What's The Shot? 14.1

Bob Jewett

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Here is my guess of what the overhead would look like and how a follow shot on the 9 will work. It's a fuller shot than it seems from the pictures.
CropperCapture[803].png


Here is the result for that particular hit.

CropperCapture[804].png
 

Bob Jewett

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As for having gotten a bad rack, this is an entirely reasonable result for a lot of racks. The don't all just fly apart in Thorsten Hohmann style. A major part of 14.1 is learning how to deal with the intermediate breaks including getting good angles, having insurance balls, hitting clusters just hard enough to mostly loosen them up, etc.

In the Virtual Pool shot above, it would probably be better to take some of the follow off the cue ball to hit the 13 so you keep the cue ball closer to the center of the table. That gives you more chances for a shot in case you can't plan on anything specific.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Confirming that it will work is a job for Dr. Dave's Rolling Carom Angle system:

Here's my version of the Rolling Carom Angle system...

- hold the cue over the OB-to-pocket line with its joint over the ghost CB
- move it sideways/parallel, keeping the joint on the tangent line, until its tip is on the CB's extended aim line
- the Rolling Carom Angle crosses the cue 8" forward of the joint (2/7 of the shaft’s 29" length)

It's easy to know where 8" is on my shaft (just about one handspan), and quick and easy to use that for accurate rolling carom angle estimates.

pj
chgo

rolling carom system (1) (cropped).png
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would probably stun 2 to corner and try land pretty straight to 1 ball. Then i would try get close to half ball hit on 9 to side. Then I would shoot 9-ball to side and try hit stack medium slow speed using side rail. 10-ball would be insurance ball that way and then you would have good chance to get good break shot after spread.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why would you not try to break them by follow from the 9 ball on the first shot?
Because what i see from pic i think cueball angle to 9-ball is not parallel to rail. More like 4-6 degrees towards left rail. I think it is not just slow roll carom to stack then. Cut is probably only 10-13 degrees because that. Your setup i see little off. My opinion might be inaccurate but that what i see. Another reason is with thin hit to stack i see danger to float to rail and behind 10 and no shot.
 

Csim

Member
From what I see you shoot the 9 over any other shot. The key here is to hit the stack softly. I would try to hit the 13 and 11 at the same time. The 13 moves out for a possible break ball and the 5 could roll 4-5 inches and be a break ball from underneath.

I think most important is that doing it that way you have more options for your next shot.

If you shoot at the 2, I understand taking that shot. You will hit the stack, but the speed will move the balls too much to control a manufactured break shot.

I don't at all understand why someone would leave the 9 for the break when the 1 is basically the same shot and has the 15 by the side for easy position.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know all too well that straight pool is for fanatical disciplinarians. Most of us have more success just going for it. :D
Actually all pool involves a certain amount of discipline, but understanding pattern play and " a ball to get to a ball" to create the correct angle position play is equally if not more important to create runs. One needs to learn to "see" the table and visualize the correct sequences - puzzle solving- so the creative and patient mind rule.
 

8cree

AzB Gold Member
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Thanks for all the feedback! Feels good to know I was at least looking at the right things, and I like some of the other options mentioned. Different perspectives are always interesting to hear.

Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving! Don't eat too much. I'm about to hit a few balls before family time.
 

Chip Roberson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different approach, Shoot the two into the corner, let the cb go over the the long rail about where the diamond below the side pocket is and cut the one into the side for the break out. That shot follows a fairly natural line to the rail, and cutting the one back into the side from there is almost a full pocket to aim at
My 2 cents issued.
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obviously, those who’s plan for cutting the 9 into the side to break the pack don’t play much on Diamond tables.
Last time I played 14.1 on Diamond table was about 2 years ago. So I don´t often play with them.
I still managed to make 100+ that time.
Many other brands have more difficult side pockets than Diamonds..
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Green as they come with straight pool. Knocking some balls around, ended up here.
What would you do? Rather what should I do?
Did someone give me a bad rack? Lol




809b68f95212099dd2f3c9a902f67185.jpg
3a861055370769684bd39260b189ece8.jpg
I'd go 2 in the corner and 9 in the side one rail into the side of the stack. Both 1 and 10 as insurance balls. You could go 2-10 off the foot rail into the bottom of the stack but that can lead to problems.

One other free piece of advice. With those 5 balls frozen in the same place as when you racked them I suspect you didn't give yourself a tight rack. You want to make sure the rack is tight so they will spread when you hit the rack.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Because what i see from pic i think cueball angle to 9-ball is not parallel to rail. More like 4-6 degrees towards left rail. I think it is not just slow roll carom to stack then. Cut is probably only 10-13 degrees because that. Your setup i see little off. My opinion might be inaccurate but that what i see. Another reason is with thin hit to stack i see danger to float to rail and behind 10 and no shot.
Yes, it is often hard to see from pictures exactly where the balls are and what cut angles are unless the pictures are along the needed line. The way I transfer shots to Virtual Pool is to put straight lines between diamonds on the picture. Even when a picture is from a funny angle, a straight line in the picture is a straight line in reality. Usually. If you put a straight line on the picture a diamond from the left rail you can see the balls are angled towards the pocket.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
The other option I see is the 2-ball in the corner setting up an angle to play the 9-ball in the side bringing the cue ball off the side rail into the left side of the pack. The good thing about that shot is you likely will have the 10-ball as a safety ball if the cue ball sticks too much to the pack. The bad thing is the angle you’ll have on the 9 in the side is not that easy shot particularly when hit at a harder pace.
This....
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Here is my guess of what the overhead would look like and how a follow shot on the 9 will work. It's a fuller shot than it seems from the pictures.
View attachment 617630

Here is the result for that particular hit.

View attachment 617631
This might work out if his layout was similar to yours in the first sim. The 8 is in the cluster as if it was racked there. Definitely not sticking out, and not to stop the CB as you have determined.

In my semi experienced opinion. If he can get a full hit on the top ball, then play it with the 1/2 as insurance if he gets stuck. If he hits the side of the pack the 8 will not hold up the CB and he'll end up caroming into the 10. That may still work out, but you have unknowns that you're hoping will work out for you.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This might work out if his layout was similar to yours in the first sim. The 8 is in the cluster as if it was racked there. Definitely not sticking out, and not to stop the CB as you have determined.

In my semi experienced opinion. If he can get a full hit on the top ball, then play it with the 1/2 as insurance if he gets stuck. If he hits the side of the pack the 8 will not hold up the CB and he'll end up caroming into the 10. That may still work out, but you have unknowns that you're hoping will work out for you.
Yes, the cluster was not tight. Also the cue-9 angle was slightly too parallel to the left cushion. In addition the 1 ball was way off, but it wasn't important at the time. Here is the perspective view that more or less matches the picture.
CropperCapture[807].png


And here is the overhead if you take some follow off the cue ball and land on the 13.

CropperCapture[808].png


And here is what can happen if you just let the cue ball roll. No shot.

CropperCapture[809].png


In between if you manage to split the 11-8, you usually end up with something but it's not as sure as landing on the 13 where you're going to have a shot on the 1 or 2 somewhere.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
In between if you manage to split the 11-8, you usually end up with something but it's not as sure as landing on the 13 where you're going to have a shot on the 1 or 2 somewhere.
Ya that's what I was thinking. I always have a hard time gauging outcomes when not actually standing at the table.

To me..., if I can hit the 13 full then yes, the 9 is a good play. Otherwise I'd either, or maybe still perfer the 2b corner to the 9b in the side pocket, to the cluster.

Different strokes... play to your strengths
 
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