Where does the cue ball go here

KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
Where will the cue ball hit the bottom rail on this shot, IF we used the same amount of follow, SAME pace, same everything, except with no left english as diagrammed?

The same spot? Longer off the OB? Or shorter?

CueTable Help

 
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About there, based on a soft shot.....you can manipulate where it hits the bottom rail with follow as you increase pace, it should go further right along the rail.....is this a follow-up on another post, I am confused???
 
Big Perm said:
About there, based on a soft shot.....you can manipulate where it hits the bottom rail with follow as you increase pace, it should go further right along the rail.....is this a follow-up on another post, I am confused???
Click to expand...

I edited my OP to include "same pace, same everything". This question is solely @ how english on this shot affects the line the cue ball takes after impact.

Thanks BP.
 
Same place. Sidespin has very little, if any, effect on the cueball as it travels down table. Once the cueball strikes a rail then the sidespin will be very noticable....SPF=randyg
 
With no left english the angle off the end rail will be "lengthened" (i.e., the angle between the rail and the path of the cue ball will be smaller than what is shown for the same shot with left english) and the cue ball will hit the long cushion sooner (nearer the side pocket). I would call this having the cue ball go shorter, but those terms are not used the same way by all players.

Mark

Edit: Sorry, I misread the original post. The first rail contact will be virtually the same.
 
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KoolKat9Lives said:
Where will the cue ball hit the bottom rail on this shot, IF we used the same amount of follow, SAME pace, same everything, except with no left english as diagrammed?

The same spot? Longer off the OB? Or shorter?

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

The spin itself won't make any difference in how the CB travels, but...

Hitting without inside spin means you'll have to hit the OB a little more full. This can make the CB go wider or steeper depending on the cut angle - in this case (right around a half ball hit) it's hard to tell which. Either way it's a minor difference unless you're hitting pretty hard.

pj
chgo
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Where will the cue ball hit the bottom rail on this shot, IF we used the same amount of follow, SAME pace, same everything, except with no left english as diagrammed?

The same spot? Longer off the OB? Or shorter?
Click to expand...


If you aren't throwing the object ball, then both shots should hit the bottom rail at the same point.

If you put the a throw stroke on it, then the object ball would come out slightly farther to the right (higher up on the wei table) because you would have to cut the ball slightly more to accommodate the throw.

It's my understanding that top and bottom affect the angle the cue ball leaves the object ball. Left and right control the cue ball off a rail. You really can't change the exit angle much with left/right except in the case of throwing the ball... Even then it is minimal, at best.

matta
 
If the same amount of 'Top' spin was applied on both shots, then it would contact the rail at the same spot.

In reality, as you are adding side spin, you're probably putting a little less 'top' spin on it, as your cue tip goes to the side of the cue ball.
Will this be enough to make a 'noticeable' difference? That will depend on how much spin/speed you're giving the shots.

The short answer is, it should not be much, if any difference, as side spin does not influence the top spin, or the angle at which the CB will leave the OB.
 
What he said...:D This is detailed quite effectively in our instructional dvd, Play Better Pool, Vol. 1.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

randyg said:
Same place. Sidespin has very little, if any, effect on the cueball as it travels down table. Once the cueball strikes a rail then the sidespin will be very noticable....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...
 
the ball hits the rail in the exact same place, assuming you cut the 6 the exact same amount in both shots.

Realizing this is huge. It's one of the most important things that separate the men from the fishes. A lot of players never get out of "C player" status because they refuse to understand that putting sidespin on the CB doesn't make it come off the object ball more "sideways". I'm working with someone right now who is still trying to come to grips with this mind-exploding concept.

Once players figure this out fully, they start the long hard road to learning how to sink balls with center ball instead of the sidespin they've been using for years.
 
CreeDo...Here's an excellent test, to demonstrate this concept. Even a moron will immediately grasp it...

Place the OB on the foot spot. Place the CB a foot away, with a very slight angle (line up the two balls so that the line of centers is aimed at the outside point of the corner pocket). This is a 15 degree cut. Have the player shoot at dead center CB, and skid the CB into the OB, cutting the OB into the corner. The CB will head straight for the side pocket. Then have them shoot the exact same shot, the same way, but now aiming at 9:00 or 3:00. The CB will still head straight for the side pocket, this time spinning like a top. Hope this helps. This is a question that I ask EVERY student. It's amazing how many don't know this concept. BTW, it doesn't change if you make it a thin cut either...it's just easier to pocket the slight cut. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

CreeDo said:
the ball hits the rail in the exact same place, assuming you cut the 6 the exact same amount in both shots.

Realizing this is huge. It's one of the most important things that separate the men from the fishes. A lot of players never get out of "C player" status because they refuse to understand that putting sidespin on the CB doesn't make it come off the object ball more "sideways". I'm working with someone right now who is still trying to come to grips with this mind-exploding concept.
Once players figure this out fully, they start the long hard road to learning how to sink balls with center ball instead of the sidespin they've been using for years.
Click to expand...
 
matta said:
It's my understanding that top and bottom affect the angle the cue ball leaves the object ball. Left and right control the cue ball off a rail.
matta
Click to expand...

Your understanding is correct.

If you have ever shot a straight in shot with bottom right or left, and had the cue ball stop dead and just spin like a top, you have seen this concept in practice.

Steve
 
Scott, I will try that. Usually the way I try to illustrate it is much less effective. I set up a short easy side pocket shot, straight in, and slam it with left spin. What I'm trying to do is get the CB to stop dead and spin like a top clockwise. But due to aiming inaccuracies, squirt, etc. it always moves a bit sideways. Your method sounds 'safer' to prove the theory.
 
CreeDo:
...putting sidespin on the CB doesn't make it come off the object ball more "sideways".
Click to expand...

This conventional wisdom is mostly true (it's true in this case), but with sidespin and draw the OB can come off more sideways because you're hitting downward and putting some masse spin on. You have to jack up purposely to make it a really visible amount, but a little bit can surprise you in tight quarters even with a normally "level" cue.

pj
chgo
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Where will the cue ball hit the bottom rail on this shot, IF we used the same amount of follow, SAME pace, same everything, except with no left english as diagrammed?

The same spot? Longer off the OB? Or shorter?

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

i think it'll come off a hair shorter. not a lot maybe 1/2 an inch or so
 
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