When does english reverse?

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bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
When does english reverse?

I had the situation in this picture this morning. I figured I'd use low/left to draw the CB back to the cushion and rebound with more angle than a mirror image would achieve (trying to get decent position on the 2-ball).

But instead, the CB rebounded off the cushion almost parallel with the headstring...the exact opposite of what I expected. I didn't have time to try it again to see for myself, so I'm turning to my AZB experts.

I seem to recall hearing that english reverses in certain shots. When does english reverse? Or, did I just mis-hit the CB?

rktu.jpg
 
With the image you have shown bottom left should come off the rail parallel with the headstring. Think about it this way. If looking from above hitting the ball with left makes the ball spin clockwise. This causes that ball to turn left from the natural line when it hits that rail. The same goes for putting right on the ball. When I am going to try and draw the ball into the rail I know that I need to hit the cue on the opposite side of where I want the ball to go since I am causing the cue ball to draw.
 
If you were facing that rail, would you use left or right? That is your answer. It seems like the english reverses only because you are facing the opposite direction.
 
Right english would have been correct.

However with the two ball positioned where it is and the slight angle you show...I probably would have hit about a tip above center with left english...shot to the right side of the pocket and went forward and came off the long rail for position.
 
Think of gears when applying english. If the first gear (CB) is turning clockwise then the next gear it comes in contact with (OB) will turn counterclockwise. The spin transfers from one ball to the next in a similar fashion but diminishes greatly with each ball in succession. (and the dirtier that balls are the better the spin will transfer.
 
bdorman said:
When does english reverse?

I had the situation in this picture this morning. I figured I'd use low/left to draw the CB back to the cushion and rebound with more angle than a mirror image would achieve (trying to get decent position on the 2-ball).

But instead, the CB rebounded off the cushion almost parallel with the headstring...the exact opposite of what I expected. I didn't have time to try it again to see for myself, so I'm turning to my AZB experts.

I seem to recall hearing that english reverses in certain shots. When does english reverse? Or, did I just mis-hit the CB?

rktu.jpg
Click to expand...

Another thing that may help you when shooting a bank with spin is this (Not a combo bank) , Applying outside english will widen the angle and inside english will shorten it.
 
Easy way to remember: If you are REVERSING the cb off the rail, REVERSE the english also. If you want the cb to go left off the rail, use right english, and vice versa.
 
While there a few instances it will come up, I don't necessarily see what playing an extra foot of shape closer to the cut will accomplish...will it be a bit easier? sure...but have confidence you can cut the ball from either spot so you don't miss the previous shot trying to play perfect shape.
 
Spimp13 said:
While there a few instances it will come up, I don't necessarily see what playing an extra foot of shape closer to the cut will accomplish...will it be a bit easier? sure...but have confidence you can cut the ball from either spot so you don't miss the previous shot trying to play perfect shape.
Click to expand...

While I agree that if the angle is the same, it makes little difference to me if it's 1 foot away or 5, but when the angle changes (because of distance) than one inch can make all the difference for me.
 
Cdryden said:
While I agree that if the angle is the same, it makes little difference to me if it's 1 foot away or 5, but when the angle changes (because of distance) than one inch can make all the difference for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I can agree to this. I just see people try to play perfect shape on shots like this which is all fine and dandy if it works but you risk missing the initial shot for 1-2 feet closer. If I am in stroke I have no problems going for the better angle. If I am a bit shakey then just pocketing balls will help me more then attempting things like this.
 
Spimp13 said:
While there a few instances it will come up, I don't necessarily see what playing an extra foot of shape closer to the cut will accomplish...will it be a bit easier? sure...but have confidence you can cut the ball from either spot so you don't miss the previous shot trying to play perfect shape.
Click to expand...

by any chance would you like to play some one pocket....i can fly to iowa.
 
Spimp13 said:
While there a few instances it will come up, I don't necessarily see what playing an extra foot of shape closer to the cut will accomplish...will it be a bit easier? sure...but have confidence you can cut the ball from either spot so you don't miss the previous shot trying to play perfect shape.
Click to expand...

I do follow that maxim pretty religiously. Even with an LD shaft, I only use english if the CB is within 2-3 diamonds of the OB. More often than not, I'll pass on using english and take the more difficult follow-up shot.

But in this case: 1) I was straight in on the OB and close to it, 2) my lack of speed control could have left me with an impossible cut on the two (although my "insurance" was that I'm pretty good on the table-length banks), and 3) I just wanted to try it.

Many thanks for the replies. I now know the right answer, although I'm still trying to get my ahead around the physics of it. Kind of counter-intuitive.
 
Spimp13 said:
Yeah...I can agree to this. I just see people try to play perfect shape on shots like this which is all fine and dandy if it works but you risk missing the initial shot for 1-2 feet closer. If I am in stroke I have no problems going for the better angle. If I am a bit shakey then just pocketing balls will help me more then attempting things like this.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. Drawing to the rail with english to widen the angle and get down (or up) table when you are straight on a ball is an important recovery shot that is part of any good player's standard arsenal. A player at a high C level or above should definitely be working to place this shot in the 'no problem' category, IMO.
 
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When in doubt, just go to the other side of the table and face the rail you want to draw into. then look at what english you would have to put on the cueball if you were just hitting it into that rail to either widen, or shorten the angle. Go back to your shot and do it.


bdorman said:
I do follow that maxim pretty religiously. Even with an LD shaft, I only use english if the CB is within 2-3 diamonds of the OB. More often than not, I'll pass on using english and take the more difficult follow-up shot.

But in this case: 1) I was straight in on the OB and close to it, 2) my lack of speed control could have left me with an impossible cut on the two (although my "insurance" was that I'm pretty good on the table-length banks), and 3) I just wanted to try it.

Many thanks for the replies. I now know the right answer, although I'm still trying to get my ahead around the physics of it. Kind of counter-intuitive.
Click to expand...
 
If the cueball hits the cushion with draw/screw the spin will have the opposite effect. (ie- right side will cause the CB to go to the left)
 
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