What's the point of 10 ball?

Jeff Rosen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different rules, call shots, call safety. Opponent can make you shoot again on a missed "called" shot. Takes away some luck but also takes away the 2 way shot.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
When we already had 9 ball.

When 10-ball was played decades ago, the clear differences that set it apart were:

- No automatic wing ball in the corner off the break
- Generally a cluster in the center of the table, taking away the standard "through the center" pattern play.

With the latest popularity of the game, the WPA decided to make the game even more different by:

- 10-ball on the break doesn't win
- must call shots

And that's why.

Freddie
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When we already had 9 ball.

It's harder to pocket a ball on the break one ball don't seem like much but it is and it's call pocket , Iv seen call pocket call safe also ,, at the Xbo almost all big money sets are 10 ball
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
When we already had 9 ball.

Well there are several reasons why many pros and great players prefer 10 ball:

1. The break is different and more skillful in 10 ball. ->favors the stronger player
2. The racks tend to be more clustered, and there are more balls on the table ->favors the stronger player
3. More safety battles in the early stages of the rack -> usually favors the stronger player
4. Call shot has less luck ->favors the stronger player sometimes

That is not to say that I think it's a better game. It's boring to watch. Very boring indeed, while even naive observers can sometimes have fun watchin 9 ball because of the speed of play and lucky shots. There is a tendency for players to slow down a bit when playing 10 ball, while 9 ball is often played at a lightening pace, even at the top level. This makes 10 ball less entertaining to watch.

Personally I don't like either game very much for a championship game. Bring back straight pool, I say. If I want to watch some pool casually and for the entertainment value, I'll always watch 9 ball over 10 ball. If I have to play a weaker player, I'll always play 10 ball if that is an option (and he won't play 14.1).
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
The break is the biggest difference. A powerful break is more important in 10 ball. For example, while Shane is a dominant player in both games, other players have a better chance against him in 9 ball because his power break is not as much of an advantage in 9 ball.
 
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mvp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why was 8ball never really popular with pros? I think pro 8ball would go well on tv with longer races to say 20, assuming pros are gonna run 10 racks each. Plus the audience could relate to the skill because some form of8ball is played in almost every home with a table!
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
It's harder to pocket a ball on the break one ball don't seem like much but it is and it's call pocket , Iv seen call pocket call safe also ,, at the Xbo almost all big money sets are 10 ball

Call shot with the option happened when bar rules met a pool hall.
:rolleyes:
...less luck...and less skill.
 

barrymuch90

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why was 8ball never really popular with pros? I think pro 8ball would go well on tv with longer races to say 20, assuming pros are gonna run 10 racks each. Plus the audience could relate to the skill because some form of8ball is played in almost every home with a table!

I believe for the pros 8 ball is also the wisest choice in theory and basically everyone knows basic rules of 8 ball. I assume 9 ball initially was prefered over 8 ball because running out in 8 ball,depending on the format, can be to easy. At the top flight pro level it's a one inning game the majority of the time,assuming the table breaks well. Plus 9 ball has some fast paced, instant gratification advantages over 8 ball in the sense u potentially are always one golden break,combo, caram, billiard away from winning. Not to mention anyone can beat anyone playing 9 ball. Also the fact that luck can play a huge role in 9 ball could explain why people prefer gambling at 9 ball.

On another note, 9 ball is easily handicapped and can allow players of all skill levels to match up.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Before Texas Express rules became the norm, 9-ball was played as gambling game, more luck than skill.

Perhaps the question should be ask, instead of minimizing the luck factor in 9-ball, why not just more to longer races (x number ahead and 10-ball.

When 10-ball was played decades ago, the clear differences that set it apart were:

- No automatic wing ball in the corner off the break
- Generally a cluster in the center of the table, taking away the standard "through the center" pattern play.

With the latest popularity of the game, the WPA decided to make the game even more different by:

- 10-ball on the break doesn't win
- must call shots

And that's why.

Freddie
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Different rules, call shots, call safety. Opponent can make you shoot again on a missed "called" shot. Takes away some luck but also takes away the 2 way shot.

What you say is true in some events (e.g., Predator Tour), but not under WPA (world-standardized) 10-Ball rules.

Under WPA rules, the option to return a shot happens only in the cases of (1) pocketing a ball on a called safety, (2) pocketing the called ball in a wrong pocket, or (3) pocketing a non-called ball when missing the called ball. There is no option to return the shot after a normal missed shot. So WPA rules do not eliminate the most common form of two-way shot, where you play to make a ball but leave your opponent safe if you miss.

A second type of two-way shot is where you try to make either or both of two balls. E.g., the 5-ball is the lowest-numbered ball on the table and you try to make either the 5-ball or the 10-ball (which might be hanging near a pocket). Both sets of rules identified above require that you designate only one ball and one pocket, so they eliminate this type of two-way shot.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When I grew up, 9-ball was considered a "gambling" game and sometimes it was frowned upon when ring games were going on. Some pool halls had the players play 10-ball to make it look a bit more like a "legal" and friendly game.

They used the same playing rules as 9-ball, but had an additional ball on the table.
 

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When we already had 9 ball.
Simple, the mid to low level pros *****ed and complained because the top players always won, Earl, Efren, Buddy, Mike S., and now Shane. So, 10 ball was put out there because it was originally perceived as more difficult and the clowns actually believed it would level the field. To their dismay, as in all walks of life, the best who majority of the time work the hardest and have the most skill still rise to the top.
Brings one phrase to mind, "hey moron!"
 

Gorramjayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Simple, the mid to low level pros *****ed and complained because the top players always won, Earl, Efren, Buddy, Mike S., and now Shane. So, 10 ball was put out there because it was originally perceived as more difficult and the clowns actually believed it would level the field. To their dismay, as in all walks of life, the best who majority of the time work the hardest and have the most skill still rise to the top.
Brings one phrase to mind, "hey moron!"

This can't possibly be true... can it?

9-ball is so much easier for a weaker player to get lucky and knock a favorite out of a tournament unless you want to play a race to 20 or more.

10-ball drastically changes the break pattern, it's really hard to manipulate the rack and still get a good spread.. If you try to work the rack by medium-breaking to put a wing ball in, you're probably going to have a ball tied up somewhere. If you try specifically herd the 1 and and cue up table for position like some 9-ball players do, you probably won't get ball in at all and there's the rack handed to your opponent. The way 10-ball breaks, even for SVB, there's much less chance of a run-out so it's really a better test of two high-level players in a race that only goes to 8 or 10.

9-ball race to 8 tells you almost nothing about A-level players.I'm not an A level player and I still much prefer 10-ball.

Even where you play 10-ball without call-safety (which I actually like playing without call-safety so you can attempt a two way shot) you ALWAYS have to call the 10. In 9-ball you can pocket your ball and attempt a cheeky carom at the 9 hoping to get lucky so you don't have to deal with balls that are tied up, and when there's only half a rack left on the table you know you're probably not going to get punished for blowing position because you'll just play safe anyway which you were going to have to do if you couldn't solve the problem ball.
 

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This can't possibly be true... can it?

9-ball is so much easier for a weaker player to get lucky and knock a favorite out of a tournament unless you want to play a race to 20 or more.

10-ball drastically changes the break pattern, it's really hard to manipulate the rack and still get a good spread.. If you try to work the rack by medium-breaking to put a wing ball in, you're probably going to have a ball tied up somewhere. If you try specifically herd the 1 and and cue up table for position like some 9-ball players do, you probably won't get ball in at all and there's the rack handed to your opponent. The way 10-ball breaks, even for SVB, there's much less chance of a run-out so it's really a better test of two high-level players in a race that only goes to 8 or 10.

9-ball race to 8 tells you almost nothing about A-level players.I'm not an A level player and I still much prefer 10-ball.

Even where you play 10-ball without call-safety (which I actually like playing without call-safety so you can attempt a two way shot) you ALWAYS have to call the 10. In 9-ball you can pocket your ball and attempt a cheeky carom at the 9 hoping to get lucky so you don't have to deal with balls that are tied up, and when there's only half a rack left on the table you know you're probably not going to get punished for blowing position because you'll just play safe anyway which you were going to have to do if you couldn't solve the problem ball.
Agreed, my point is not which one is more difficult. The question was why 10 ball...
I'll call to point a couple more rule changes that empower the "participation trophy" mentality.
Alternating breaks.
Break from here and here, but not from there or there.
Can't wait for alternating breaks in straight pool, watch, it's coming in the pu$$ificated world we live in!
Just think about the cancellation of the Hall of Fame game the other night. That clown on ESPN calling for someone to be fired and that "this would've never happened 20-30 years ago" to which my only response would be, "hey moron" that's because back then football players were still men and would've played the game just for the fans! Not to mention the NFL what've said, get your A$$es out there or your out!
Ok I'm off my soap box...
 
When we already had 9 ball.

35-40 years ago when 9-Ball was played two-foul BIH 10-Ball was a choice for some players who had a weaker break than a potential opponent. In fact, the only 10-Ball gambling matches I ever recall seeing were between two equally matched (talent-wise) players where one of them had a superior break in 9-Ball. The weaker breaker would suggest 10-Ball as a way to match-up playing even.

10-Ball was played by the same two-foul rules as 9-Ball was back then.

I have no idea about the current 10-Ball rules or why it's played today.

RBL
 
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