How do you draw the third line and the curve around the bottom two corner balls?
What's the best rack for 14.1?
- Thread starter CharlieHustle
- Start date
How do you draw the third line and the curve around the bottom two corner balls?
I agree that the opponent has to use the same rack. However, my concern here and why I started the thread was for the occasions when you are all alone, by yourself and trying to give yourself every advantage in trying to break your previous high run.
I like the idea of the True Rack because it has no back end, which normally takes up most of the space.
i'm not sure if what you're wanting to do is what i think you're aiming for but if you want to draw the tightest outline of a rack, draw the lines on your table from the inside of the rack.
bentwood triangle
The original Brunswick-patented 1880 "pool ball frame" was bentwood and had no corners. I am having a talented woodworker make a few of them out of beautiful exotic wood. I am having them made for straight pool because of not only the minimum space taken but also they are made from many layers of thin wood veneer so they are MUCH lighter than acrylic, plastic, celluloid, or brass, all of which I have owned. It makes the same outline, with rounded corners, that you see in the famous Willie Mosconi Brunswick publicity photo where there is a rack of Clay Ivorylene Dart pool balls on the table in front of him, and this shape triangle had been used to mark the outline on the table for alignment. If you have seen the solid brass triangles for sale then you know the shape and thickness already.
I am selling a few of them to make up my high cost. So pm me your email address if you are interested and I will send you a photo. Check my 100% positive feedback to see that I am legit.
The original Brunswick-patented 1880 "pool ball frame" was bentwood and had no corners. I am having a talented woodworker make a few of them out of beautiful exotic wood. I am having them made for straight pool because of not only the minimum space taken but also they are made from many layers of thin wood veneer so they are MUCH lighter than acrylic, plastic, celluloid, or brass, all of which I have owned. It makes the same outline, with rounded corners, that you see in the famous Willie Mosconi Brunswick publicity photo where there is a rack of Clay Ivorylene Dart pool balls on the table in front of him, and this shape triangle had been used to mark the outline on the table for alignment. If you have seen the solid brass triangles for sale then you know the shape and thickness already.
I am selling a few of them to make up my high cost. So pm me your email address if you are interested and I will send you a photo. Check my 100% positive feedback to see that I am legit.
Drawing the outline..
This is a good tip, but the purpose of drawing the outline is to set the rack down in the same place AND to show where the outside of the rack falls so that the referee or player will know if a break ball is "in the rack" before it is even attempted to do so. With the racks I am having made, drawing the outside also has the advantage of actually being able to see the outline on the table when the rack is down on the table ~ I assume that most people who use the outline to align the rack would rather be able to see the whole outline than to look between balls in the shadows.
This is a good tip, but the purpose of drawing the outline is to set the rack down in the same place AND to show where the outside of the rack falls so that the referee or player will know if a break ball is "in the rack" before it is even attempted to do so. With the racks I am having made, drawing the outside also has the advantage of actually being able to see the outline on the table when the rack is down on the table ~ I assume that most people who use the outline to align the rack would rather be able to see the whole outline than to look between balls in the shadows.
I didn't read all the posts, but couldn't you just use the outline that the inside of the rack creates?
How often is it a factor that the break ball is on the bubble, anyway?
How often is it a factor that the break ball is on the bubble, anyway?
I'm really quite confused by the reasoning of wanting a small outline. The specific reason to outline the rack is so that you can determine if the 15th ball will interfere with racking the balls.
If for example you used the footprint of the inside of the rack, then should a ball lie just outside the rack's line, you will have to move the ball in order to rack the next rack, so, it wouldn't be outside the rack area at all. :scratchhead:
The idea of the rack outline being bigger than the footprint of the balls is integral to the concept of determining if the 15th ball lies ( as it is) in a good position for a break ball. I don't get it, sorry.
If for example you used the footprint of the inside of the rack, then should a ball lie just outside the rack's line, you will have to move the ball in order to rack the next rack, so, it wouldn't be outside the rack area at all. :scratchhead:
The idea of the rack outline being bigger than the footprint of the balls is integral to the concept of determining if the 15th ball lies ( as it is) in a good position for a break ball. I don't get it, sorry.
yep
Yes, two members have now restated my point that marking the inside of the rack doesn't do much for you, but everyone has probably made a post without totally thinking it through. I would think that having a triangle with corners would make the most difference on side pocket break shots where the break ball would be at the apex, but I am not at a table where I could think this through....
Yes, two members have now restated my point that marking the inside of the rack doesn't do much for you, but everyone has probably made a post without totally thinking it through. I would think that having a triangle with corners would make the most difference on side pocket break shots where the break ball would be at the apex, but I am not at a table where I could think this through....
Yes
Very well stated.
Please forgive me if I repeat anything that has been said already.
The rack line must be drawn on the (Outside) of the rack. The only way to make a smaller rack line would be to draw a line along the set of balls, if you would use the method of racking like they do in Europe. They do not use racks, I believe they indent their cloth.
I prefer the "Old School" way with a good solid wood rack. One has to decide on what type of rack they would want for their home table and that would be the rack used all the time. It is the way that it always has been and it is the best way in my opinion.
If a person wanted some type of rack with springs etc. They are very large.
I would still draw a outline with a normal rack and use the larger rack all the time for racking except when the break ball is too near the line and the larger rack can not fit. But, the outline should be there for that No Fly Zone.
Very well stated.
Please forgive me if I repeat anything that has been said already.
The rack line must be drawn on the (Outside) of the rack. The only way to make a smaller rack line would be to draw a line along the set of balls, if you would use the method of racking like they do in Europe. They do not use racks, I believe they indent their cloth.
I prefer the "Old School" way with a good solid wood rack. One has to decide on what type of rack they would want for their home table and that would be the rack used all the time. It is the way that it always has been and it is the best way in my opinion.
If a person wanted some type of rack with springs etc. They are very large.
I would still draw a outline with a normal rack and use the larger rack all the time for racking except when the break ball is too near the line and the larger rack can not fit. But, the outline should be there for that No Fly Zone.
The "European way", is the American way. It was first used here in professional tournaments. It gives the smallest footprint, and is the least intrusive way to get a consistently frozen rack. It is called the Rack-M-Rite Racking Template. I invented it and I have never even been to Europe, lol, though I did sell a bunch to Ralph Souquet at the last Billiard Channel Tour event, in I think it was the year 2000.
The Rack-M-Rite tapping method is probably the most used racking method in professional 14.1 tournaments over the last decade worldwide. Marop has almost got the correct technique down, though he is still a little slow.:grin-square:
Last edited:
Lol....
One Is Never Too Old To Learn Something.......
Thank you for the info. I have seen so many videos from Europe and they all seem to use it. Yes, I watched many of Marop videos and I know he uses it. I have never used it or have played anyone who was using it. I would like to give it a try one day.
Congrats on the invention. It sounds like a wonderful product.
One Is Never Too Old To Learn Something.......
Thank you for the info. I have seen so many videos from Europe and they all seem to use it. Yes, I watched many of Marop videos and I know he uses it. I have never used it or have played anyone who was using it. I would like to give it a try one day.
Congrats on the invention. It sounds like a wonderful product.
With all due respect, in a wild stretch of my imagination I can begin to attempt to understand somewhat, the reasoning behind tapping a table for a nine ball game, if for no other reason than to stop these guys from laboring over the perfect placement of 9 balls and then smashing them all to hell anyway ....
But, I just can't see myself dinging my table fifteen times and then having to play tight precise position in the patch of balls area, and watching the cue ball rock into those dings. I know, I know, you can't tell. But how could you not tell if the balls fall into place in those dings?
Is it just me or are others a bit concerned about dinging their tables?
I also don't understand the concept of attempting to draw a tight line around the rack if it means that a ball lying near it is far enough away to rack the balls but is too close to the racked balls to shoot anyway. Why even draw lines at that point if they are useless in being used as a guide?
If you tell me you can just gauge another 1/4 or 1/2 inch off the drawn lines, then I say, why not just draw the line there in the first place and you don't have to gauge anything? :shrug:
But, I just can't see myself dinging my table fifteen times and then having to play tight precise position in the patch of balls area, and watching the cue ball rock into those dings. I know, I know, you can't tell. But how could you not tell if the balls fall into place in those dings?
Is it just me or are others a bit concerned about dinging their tables?
I also don't understand the concept of attempting to draw a tight line around the rack if it means that a ball lying near it is far enough away to rack the balls but is too close to the racked balls to shoot anyway. Why even draw lines at that point if they are useless in being used as a guide?
If you tell me you can just gauge another 1/4 or 1/2 inch off the drawn lines, then I say, why not just draw the line there in the first place and you don't have to gauge anything? :shrug:
Yes
Really good point about balls will rock back into those dings. I do not like when a ball changes direction when it rolls slowly at the edge of the paper head spot. I draw my head spot, like I do the rack line.
I use a solid wood rack that is wide enough to still pocket the break ball even if it is right next to the outline.
I hope all this helps but what this comes down to is: "To each their own".
Whatever makes a player happy is best for that player specially when it comes to their own table. As for me, I think a rack outline is very important when playing 14.1
Really good point about balls will rock back into those dings. I do not like when a ball changes direction when it rolls slowly at the edge of the paper head spot. I draw my head spot, like I do the rack line.
I use a solid wood rack that is wide enough to still pocket the break ball even if it is right next to the outline.
I hope all this helps but what this comes down to is: "To each their own".
Whatever makes a player happy is best for that player specially when it comes to their own table. As for me, I think a rack outline is very important when playing 14.1
Certainly I agree with to each their own, and I wouldn't want my post to be interpreted as downing anyone who does anything they want to their own table.
I imagine how crazy it would make me, and how it would get in my head, if in a tournament on a tapped table, my CB rolled on top of an OB because it took that extra turn into a ding, so I'd hate to see that become the norm for racking.
I guess there is just a part of me, being the old fashioned type, not wanting 14.1 to morph into some other kind of game and I think that while it's absolutely great to see the younger players becoming interested in the game, I really hope it maintains its classic style.
What with the rule changes, talk of ball in hand after fouls, outlining balls for no real purpose relative to the playability of the 15th ball, holding 14.1 tournaments and not outlining the tables at all, tapping dings in the table, I guess I hate to see the game change for the sake of being fashionable.
Oh well, someone great once said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."
Tapping just puts indentations in the cloth (i.e, compresses it slightly), not the table slate. Also as I understand it, the indentations go away (i.e., the cloth decompresses) fairly fast so you have to repeat the process periodically.
I know that a great many people are concerned that the indentations would alter ball movement. However, I have never seen anyone who worried about it claim that they had actually played on a tapped table and seen that happen. That it's very commonly used in professional level 14.1 tournaments would seem to indicate that the top players aren't worried about it.
Why? please explain what you do when the 15th ball lies 1/16th of an inch outside your rack line?
You have drawn your line inside the rack and now you can't place that very same rack on the table because the 15th ball..... although clearly outside the line, remains in the way of the rack as you attempt to re-rack the balls. Is it your method to pick that ball up with your hand, re-rack the balls, and then try to put it back as close to where it was as you could?
The line is drawn OUTSIDE the rack. Come on guys....
Man OH Man
How many times to we have to explain why you can't draw a line on the inside.
How many times to we have to explain why you can't draw a line on the inside.
stick on head spot problem...
I don't like the stick on spots either and that's why I like the outline of the cornerless type rack... and why I am having the bentwood triangles made. I have decided to make a few oak ones too and possibly cherry which would both be far cheaper than the circassian walnut that will be used for my personal one. Is anyone interested in some of these? The woodworker is not done yet because the first few were hard to make and he had to work out the kinks so they would hold shape. But they are going to be thin and light, easy to pull away after racking.
I don't like the stick on spots either and that's why I like the outline of the cornerless type rack... and why I am having the bentwood triangles made. I have decided to make a few oak ones too and possibly cherry which would both be far cheaper than the circassian walnut that will be used for my personal one. Is anyone interested in some of these? The woodworker is not done yet because the first few were hard to make and he had to work out the kinks so they would hold shape. But they are going to be thin and light, easy to pull away after racking.
Bentwood racks I am having made....
The first bentwood triangles, made like the original thin 1880 Brunswick design, are so hard to make that the labor for my woodworker is cost-prohibitive for him to make these. Since my original plan was to try to make them above cost and donate the proceeds to a needy familiy, I had the woodworker show me how to make them. So now I am donating my time as well as materials, tools, and shipping. I have about $350 in the project so far and the woodworker comped the time he put in. It took me a week to make the first one which I will finish tonight and get photos on here. These are thin and light. What interest do any of you have? Original bentwood triangles are hard to find and are usually warped or torn up.
The first bentwood triangles, made like the original thin 1880 Brunswick design, are so hard to make that the labor for my woodworker is cost-prohibitive for him to make these. Since my original plan was to try to make them above cost and donate the proceeds to a needy familiy, I had the woodworker show me how to make them. So now I am donating my time as well as materials, tools, and shipping. I have about $350 in the project so far and the woodworker comped the time he put in. It took me a week to make the first one which I will finish tonight and get photos on here. These are thin and light. What interest do any of you have? Original bentwood triangles are hard to find and are usually warped or torn up.