What's Wrong With Making Money?

3kushn

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm probably going to get flamed on this but I don't get it.

There's a number of folks that post on here that have a problem with, Instructors particularly, who offer their services. On most occasions a poster is asking for advice or lesson and when an instructor offers advice or lessons they get grief for doing so.

What's wrong with making a living or supplementing an income teaching how to play pool and billiards? What's wrong with telling someone the truth that certain things just can't be taught with words on some forum.

What puzzles me the most is it's nearly impossible to make a living at this sport and when someone does they get vilified. Cue Makers charge too much. Case makers are robbers. The paraphernalia mfg's are in the gimmick racket. Then on the other hand it's fine and dandy to rob someone in a game of 9 ball cause gambling is what you gotta do to learn this game. If you put your house up that'll make you play better.

And we all wonder why the game is going nowhere.

Give it a break. If someone is asking for something and someone else offers to supply what's asked for, let it be. The asker doesn't have to buy. At least there's a seller. In the old days there were no sellers. Would that be better? Willie Hoppe comes to mind. He went to his grave with most of what he knew.

Done
 
3kushn said:
I'm probably going to get flamed on this but I don't get it.

There's a number of folks that post on here that have a problem with, Instructors particularly, who offer their services. On most occasions a poster is asking for advice or lesson and when an instructor offers advice or lessons they get grief for doing so.

What's wrong with making a living or supplementing an income teaching how to play pool and billiards? What's wrong with telling someone the truth that certain things just can't be taught with words on some forum.

What puzzles me the most is it's nearly impossible to make a living at this sport and when someone does they get vilified. Cue Makers charge too much. Case makers are robbers. The paraphernalia mfg's are in the gimmick racket. Then on the other hand it's fine and dandy to rob someone in a game of 9 ball cause gambling is what you gotta do to learn this game. If you put your house up that'll make you play better.

And we all wonder why the game is going nowhere.

Give it a break. If someone is asking for something and someone else offers to supply what's asked for, let it be. The asker doesn't have to buy. At least there's a seller. In the old days there were no sellers. Would that be better? Willie Hoppe comes to mind. He went to his grave with most of what he knew.

Done
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just send me $80 and I will give you an answer :) j/k
 
The grief is the way some people seem to "farm" AZ for paying students. Some of us take offense at it. It may actually be against the TOS, I'm not sure. It's my experience that the best instructors don't need to come to AZ and announce that they are looking for "work". Word of mouth, often through AZ, is all they need. Stan Shuffett hasn't done this as far as I know, nor has Joe Tucker, Little Joe, Jerry Briesath, or Mark Wilson. I have personally seen, though not on AZ, instructors who, when called out for soliciting students through a forum, tried to laugh it off and say they had so many people to teach that they couldn't keep up. Funny, they still thought it necessary to push their instruction on the forum. I don't really think it's the fact that they are doing it so much as the way they are doing it.

Edit: When someone asks a simple {to some of us} question and gets told they can get a lesson for $xxx, I think that's where some people draw the line.
 
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Pushout said:
The grief is the way some people seem to "farm" AZ for paying students. Some of us take offense at it. It may actually be against the TOS, I'm not sure. It's my experience that the best instructors don't need to come to AZ and announce that they are looking for "work". Word of mouth, often through AZ, is all they need. Stan Shuffett hasn't done this as far as I know, nor has Joe Tucker, Little Joe, Jerry Briesath, or Mark Wilson. I have personally seen, though not on AZ, instructors who, when called out for soliciting students through a forum, tried to laugh it off and say they had so many people to teach that they couldn't keep up. Funny, they still thought it necessary to push their instruction on the forum. I don't really think it's the fact that they are doing it so much as the way they are doing it.

Edit: When someone asks a simple {to some of us} question and gets told they can get a lesson for $xxx, I think that's where some people draw the line.
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Silly questions all around. You feel you deserve pay for your knowledge, then that is cool. You will either get it and be happy or be forced to re-evaluate your position. You want to give it for free, then that is cool, too. You value your position, reputaion, and resulting friendships on this forum more than the value attached to the given advice.

Things get funny when others try to attach what they feel should be a 'standard' value to certain knowledge and skills. Each of us require different amounts of time and practice to reach these levels, and it is nobody's place to tell another what that info should be worth to them. These are people who are insecure enough in their own situations and clearly have little unique to offer up in a lesson if they fear that all can be divulged beforehand on an online forum.
 
always been a mystery to me

It has always been a mystery to me that people who earn $50,000 to $100,000 a year themselves often feel that others shouldn't make a living at their chosen calling and are overcharging if they price their goods or services at a rate to provide a decent income.

The price of anything is up to the seller. The value is in the eyes of the buyer. Sometimes a book or DVD is full of valuable information and I gain a lot from it. Sometimes I gain the same amount from one or two sentences. In this case aren't the two sentences of equal value to me as the book or DVD?

I do get tired of people who are constantly pushing their product without offering much else. I even get tired of people who are posting much of value but have huge advertising signatures that they don't bother to turn off after their first post in a thread. We saw it the first time, we don't need to see it ten times in the same thread!

Hu



3kushn said:
I'm probably going to get flamed on this but I don't get it.

There's a number of folks that post on here that have a problem with, Instructors particularly, who offer their services. On most occasions a poster is asking for advice or lesson and when an instructor offers advice or lessons they get grief for doing so.

What's wrong with making a living or supplementing an income teaching how to play pool and billiards? What's wrong with telling someone the truth that certain things just can't be taught with words on some forum.

What puzzles me the most is it's nearly impossible to make a living at this sport and when someone does they get vilified. Cue Makers charge too much. Case makers are robbers. The paraphernalia mfg's are in the gimmick racket. Then on the other hand it's fine and dandy to rob someone in a game of 9 ball cause gambling is what you gotta do to learn this game. If you put your house up that'll make you play better.

And we all wonder why the game is going nowhere.

Give it a break. If someone is asking for something and someone else offers to supply what's asked for, let it be. The asker doesn't have to buy. At least there's a seller. In the old days there were no sellers. Would that be better? Willie Hoppe comes to mind. He went to his grave with most of what he knew.

Done
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At the time of this post I believe we are still a free country and are allowed to do anything and charge what we want for services, goods, etc....

That may not be the case tomorrow or the next day as the socialist idiots try to rob from the rich and give to the poor more and more each day.

I see nothing wrong with getting paid for doing something if there is demand and a market for it. Hell, I'd sell all the leaves in my yard and in my workplace parking lot for $5 each to homeless people to cover up with if there was a market for it.
 
I'd like to offer a different opinon.....the vast majority of people I know have zero issues paying good money for a quality product.....whether a case, a cue, or lessons, if I can get $300 worth of value and they get a good return, it's a win/win for both.....they make a buck and I get something for my dollar....

I think most of America is in favor of people earning a living and a fair profit......

People feel pissed when they feel like they are being bent over.....if the total costs to produce a case are $150, I got zero issues paying $300, when you figure in the costs of marketing, transpo, etc.....now, if that same case is made for just $50 with labor, and you try to charge me $300, thats when you lose my business......same thing with lessons - if you charge me $100 an hour, you better damn well impart wisdom that the guy for $25 an hour ain't giving......

People just don't want to be taken advantage of.....it's like buying gas.....two gas stations on separate corners - one charging $2 a gallon and the other at $4 a gallon for the same gas.....it's my right take issue with it, tell my friends, and refuse to give them any type of my business in the future....
 
Pushout said:
The grief is the way some people seem to "farm" AZ for paying students. Some of us take offense at it. It may actually be against the TOS, I'm not sure. It's my experience that the best instructors don't need to come to AZ and announce that they are looking for "work". Word of mouth, often through AZ, is all they need. Stan Shuffett hasn't done this as far as I know, nor has Joe Tucker, Little Joe, Jerry Briesath, or Mark Wilson. I have personally seen, though not on AZ, instructors who, when called out for soliciting students through a forum, tried to laugh it off and say they had so many people to teach that they couldn't keep up. Funny, they still thought it necessary to push their instruction on the forum. I don't really think it's the fact that they are doing it so much as the way they are doing it.

Edit: When someone asks a simple {to some of us} question and gets told they can get a lesson for $xxx, I think that's where some people draw the line.
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The smartest ones stay away from AZ Billiards, sorry to say. :o
JoeyA
 
corvette1340 said:
At the time of this post I believe we are still a free country and are allowed to do anything and charge what we want for services, goods, etc....

That may not be the case tomorrow or the next day as the socialist idiots try to rob from the rich and give to the poor more and more each day.

I see nothing wrong with getting paid for doing something if there is demand and a market for it. Hell, I'd sell all the leaves in my yard and in my workplace parking lot for $5 each to homeless people to cover up with if there was a market for it.
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Have those migrant landscape workers play you some pool for their labor on your lawn and after you beat them for their dough, tell them you will play them double or nothing and have them bag up the leaves and sell them for mulch. Then take the extra earnings and have a party. j/k
JoeyA
 
I can let you know that Mark Wilson reads this site but never posts here. That is a shame. He is very knowledgable and has great ideas not only on the teaching of pool but also on pool itself.

To the original poster, although you are advertising for free lessons (if in fact they are free and if in fact you are qualified to give them) - I find your signature line offensive. The bold, large font used because what you have is so important you don't want me to miss it?? I know, I know - I can turn this option off so I don't have to see them but there are other signatures that I would like to read.
 
watchez said:
I can let you know that Mark Wilson reads this site but never posts here. That is a shame. He is very knowledgable and has great ideas not only on the teaching of pool but also on pool itself.

To the original poster, although you are advertising for free lessons (if in fact they are free and if in fact you are qualified to give them) - I find your signature line offensive. The bold, large font used because what you have is so important you don't want me to miss it?? I know, I know - I can turn this option off so I don't have to see them but there are other signatures that I would like to read.
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Watchez,
The man's signature line was "tongue in cheek" FWIW.

JoeyA
 
I know, I know

Just the other day, I went up to a player and said, "Gimme 20 bucks and I will tell you what's wrong with your stroke, or I will just play you for 50.

He looked at me funny, go figure .... :o
 
Pushout said:
It's my experience that the best instructors don't need to come to AZ and announce that they are looking for "work". Word of mouth, often through AZ, is all they need. Stan Shuffett hasn't done this as far as I know, nor has Joe Tucker, Little Joe, Jerry Briesath, or Mark Wilson.
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I respect your valued opinion, but almost take offense in that I would have never meet some of the people you mention here WITHOUT the AZ. I guarantee I would have never taken Scott Lee's class, and meet there over a half dozen other AZers who also attended.

I would also NEVER have purchased Joe Tucker's excellent 'Third Eye' or DVD on break shots, either.

Not just propaganda. I would have never bought a Sledgehammer break cue, attended the Valley Forge Expo center's 'Super Billiards Expo' or the 14.1 Straight Pool Worlds tournaments.

It's just a fact I would have never known about these from word of mouth of friends, family, billiard folks on my APA team, or my local pool halls about these people or events.
 
3kushn said:
I'm probably going to get flamed on this but I don't get it.

There's a number of folks that post on here that have a problem with, Instructors particularly, who offer their services. On most occasions a poster is asking for advice or lesson and when an instructor offers advice or lessons they get grief for doing so.

What's wrong with making a living or supplementing an income teaching how to play pool and billiards? What's wrong with telling someone the truth that certain things just can't be taught with words on some forum.

What puzzles me the most is it's nearly impossible to make a living at this sport and when someone does they get vilified. Cue Makers charge too much. Case makers are robbers. The paraphernalia mfg's are in the gimmick racket. Then on the other hand it's fine and dandy to rob someone in a game of 9 ball cause gambling is what you gotta do to learn this game. If you put your house up that'll make you play better.

And we all wonder why the game is going nowhere.

Give it a break. If someone is asking for something and someone else offers to supply what's asked for, let it be. The asker doesn't have to buy. At least there's a seller. In the old days there were no sellers. Would that be better? Willie Hoppe comes to mind. He went to his grave with most of what he knew.

Done
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Good Post!

It always amuses me when a pool player tells someone else that what they are doing is bad for pool :confused: I mean, gambling is illegal isnt it?

I know there are alot of EXTREMELY good players, and hustlers at these pool halls that are druggies...and I mean some TOP Players! Yes, I know this first hand. Its just funny to me when someone of this caliber tells someone else that basically cheating someone out of money is bad..:grin: I guess drughead pool players have ethics..lol

I know there are alot of extremely talented pool players that do not do drugs, and I applaud them for that. I have never dont any illegal drugs in my life, and never will.....basically I am too chicken chit of the consequenses, Id be that 1 person that dies from smoking a joint:eek:

I guess pool is so clouded in illegal activities, it will never come out of the darkness no matter how hard we try. I for one that would LOVE for pool players to be recognised as the athletes that they are "given that they are clean"

I support pool 100% and if people wanna teach others to play pool....who the hell are we to tell you that you cant teach them

Hmm....I dont really know where that all came from..I guess I just had to vent :grin:
 
watchez said:
I can let you know that Mark Wilson reads this site but never posts here. That is a shame. He is very knowledgable and has great ideas not only on the teaching of pool but also on pool itself.

To the original poster, although you are advertising for free lessons (if in fact they are free and if in fact you are qualified to give them) - I find your signature line offensive. The bold, large font used because what you have is so important you don't want me to miss it?? I know, I know - I can turn this option off so I don't have to see them but there are other signatures that I would like to read.
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I agree with you WATCHEZ...HUGE Sig Lines should not be that huge..
 
Gregg said:
I respect your valued opinion, but almost take offense in that I would have never meet some of the people you mention here WITHOUT the AZ.
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I think you misunderstand what I was saying. I bought Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets book without ever hearing about it here, I just saw it in the pool room back in NY when we were there for a visit. I heard about the Third Eye here, though. Again, it's how it's done here that concerns some people and you often have to read between the lines. You might want to reread my original post. I cited a partial example above and you might be surprised if you knew the full story. I don't think that would have been allowed here.
 
Pushout said:
I think you misunderstand what I was saying. I bought Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets book without ever hearing about it here, I just saw it in the pool room back in NY when we were there for a visit. I heard about the Third Eye here, though. Again, it's how it's done here that concerns some people and you often have to read between the lines. You might want to reread my original post. I cited a partial example above and you might be surprised if you knew the full story. I don't think that would have been allowed here.
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<dripping with sarcasm>Oh, so you are going to 'tell me so' with only half the story???</dripping with sarcasm>

Spill the beans!!

LOL :grin:
 
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