same as everything else in the pool world. No one has any money.

Just go take a look at what a little ad in USA Today costs for a week. It will stop your heart. Also the WPBA and IPT are just a couple that I know have hired professional PR firms at one time or another and we all see how big an impact that made.

I used to send stuff to John Werthiem the Sports Illustrated writer who wrote the book about Delicious. We had spoken a couple times, he asked ME (LOL) how to promote his book to pool players. Now that the book is over I have never heard from him again.

You can call promoters amateur or dilettante or whatever but the bottom line is time and money. I have seen local networks at some events but so what? What is the reward on investment for constantly trying to convince local stations to cover a tournament ? You may spend eight hours talking to three different entities only to get nothing or best case get a sixty second blurb about "A gathering of pool hustlers".

Jeanette used to do a charity event in Indianapolis that was big. She had Colts and Pacers players there, local DJ's and celebrities as players and they had a couple of people working on it full time for months to make it happen. It was always a success but I do not know anyone that can afford a staff to do that for anything in a regular old tournament pool.

Most guys spend the time and money where the largest members of a demographic are qualified consumers of their product. For a promoter that is right here and in pool rooms not shooting money up in the air on hoping to convince Joe Blow and Susie Homemaker to suddenly take an interest in pool.

The APA claims 250,000 members plus. If we can't talk to a quarter million people who pay money to a league to play the game and convince them to get behind tournaments of THEIR sport just how are we supposed to convince someone who could care less ?

I was into digital signage years back and did a lot of research into the number of ads people see, what works as far as recognition and how advertisers pay for ads. Some basic numbers I came across is that you have on average 6 seconds to catch someones attention and to actually get someone to remember time/date/place is brutal.

Promoters do what every small business person has since time began. They make the best possible use of limited funds and resources. I think people really have no idea how hard it is to get the word out. There is so much noise and confusion it is brutal to break through. The average money spent on U.S. Senate campaign is $7,000,000 all saturated in one state over a relatively short time span with many volunteers working for free. It is nothing more than an ad campaign to get people off their ass and go do something for an hour. And we all know what turn out most states get with hundreds of millions of dollars spent between all the elections.

It just ain't that easy. There is always more that can be done, but at some point economics takes over. Some things that work cheap are email news letters (working on that one), online viral marketing, brand recognition in the chosen demographic, and word of mouth. There is a reason PR and ad firms charge what they charge. It is hard and expensive.

I think you're absolutely right. My only other comment would be that, at least in the first year, the "so what" about getting the networks to your event is a long term proposition. What you're really doing is building connections, good will, and better (more) coverage in the following years. But given your central point about time and expense, what pool promoter can do that?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Justin,

As the true "insider" we know you are, and your intellectual qualities at getting your point across, I read your posts on this subject with great interest.

I would just like to add, that as you know, with the lofty asperations of the GWC, we are certainly NOT talking about a $5000 added tournament here, or even an established event like Turning Stone, with big added $$$.

We're talking about an event that rivals the DCC, or the big Vegas events, in scope and potential, and the promoter's of the event, I'm sure, are trying to get it off the ground without a major financial deficit in year one.

I totally agree with your take on mass advertising, and the hiring of PR firms to get the word out.
It is prohibitively expensive, and a very poor $$$ return....both per player and attending spectator.

Just to take your "grass root's" concept a little further...I offer the following suggestions, to get the word out "better" than what I've seen from the GWC promoter's thus far.

(1) Design, and print a large quantity of attractive posters, WELL in advance (too late this year) of the event. This could cost up to (guesstimate) $5-8K.

(2) Pick someone (from the GWC group) to act as a liason to all the pool forums, and have them stay pro-active within those forums. Cost...zero $$. A labor of love, and well worth it.

(3) Get said liason, to solicit help from the hundreds of quality posters, who would be glad to disemminate flyers and posters, to every "action" bar and pool room in the country. Cost of mailings (guesstimate again) several K.

(4) I would think that doing something like the above, would facilitate in getting the word out to almost everybody, even remotely interested in attending the event, in a very cost effective manner. (under 10K, = 1 % of a mil. !!!)

The other major tournaments don't need to do that.(although, it sure would't hurt if they did) They are allready established by their longevity and popularity in our somewhat small world.

This is their first event, and if there are going to be more of them (which we all hope there are) They need to put forth the utmost effort to make it a success.

I'm sure they are all lovers of the game, and I applaud them for making the effort they are making, especially in these uncertain times. I wish them every success.

But I am just as sure, none of the promoter's are philantrophists, who will pour their $$$$ down the drain forever, if they take a big bath in their innaugural event.

Word of mouth is a good thing, but getting information out there, in a timely fashion, so people can pre-plan, is worth a few $K investment. And yes, it is work ! JMHO.

Dick Mc Morran

Really good suggestions, Dick. The one I would highlight is #2

"Pick someone (from the GWC group) to act as a liason to all the pool forums, and have them stay pro-active within those forums. Cost...zero $$. A labor of love, and well worth it."

It floors me that the Galveston guys haven't picked up on this. It is absolutely necessary, easy, and effective. You don't want to over do it, as some promoters have, and spam the group to death. But you do want to be readily available and responsive with factual answers. Besides giving players the info they need, it sustains a discussion in a positive manner and gets players revved about going -- it's the "buzz" discussed elsewhere.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Yup. I agree whole heartedly. We have talked about printing up and framing something really nice for pool rooms and having a spot for an 8X10 flyer to slipped into the larger display so whenever we do a new event all the room owner has to do is slip the small flyer into the large display.

The key is to make it nice enough that the display will get hung up and not stuck behind a door. The issue is our cost on something like this near as I can figure it about $60-$80 each delivered. Times that by just 50 rooms and you can see that it adds up quick. Of course it is an option to co-brand it with a sponsor and split the cost. There are many good ideas and ways to get the word out. Leveraging the support of people on a local level is the thing that can really have an effect, no matter what you spend.

The key is building that network.

This might work with a mailing list of reliable AZ types that could make sure your posters get put up in certain rooms and/or cities.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SJDinPHX]

Yup. I agree whole heartedly. We have talked about printing up and framing something really nice for pool rooms and having a spot for an 8X10 flyer to slipped into the larger display so whenever we do a new event all the room owner has to do is slip the small flyer into the large display.

The key is to make it nice enough that the display will get hung up and not stuck behind a door. The issue is our cost on something like this near as I can figure it about $60-$80 each delivered. Times that by just 50 rooms and you can see that it adds up quick. Of course it is an option to co-brand it with a sponsor and split the cost. There are many good ideas and ways to get the word out. Leveraging the support of people on a local level is the thing that can really have an effect, no matter what you spend.

The key is building that network.

Wow Justin, you've done the research, I had no idea the cost would be that high. (per unit)
And I was talking 16"x22" posters (collector's items maybe, which could be a whole other market) not just 8 X 11 flyers.

I was talking about shipping 8-12 of them, to maybe 30-40 hot spots around the country, and only to guys you know will help to promote the event, in the right action spots. (sadly, there aren't that many anymore)

Your TAR presentations are very much in demand, and you get a lot of "pre-event" exposure anyway, due to YOUR involvement, and respect, in these forums, plus I'm sure your advertising outlay is significant.

I was talking about an event like the GWC. I think their unit cost, per flyer, or poster could be considerably less. ICBW.

It would be similar to having business cards printed up...$20 for 500...$25 for 2-3000.

Anyway, hope you guy's are not shut out of Galveston. I know they have a high powered outfit ready to stream to Asian countries, and capture some DVD's. Not that great for us, but its their baby.

I'm quite sure I can greatly improve on your cost per unit, placed where they would be most beneficial.

You are right about building a network though..that is a key element.

 

[JCIN]

Wow Justin, you've done the research, I had no idea the cost would be that high. (per unit)
And I was talking 16"x22" posters (collector's items maybe, which could be a whole other market) not just 8 X 11 flyers.

I was talking about shipping 8-12 of them, to maybe 30-40 hot spots around the country, and only to guys you know will help to promote the event, in the right action spots. (sadly, there aren't that many anymore)

Your TAR presentations are very much in demand, and you get a lot of "pre-event" exposure anyway, due to YOUR involvement, and respect, in these forums, plus I'm sure your advertising outlay is significant.

I was talking about an event like the GWC. I think their unit cost, per flyer, or poster could be considerably less. ICBW.

It would be similar to having business cards printed up...$20 for 500...$25 for 2-3000.

Anyway, hope you guy's are not shut out of Galveston. I know they have a high powered outfit ready to stream to Asian countries, and capture some DVD's. Not that great for us, but its their baby.

I'm quite sure I can greatly improve on your cost per unit, placed where they would be most beneficial.

You are right about building a network though..that is a key element.

My unit cost was based on something very nice. The main display being a 24x36 framed print with a lexan window to put the upcoming event flyer in. Just an idea that we will probably do as a thank you to the rooms that have hosted our events.

 

[corvette1340]

Currently, the best and most cost efficient means of marketing and promoting an event where the most people that will most likely care or go to an event is this forum. And I don't even think it's close.

 

[ironman]

I am not convinced announcements ever make it to the media. With tv and papers covering everything from the paper/rock/scissors championship to the Scottish rock throwing festival I am not sure why pool would be left out if promoters were giving them the info.

The newspapers in our area flatly refuse to cover anything having anything to do with pool claiming they do not want to cover the element. I asked what that element was and they said I was a Smart ass and part of the element. I thanked them for their time and being sooopen minded about it and congratulated them on the two stories the night beore on plice corruption and the drive by shootings. He hung up on me!

Again though, the only news in the papers in San Antonio is who is stealing in City Hall, drive by's, and corrupt cops. Well, that is not true, there was one story of a kid selling crack at the local school and was caught with $11,000 in his pocket. I think he was 12 years old.

Element?? I need the definition of this!!

 

[JCIN]

The newspapers in our area flatly refuse to cover anything having anything to do with pool claiming they do not want to cover the element. I asked what that element was and they said I was a Smart ass and part of the element. I thanked them for their time and being sooopen minded about it and congratulated them on the two stories the night beore on plice corruption and the drive by shootings. He hung up on me!

Again though, the only news in the papers in San Antonio is who is stealing in City Hall, drive by's, and corrupt cops. Well, that is not true, there was one story of a kid selling crack at the local school and was caught with $11,000 in his pocket. I think he was 12 years old.

Element?? I need the definition of this!!

Sounds like pool players are not big enough crooks in your neighborhood.

 

[lodini]

I would just like to address the money issue... that's what sponsorship is for. Even a professional sports team or league wouldn't have the funds to advertise if it weren't for sponsorship dollars. Sponsorship sales in pool is the key to successful events.

Not saying that it's easy to do... but in my opinion, "pool" needs sponsorship sales experts much more than they need marketing/public relations experts.

 

[JCIN]

I would just like to address the money issue... that's what sponsorship is for. Even a professional sports team or league wouldn't have the funds to advertise if it weren't for sponsorship dollars. Sponsorship sales in pool is the key to successful events.

Not saying that it's easy to do... but in my opinion, "pool" needs sponsorship sales experts much more than they need marketing/public relations experts.

Remember what I said earlier....there is no money in pool. Most of the real hard cash industry sponsors are gone. Even at the highest levels. The deal Shane just got is an anomaly.

It has become a barter economy for the most part.

I know all about going out and getting outside sponsors, have tried it a little but when big PR firms can't pull outside money for the WPBA or IPT I have a pretty good idea where to direct our energy.

Guerrilla style marketing.

<----vanilla gorilla

 

[JamisonNeu]

Do any of the other large tournaments get coverage in their local papers/ radio/ TV?

DCC, US Open, Mosconi Cup, etc?

Very rarely in the USA.

I was at a Carom Billiard tourney one time in NY,NY. I was talking with Charlie Ursitti, and I told him "Wow, the NY times is covering this." He smiled real big, and said "Wait until you see the story." Years of trying to promote pool that made him know what would happen.

Mr. 100 was there, his son and his sons son were all playing in the same pro event. All pro level billiard players. Mr. 100 is even a horseman (like a knight) in his country. He has won over 100 major titles in his life, a level I doubt anyone will get to again.

The story in the Times was about the worlds tallest billiard player. Nice guy about 8 ft tall... Crazy to me cause here I am getting to see the real king of cue sports. Mr. 100, and they are interested in the tall guy.

The real deal with pool is like what Fats said.

If you started a pool player on fire, and put him in Times Square, they still wouldn't watch him play.

 

[lodini]

Remember what I said earlier....there is no money in pool. Most of the real hard cash industry sponsors are gone. Even at the highest levels. The deal Shane just got is an anomaly.

It has become a barter economy for the most part.

I know all about going out and getting outside sponsors, have tried it a little but when big PR firms can't pull outside money for the WPBA or IPT I have a pretty good idea where to direct our energy.

Guerrilla style marketing.

<----vanilla gorilla

Nothing wrong with barter at all! It eliminates the need for cash to exchange hands, but it works the same way... and since no one has cash, then it works for everyone. It is done all the time in pro sports. In fact, it's a great way to get to people who love pool because inside industry partners have mailing list, etc.

 

[HouseMan]

Again though, the only news in the papers in San Antonio is who is stealing in City Hall, drive by's, and corrupt cops. Well, that is not true, there was one story of a kid selling crack at the local school and was caught with $11,000 in his pocket. I think he was 12 years old.

Boy, they really have some nerve to do that. Shame on you newspapers, for shame!

 

[2l82bgr8]

one problem is pool has only gotten charity not sponsors, in order to get a sponsor, they have to see a return. There is very little return in pool. Not enough spectators or any other type of return. The sponsors from the past relized they were giving money but no return. Sorry but that is charity.

 

[jimmy-leggs]

I've said this before........You have to start from "what you are promoting".The masses do NOT play recreational 9 ball or 10 ball,OR understand the game,so why would the masses care to watch it.

And ween out trick shot billiards........it cheapens the sport.

 

[Bigtruck]

I agree absolutely more can be done. The thing is when you are a one or two man operation as most promotions are at the core, there is just so much you can do. I see what the BCAPL does with a staff of 5 or 6. It is amazing. And yet people still have no clue about the NCS or the Shootout at the Sands events. It is like trying to shovel snow with a spoon.

The key is reaching the people who are actually going to come to an event. Local news coverage is extremely low return on investment for that. IMO the best way is to form a solid information distribution network at the grass roots level through local league operators and pool rooms.

Put it right in front of the players. Easy to say, no one has done it yet.

Actually the Galveston Promoter, Bobby Rone did send out posters to countless league operators and pool rooms.

 

[Scott Lee]

Amen Lou...When I do an exhibition at a college or university, I try to get the school to contact the local newspapers and tv stations, ahead of time. If a news crew gets sent out, I make sure to get the reporter "involved", by setting up a trick shot and having them make it, on camera, or being photographed. That almosts always ensures that the coverage will be printed or aired locally. For me, it's about getting "ink" (read: good publicity) for the school, not about getting my face in the newspaper or on tv...been there, done that, hundreds of times!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Speaking more generally, promoting a sporting event (or any event), and getting so-called "media coverage" involves a lot of work that most promoters are either ignorant about, or unable/unwilling to do. IOW, you can't just shoot off a flyer, or schedule, or poster, or even a press release, because I guarantee you *that* ends up in the trash.

Pool can get coverage. But someone has to do the PR roadwork

Lou Figueroa