What's THE Most Effective Pocket Billiard Grip for Power and Precision?

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you hold a hammer in your palms then this is NOT FOR YOU. I'm talking about a grip where you hold the hammer/cue in your fingers so that you can feel the cue/hammer as much as possible. The wrists are the strongest when working up and down like using a hammer, axe and the power is best generated when uncocking down, not coiling up.

There are MANY ways to play this game and personal preference, so if throw a ball without your fingers/wrist, throw a dart with no fingers/wrist or use a hammer with no fingers/wrist, then you have a different way of doing things than I do, and that's fine.

I'm ONLY talking to players that have the "Touch" in their fingers and experience life/games/sports/ through that type of "connection" - whether throwing a baseball, shooting a basketball, or hammering a nail...we can build a bridge to pocket billiards.


I use a system where I pre cock my wrist/fingers and create a "groove" where my wrists/fingers must move UP AND DOWN, with no SIDE TO SIDE motion at all. It's the "Side to Side" movement that throws your cue off line and causes you to miss-hit the cue ball. I feel like my hand and wrist create a "groove," "track," or "slot," for the stroke.

When you HINGE your wrist/fingers the cue MUST go down that "groove" and CAN NOT miss hit the cue ball to the Left OR the Right!!! This put you in a position where you MUST hit the cue ball straight. This is how champion players hit the ball so straight, we simply CAN'T do it wrong.

I'm not saying all champions do it like I do it, but they do it in their own way. We MUST create a groove/slot/hinge (whatever you want to call it) so that the cue contacts the cue ball on a straight line EVERY TIME!

If you cock your wrist/fingers up slightly and then pounded the nail you would have some "wrist/finger flick" to add to the acceleration when you hit the nail.

If you cock your wrist/fingers more you will have more "wrist flick" and you could continue this until you cocked the hammer completely up and then you would have the maximum "wrist/finger flick" when you hit the nail.

I "pre cock" my wrist/fingers more than many other players, therefore I have energy produced from my wrist/fingers at the moment of contact. Even with this happening it is so slight that you can't see me doing it.

This is the issue with trying to learn the subtle secrets that the pros are doing, you can't see it being done. I'm trying to give you a way to FEEL what it's like by using the hammer. This is a small powerful motion that you can only see on the break for the most part.


Watch the top professionals before they get down to shoot and you see them stroking their cue in the air. They are establishing their wrist/finger motion for the stroke they are about to shoot. We aren't stroking the cue to make sure it slides between our fingers smoothly, even though that is preferable, we're PREPARING our hand for the shot coming up so we can shoot it "as if" it's already been made.

The Key to Pool (and Golf) is in the Hands/Fingers/Wrists, so make sure you learn to Prepare Them For Success. 'The Game is the Teacher'

HaneyRightHandRelease.jpg
hank_haney_woods.jpg
 

That's a good one too.

There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.

The way I play is definitely with the wrists cocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.

Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.

I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.

For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.

The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times.
 
.they're completely different.

Actually it's the same one.

I think you may need to look at them side by side....they're completely different. ;)

If you hold a hammer in your palms then this is NOT FOR YOU. I'm talking about a grip where you hold the hammer/cue in your fingers so that you can feel the cue/hammer as much as possible. The wrists are the strongest when working up and down like using a hammer, axe and the power is best generated when uncocking down, not coiling up.

There are MANY ways to play this game and personal preference, so if throw a ball without your fingers/wrist, throw a dart with no fingers/wrist or use a hammer with no fingers/wrist, then you have a different way of doing things than I do, and that's fine.

I'm ONLY talking to players that have the "Touch" in their fingers and experience life/games/sports/ through that type of "connection" - whether throwing a baseball, shooting a basketball, or hammering a nail...we can build a bridge to pocket billiards.


I use a system where I pre cock my wrist/fingers and create a "groove" where my wrists/fingers must move UP AND DOWN, with no SIDE TO SIDE motion at all. It's the "Side to Side" movement that throws your cue off line and causes you to miss-hit the cue ball. I feel like my hand and wrist create a "groove," "track," or "slot," for the stroke.

When you HINGE your wrist/fingers the cue MUST go down that "groove" and CAN NOT miss hit the cue ball to the Left OR the Right!!! This put you in a position where you MUST hit the cue ball straight. This is how champion players hit the ball so straight, we simply CAN'T do it wrong.

I'm not saying all champions do it like I do it, but they do it in their own way. We MUST create a groove/slot/hinge (whatever you want to call it) so that the cue contacts the cue ball on a straight line EVERY TIME!

If you cock your wrist/fingers up slightly and then pounded the nail you would have some "wrist/finger flick" to add to the acceleration when you hit the nail.

If you cock your wrist/fingers more you will have more "wrist flick" and you could continue this until you cocked the hammer completely up and then you would have the maximum "wrist/finger flick" when you hit the nail.

I "pre cock" my wrist/fingers more than many other players, therefore I have energy produced from my wrist/fingers at the moment of contact. Even with this happening it is so slight that you can't see me doing it.

This is the issue with trying to learn the subtle secrets that the pros are doing, you can't see it being done. I'm trying to give you a way to FEEL what it's like by using the hammer. This is a small powerful motion that you can only see on the break for the most part.


Watch the top professionals before they get down to shoot and you see them stroking their cue in the air. They are establishing their wrist/finger motion for the stroke they are about to shoot. We aren't stroking the cue to make sure it slides between our fingers smoothly, even though that is preferable, we're PREPARING our hand for the shot coming up so we can shoot it "as if" it's already been made.

The Key to Pool (and Golf) is in the Hands/Fingers/Wrists, so make sure you learn to Prepare Them For Success. 'The Game is the Teacher'
There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.

The way I play is definitely with the wrists cocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.

Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.

I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.

For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.

The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times.
 
I think you may need to look at them side by side....they're completely different. ;)

How do you pre-cock your wrist? Is the "V" of your grip moving up and forward or are you turning your hand over slightly on top of the cue?

Best,
Mike
 
How do you pre-cock your wrist? Is the "V" of your grip moving up and forward or are you turning your hand over slightly on top of the cue?

Best,
Mike

I dont get this part either. Would probably be easier to see in pictures... like a before delivery, after delivery shot. It's not an aiming system, so I'm curious.
 
"coiled energy" in it and that will allow you to draw the cue ball 15 foot

How do you pre-cock your wrist? Is the "V" of your grip moving up and forward or are you turning your hand over slightly on top of the cue?

Best,
Mike

Put the V of your hand on top of the cue as you probably do already. Put your hand on your right hip and cock the tip up to eye level (without moving your hand off your hip).

This would be considered the maximum wrist cock. I would do this for a severe draw shot, the key is to get down on the cue ball and RETAIN that exact wrist cock. The technique is to draw your shoulder up AS you get into position.

You will feel more tension in your shoulder than you normally do......and this is good, it's got "coiled energy" in it and that will allow you to draw the cue ball 15 foot if you need to. ;)
 
I have heard other players compare my grip to the "V Grip",

I dont get this part either. Would probably be easier to see in pictures... like a before delivery, after delivery shot. It's not an aiming system, so I'm curious.

In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations, and a few variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly.

I have heard other players compare my grip to the "V Grip", I know Mr. Brett, but don't know what he teaches. If there are similarities in my grip and the movement I suggest with the wrist/fingers I wouldn't be surprised, and like all my techniques they are what I personally use and have found to be the most effective.

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword, however I resisted going into great detail.

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist on all shots, and just less on finesse or slow rolled shots. However, my main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impssible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that extends the tip through the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that way.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I DO NOT spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly overcuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time.

I'm not claiming to be "better" than the players {on this Forum} that don't understand my techniques, I'm simply playing a different Game than they are. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
You will feel more tension in your shoulder than you normally do......and this is good, it's got "coiled energy" in it and that will allow you to draw the cue ball 15 foot if you need to. ;)

Just as an opposing view, we don't believe any tension in the shoulder is necessary...and a good pendulum stroke will draw the CB 15 feet. Like the elbow drop, the wrist cock is simply a choice, that complicates the timing and movement of the cuestick...which is one reason it's not for everyone. In the end KISS still rules.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
I believe tension in the body is essential to playing at a world class level.

Just as an opposing view, we don't believe any tension in the shoulder is necessary...and a good pendulum stroke will draw the CB 15 feet. Like the elbow drop, the wrist cock is simply a choice, that complicates the timing and movement of the cuestick...which is one reason it's not for everyone. In the end KISS still rules.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks for your view, I believe tension in the body is essential to playing at a world class level under pressure.

If you watch Sigel, Shane, Johnny, Buddy, Mizerak, Efren, or myself, you will see we have our shoulder's coiled up slightly.....this is so we have tension stored down the "arm line" and through the cue....then it's like one unit, and gets the cue on a "track," that won't deviate left or right.

As a side effect the cue ball must go straight, and this gives the player true confidence so their game holds up even under demanding conditions.

This is advanced, and not recommended for everyone.....just those that are ready, or stuck at a level that they can't seen to break through.
 
I understand the "tension", reference from martial arts training. People seem to get lost when it's used to describe the body getting ready for a physical movement. A "relaxed tension", or "ready tension", seem more appropriate.

A player's mental picture after reading about tightening anything could be totally different from the next guy's image. Even a scale of 1-10 is subjective and depends on the individual's past experiences.

Best,
Mike
 
you may think of it as the back of the elbow pushing up to coil the shoulder

I understand the "tension", reference from martial arts training. People seem to get lost when it's used to describe the body getting ready for a physical movement. A "relaxed tension", or "ready tension", seem more appropriate.

A player's mental picture after reading about tightening anything could be totally different from the next guy's image. Even a scale of 1-10 is subjective and depends on the individual's past experiences.

Best,
Mike

I consider it more like a "coil".....or "spring" in the shoulder, however, there's a certain way it's done, and some of us "stumble on it" at a young age, I'm really not sure how, I guess we just "get lucky". I can teach the technique, if someone wants to learn, but I will say it takes some effort and the key is creating the movement with the wrist cock.

Here's a picture of me playing at the age of 12 and you can clearly see the shoulder pulled/coiled up ( you may think of it as the back of the elbow pushing up to coil the shoulder) so that the straight line of the arm aligns to the cue....can you see the tension created?
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Thanks for bringing this up again CJ.

I have been using this technique (hammer stroke) since you first introduced it back in November of 2012. I cant imagine ever going back to my old way.

This method puts the cue in line with the radius bone of the arm. It also allows for a tremendous amount of cue stick speed to be developed. The QB is the target (nail)

Man, its cold here :(..........and more snow :eek:

John
 
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Just curious; why did this thread get moved here? This thread has more to do with fundamentals (often discussed on the Main forum), and less to do with aiming systems.

:scratchhead:
-Sean
 
IMO 90% of misses are due to poor bridge positioning, not poor stroke. And I believe the main reason people keep blaming their stroke, is because when our bridge is placed poorly, we subconsciously swoop, or shift the bridge, or both, because the shot feels wrong.

The player then recognizes the cue swoop and tension through the shot and assumes the stroke is at fault... the stroke is a symptom much more often than the cause when it comes to standard potting. When it comes to power and other extremes in execution, the stroke does play a more significant role.

I once fixed a metal bridge to the table, with CB and OB about 3 feet apart and 2 feet to the pocket on a 1/2 ball angle, with CB and OB marked and dinted into the cloth so that the set up was nearly identical each time.

Despite the awkwardness of cueing on the bridge, I made the shot 50 times in a row, playing left and right handed. When I clearly stroked poorly, the OB still went into the edge of the pocket. I didn't even look at the OB, instead making sure I was stroking ok through the center CB at about the same speed.

Give me a perfect bridge and you can tape the cue to the back of my hand, coz it will be nearly impossible to miss.
 
Yes, the port arms strokes while erect can be used to practice approximate force of stroke, wrist positions, and follow through length and aren't just to make sure the shaft is smooth through the hand--something a lot of amateurs seem to think.
 
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