What's your Shot??

Shoot the 4 in the side with a little top left. About a half a tip above and to the left with a firm medium hit :smile:
 
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Neil said:
I feel that the two rail route I took, or the draw off the 5 are about equal. Equal when you know HOW to aim them. I went the 2 rail route, it went as shown, the cb came in just behind the 7, lightly bumped it out, and the cb ended up just off the rail for a duck on the 6. Yes, I will be the first to admit that there was a certain amount of luck involved, but it was also planned luck.

This is what I did- I first decided on the two rail route, I'll get into why in the next post. Looking at the diagram, you know see an added 3 ball, 10 ball, and 1 ball. The one is the spot I want to hit by the 7. The 3 ball obviously is the ghost ball. The ten ball lies as close as I can guess to halfway on the line between the spot on the rail I want to hit by the 7, which is the 1 ball, and the ghost ball. I then take that spot, (the 10 ball) and find the angle with my cue to the pocket I want to go around. I then transfer that angle with my cue to come through the ghost ball, and see just where that hits the rail. I mark that spot in my mind.

Next, I look at the tangent line off the 5 ball, and see just where that hits the rail. In this case, they happen to be the same spot! Makes everything easier! If they weren't the same spot, I would now know if I needed draw or follow to hit the "10 ball" spot. That spot is where I want the cb to hit the rail.

Now, on paper, this works great. Different tables, different conditions, can change it up a little. But, the system works pretty accurately, and gives you something to actually aim for instead of just guessing. In my case, it just so happened to work out perfectly this time. It could just as well of hit the 7 instead of the rail, and I might even of got hooked.

This system, once you are used to it, only takes seconds to do. And, it gives you a definite aim point instead of just a guess that might be clouded at the moment by pressure in the game.

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This is interesting...I'm eager to try it. Curious, does it account for the english the cue ball will pick up as it hits the rails? The way you diagrammed it, the line the cueball takes off the 2nd rail is parallel to the line going into the first rail. This would normally not be the case unless some inside english was used. Normally the cue ball would pick up some running english off the first rail, which would translate to a slightly wider than parallel line off the 2nd rail. Just curious if this is due to a casually drawn diagram, or if this system sort of works out that issue on its own.

I saw you mention "Joe's videos". Did you mean Joe Villalpando? If so I have his kicking video, and I must say that his systems work very well and accurately. Seems to work quite well on a wide variety of tables. I would check it out, I think you would like it!

Anyway, thanks for the thought provoking post!

KMRUNOUT

Edit: I should have read through the whole thread before posting!
 
You could go after the cluster off the 4B in a VERY reliable way, but I still don't like it for the reason I stated in my last post...and that it will leave you long on the 5B (as well as at a steep angle).

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mosconiac said:
Since we are playing the ghost, we can't choose to cut the 4B to the side rail (just below the side) & leave our opponent on a 4B-8B combo...CB frozen to the end rail.

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This layout is the one i would go for but i think most people dont have that good of control of the cueball to break out the 6,7. I jsut like how the balls will spread out after the hit.

There are a few different ways to free the problem balls but again i would go with the diagram above :thumbup:
 
how to break out

If it was me i would play hard bottom left off the four ball to head rail and down table for the breakout. If you wait and do it on the 5 to much chance it doesnt roll to a good shot if you break it out on the 4 you can use the 5 to get back in position. Actually it would be better to hard left with a little bottom.

jmho
monty
 
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quadrary said:
If it was me i would play hard bottom left off the four ball to head rail and down table for the breakout. If you wait and do it on the 5 to much chance it doesnt roll to a good shot if you break it out on the 4 you can use the 5 to get back in position. Actually it would be better to hard left with a little bottom.

jmho
monty
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The 4 ball is not an option if you're trying to make the best out of a very unfavorable situation. You gotta play the 7-8 diamonds off the five for the best chance at getting out. I like how the 8 and 9 are sitting so I'll come off the four for a bank for the breakup. Under game conditions I would take Niel's route, but it's the ghost so I like taking a few banks here and there when I get a chance.
 
Neil said:
try it 5 times, and let us know how many times you broke up the 6-7 that way. I think, at least for me, it's a pretty low percentage shot.

I just went down and tried it. Good luck.;) Mosconiacs looks good on paper, but when you set it up as shown on a table, good luck even hitting the rail on the side that the 4 goes in. It can be done, but you sure aren't hitting it as far down as he showed!
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You live in a poolhall?
 
I think I would probably play it the way mosconiac diagrammed, but would play position on the five like neil, and not go two rails, if i over hit it, the cue ball would come off the rail, and probably leave me in descent position. I think even if you hit the rail trying to break them up off the five, you would still get the job done.
 
Just so we are clear I was talking about the shape on the 5 ball. I would hit the 4 ball with just a little bit of low left (almost center) to get the drift and bounce off the bottom rail for the desired shape on the 5 ball.
 
Neil said:
try it 5 times, and let us know how many times you broke up the 6-7 that way. I think, at least for me, it's a pretty low percentage shot.

I just went down and tried it. Good luck.;) Mosconiacs looks good on paper, but when you set it up as shown on a table, good luck even hitting the rail on the side that the 4 goes in. It can be done, but you sure aren't hitting it as far down as he showed!
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Neil just tried it hit 3 of 5 and had decent shot on 5 twice third break out cue went to foot rail and out behind 7if you use to much left you will come up shot the hard meant stroke not english to shallow out angle off head rail. That said the main thing is i always want to break the cluster before the shot where a piece of the cluster is my next shot. The table also plays a major role here as i did this on a gold crown with standard side pockets and cheat the 4 as far to the right side of pocket as possible to thin out the hit.
 
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The position Neil is showing is a pattern most people should learn and know. It is a common 2/3 rail pattern that is played in almost every rack. It allows a natural route to your target with minimal manipulation of the cb and not forcing the cb around the table. And it is very accurate.
 
sorry Neil

I think i set the shot up with a thinner cut on the 4 than the one you had in your diagram my bad second coice float down table close to even with the 5 for a tangent line shot to breakout and adjust with top and side as needed. Call me moron the cut looked thinner first time i glanced at the diagram and couldnt figure out why you thought it a very low percentage.
 
Should I be embarrased to think of cutting 4 down the rail-cb back across
to break out 6&7? Believe if I miss the break out still have a second chance with the 5. 1.2,3,4 or no rails!

Really like the post about "Just knowing". Confidence is very valueable.
 
duckie said:
How would I know? Well, in the opening scenes of the Last Dragon when the student is going through his martial art practice routine, his master was shooting arrows at him to which the student would chop before they hit him. The arrows had a red band on them.

The master shot one arrow with a blue band to which the student caught the arrow instead of breaking it.

The master asked of the student "How did you know that was the blue arrow?"

The student replied " I do not know how I knew, I just knew."

The master replied " I can not teach you no more. You have reached the highest level....to know without knowing."

So, you just have to know what to do based on hours, hours and hours of practice with some gut instincts thrown in to boot.
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This should be a mantra for all!
 
Neil said:
I feel that the two rail route I took, or the draw off the 5 are about equal. Equal when you know HOW to aim them. I went the 2 rail route, it went as shown, the cb came in just behind the 7, lightly bumped it out, and the cb ended up just off the rail for a duck on the 6. Yes, I will be the first to admit that there was a certain amount of luck involved, but it was also planned luck.

This is what I did- I first decided on the two rail route, I'll get into why in the next post. Looking at the diagram, you know see an added 3 ball, 10 ball, and 1 ball. The one is the spot I want to hit by the 7. The 3 ball obviously is the ghost ball. The ten ball lies as close as I can guess to halfway on the line between the spot on the rail I want to hit by the 7, which is the 1 ball, and the ghost ball. I then take that spot, (the 10 ball) and find the angle with my cue to the pocket I want to go around. I then transfer that angle with my cue to come through the ghost ball, and see just where that hits the rail. I mark that spot in my mind.

Next, I look at the tangent line off the 5 ball, and see just where that hits the rail. In this case, they happen to be the same spot! Makes everything easier! If they weren't the same spot, I would now know if I needed draw or follow to hit the "10 ball" spot. That spot is where I want the cb to hit the rail.

Now, on paper, this works great. Different tables, different conditions, can change it up a little. But, the system works pretty accurately, and gives you something to actually aim for instead of just guessing. In my case, it just so happened to work out perfectly this time. It could just as well of hit the 7 instead of the rail, and I might even of got hooked.

This system, once you are used to it, only takes seconds to do. And, it gives you a definite aim point instead of just a guess that might be clouded at the moment by pressure in the game.

CueTable Help

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Good post Neil. I have another method I use to find the short rail contact point which is a little easier for me.

I use the the Tom Rossman, [a.k.a Dr. Cue] 2+system for finding the contact point off the 5 ball. LINK

You would find that you would need to come into the 2nd diamond where the 7 ball is located in order to break out the cluster. Counting diamonds up the table, you arrive at a 3 diamond count (this puts you at 1 diamond past the side pocket. You stop there so you don't go past the object ball [5 ball]. Since the count is 3, you go to the 3 count on the short rail, (which is 1 diamond from the corner pocket). Taking a parallel shift to the 5 ball, that is your contact point. {basically the same as yours]. A little practice will give you the correct amount of english to use to arrive at the destination.

You're right though. Always good to go in with a plan.
 
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